Idk why people are expecting TLOAS to have a renaissance like Red/TTPD is experiencing currently I fear there truly is nothing left to unpack from the album/era.

Oh My Jesus Only Sings His Favorite Hymns the smash that got away.

my boy would have been an easy top 10

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Europe

Shouldn't Liz Taylor be at least top15 with the vinyls?

8 hours ago, dreww said:

Idk why people are expecting TLOAS to have a renaissance like Red/TTPD is experiencing currently I fear there truly is nothing left to unpack from the album/era.

I'm pretty sure it will go down as Taylor's most polarising release when all said and done.

10 hours ago, gagacasanova said:

Oh My Jesus Only Sings His Favorite Hymns the smash that got away.

That should've been the second single from TTPD.

2 hours ago, Peroxide said:

I'm pretty sure it will go down as Taylor's most polarising release when all said and done.

Maybe but people are still doing WAY too much about it. Outside of the lyrics from Eldest Daughter i fail to see what's supposedly so bad about the album.

11 minutes ago, Enrique523 said:

Maybe but people are still doing WAY too much about it. Outside of the lyrics from Eldest Daughter i fail to see what's supposedly so bad about the album.

It's a Taylor Swift album release… it's very rare for anyone to act normal about that - everything is exaggerated and made to feel very, very intense. Taylor is also in the unenviable position of being at career peak and having eleven other albums to compare with Showgirl.

(Apologies gals - Showgirl negativity incoming)

That being said I agree with a lot of the criticism levied at Showgirl… and if I went into every single point this post would turn into an essay.

Also - a good chunk of us were begging her to run back to Max ever since Lover came out so I really thought we were in for something special.

I didn't think Lover or Midnights were sensational pop records by any stretch either but there was enough meat on the bone for me to enjoy and appreciate. Showgirl however… we have maybe 2 or 3 great songs that's really about it.

Edited April 20Apr 20 by Peroxide

Watching people who have dragged Taylor left right and sideways jumping through hoops to justify why Olivia using the same chart tactics (that everyone else also uses) is okay when it isn't for Taylor .

The insane obsession people have with Taylor and the double standards are crazy. Everyone competes when they're competitive. The difference is Taylor is competitive much more often. There's a good chance Olivia won't have another opportunity to compete for number 1 with this single (or any others if she doesn't do a second pre-release), so she has to compete now.

The idea that people wouldn't be BEGGING their faves to close extremely small gaps like Taylor did with Ophelia or to snare the summit with sales like Opalite if they were capable is laughable.

8 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

Watching people who have dragged Taylor left right and sideways jumping through hoops to justify why Olivia using the same chart tactics (that everyone else also uses) is okay when it isn't for Taylor .

The insane obsession people have with Taylor and the double standards are crazy. Everyone competes when they're competitive. The difference is Taylor is competitive much more often. There's a good chance Olivia won't have another opportunity to compete for number 1 with this single (or any others if she doesn't do a second pre-release), so she has to compete now.

The idea that people wouldn't be BEGGING their faves to close extremely small gaps like Taylor did with Ophelia or to snare the summit with sales like Opalite if they were capable is laughable.

This bothers me too because it's not just Taylor… it's a case of "don't hate the player hate the game" sort of thing. Variants, remixes and last minute drops to go number one are industry standard and that's not going away unless Billboard changes the rules.

I think the only thing Taylor did which gave me a bit of an eye roll were the digital releases of TTPD with differing cover art… I mean, I know K-Pop acts do it too but it just felt the slightest bit icky.

I'd like the industry to adopt what Ellie did with her Higher Than Heaven release and double down on sustainable, recycle friendly packaging. I really do think Taylor has enough power to shift the standard for the wider industry if she started implementing something like that… and hopefully it would mitigate some of the criticism she gets.

2 hours ago, Peroxide said:

I'm pretty sure it will go down as Taylor's most polarising release when all said and done.

I agree. I do think they're doing way too much, though. It's not her best work in my opinion either, but it's certainly not bad at all.

6 hours ago, jgamgr said:

Shouldn't Liz Taylor be at least top15 with the vinyls?

My guess is sales are bombing, it was super limited with like 50 copies per store, or they don't have any sales data yet.

Poetry and talent if we had to make it about ONE song

I will keep repeating it until it goes viral and hits #1

I see some people are jumping on the "swifties are a cult!!11!!1" "swifties hate poc!11!1" train now that their fave is on the way out

16 hours ago, dreww said:

Idk why people are expecting TLOAS to have a renaissance like Red/TTPD is experiencing currently I fear there truly is nothing left to unpack from the album/era.

If reputation can get some revisionism, so can Showgirl, no shade

Another snark sub member exposed

4 hours ago, By the Water said:

If reputation can get some revisionism, so can Showgirl, no shade

I fear no album with eldest daughter / wood / cancelled! lyrics is getting any type of revision

21 hours ago, dreww said:

Idk why people are expecting TLOAS to have a renaissance like Red/TTPD is experiencing currently I fear there truly is nothing left to unpack from the album/era.

While I don't expect a the same renaissance as Red, I fully expect TLOAS having some resurgnce just from people starting to act normal about it. Red and TTPD have deeper cuts that became fan favorites which I don't think will happen with TLOAS. However, lets not pretend that Father Figure and Ruin the Friendship are not pretty great. I personally love the chorus of Wood and the title track is one of her better album closers.

Edited April 21Apr 21 by byzantium

16 minutes ago, byzantium said:

However, lets not pretend that Father Figure and Ruin the Friendship are pretty great. I personally love the chorus of Wood and the title track is one of her better album closers.

I can't tell, are you saying that they are good or bad songs (Father Figure and Ruin The Friendship)?

1 minute ago, Cole said:

I can't tell, are you saying that they are good or bad songs (Father Figure and Ruin The Friendship)?

Fair. I edited it to clarify. Overall the TLOAS is a pretty solid album and FF and RTF are among the best on the record.

showgirl is definitely MUCH less substantial overall, with only like 5 or so good ass morsels. but most of the album that doesnt rlly stack up to the rest of her discography still has crazy hooks, rlly good couplets and lyrical bits, or nice production. the only song i dont return to is eldest daughter but even that has a few shining moments lowkey

Im still confused why she moved from this era and these are my theories

1. Too busy with the wedding thing and all the planning. She will be back once she's done with that
2. Taylor is not happy with the travis thing. He's not the one for her so she doesnt feel like giving big love to the record. Is over for this era
3. She has so much respect for Elizabeth taylor. So she feels like the footage was the best choice. She's movin to a new single soon

i honestly feel like she should have a deluxe-new version of the album.
Theres room for more...

Edited April 21Apr 21 by AvadaKedavra

5 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Fair. I edited it to clarify. Overall the TLOAS is a pretty solid album and FF and RTF are among the best on the record.

Oh I see.

I'm currently working on my rating of her discography. I like to do that every now and then and see how thing shift around. Although my opinion on the album is still - when compared to her other albums in her discography - her worst, I have started to shift my framing and how I perceive the album as less of a serious analysis of a body of work and instead as just a fun album she wanted to put out, which has allowed me to take it less seriously, I suppose. That's generally not like how I engaging with music, though, and why I find her to be such an appealing artist.

Edited April 21Apr 21 by Cole

4 minutes ago, AvadaKedavra said:

Im still confused why she moved from this era and these are my theories

1. Too busy with the wedding thing and all the planning. She will be back once she's done with that
2. Taylor is not happy with the travis thing. He's not the one for her so she doesnt feel like giving big love to the record. Is over for this era
3. She has so much respect for Elizabeth taylor. So she feels like the footage was the best choice. She's movin to a new single soon

i honestly feel like she should have a deluxe-new version of the album.
Theres room for more...

She is also an established artist on her 12th album. Not doing a months-long album campaign is very normal, especially nowadays. Also, the economics don't work for music videos like they did before streaming. Artists both lose money and do not receive much promo from them anymore. So I feel like we are lucky we even received two from this era.

5 minutes ago, AvadaKedavra said:

Im still confused why she moved from this era and these are my theories

1. Too busy with the wedding thing and all the planning. She will be back once she's done with that
2. Taylor is not happy with the travis thing. He's not the one for her so she doesnt feel like giving big love to the record. Is over for this era
3. She has so much respect for Elizabeth taylor. So she feels like the footage was the best choice. She's movin to a new single soon

i honestly feel like she should have a deluxe-new version of the album.
Theres room for more...

I think its a strategic decision. She sees that Elizabeth Taylor isn't sticking, and probably perceived that to be the most likely song to become a hit. I don't think she's pushing because she's a business woman who is aware of the public perception of her and she sees there is waning interest (despite still a massive amount of streams). Rather than losing the grace of the GP and market, I think she wants everything to be in her favor when she releases TS13. Commercial and critical acclaim, with no fatigue.

She has Ophelia still pulling absolutely massive numbers, drawing the interest and doing its job for the GP. I think its a smart business decision to just let it be, let Ophelia continue to do the numbers its doing, let Opalite and Elizabeth Taylor do whatever they will do, without any additional pushes or marketing.

Pushing further for an album that has had declining singles only would make it harder for her to land when she releases material from TS13, which she will want to be absolutely massive given how important the number 13 is to her. At least that is what I speculate, anyway.