DevilsRollTheDice

I think I would rather AOC primary CS than run for President. Then I'd match Ossoff with someone more progressive. I feel like that would do the most good/ensure a major win and even bigger congressional majorities.

This is a great response. I agree than 2028 could be an opportunity to push left in the presidential, we'll just have to wait and see how the environment is then. There are also many considerations. While a further left candidate like AOC might stand a better chance in 28 than usual, running someone like Ossoff might also give us significantly bigger congressional majorities.

This is ****ing crazy. King ****.

Or maybe it's because fewer Americans identify with the DSA than they do with MAGA. By a substantial margin. We have so much to celebrate but some people need to wake up a little and understand what a Democratic coalition looks like moving forward. I know we'll be back to people saying not to vote in two years because they'll be pissed about moderate Dems not giving them everything they want, but the alternative to moderate Dems in swing states is Republicans, not a secret cell of leftist voters.

Haley Stevens was an awful candidate. She would've ran behind for different reasons. But AES is far from the only evidence that normie/progressive/moderate/use whichever word you like—the Dems ATRL doesn't like—outperformed the left flank. In some cases, the difference was pretty enormous.

Y'all will jump through any hoop to fit the narrative you want. In the same state, Benson is outrunning by 4 points. Talarico outran the governor race. The data about last night's wins is clear and extremely easy to interpret. It is also being interpreted widely and accurately. I'm very glad AES won! I'm glad he'll push the senate left! But Dems could've won more seats in close races with better (for the region) candidates. Florida was absolutely winnable. And AES is far from the only proof that "moderate" Dems outran the left flank in important races/swing states/more conservative states. Idk why we have to suddenly pretend that we can't read. All that can still be true, and we can still celebrate AES's victory. I hope Dems push left in safe districts. But some of y'all are drawing a conclusion not substantiated by evidence. I have no problem running DSA types where they can win comfortably. But we could've won even more last night.

Unless you stan Bjork if someone less well known, no ATRL should be making a thread like this lmao.

No one said this except you. Fighting ghosts as always.

But this is already a shifted goalpost. In the context of this discussion, we are using ATRL definitions. People are already complaining that the conclusion is that we need a candidate like Ossoff or Talarico to run next time and not someone further left. No data supports that. It sounds like you don't even believe it (?). Not sure what to make of your position because this last post seems to contradict some of it. First AES only had comparatively bad margins because he had a uniquely challenging campaign. Now Talarico actually had a challenging campaign too, but that's fine because he's also actually a leftist? We both know what centrist Dem means in the context of this conversation. Don't try to obfuscate what we're discussing by redefining things midway through. Right now it sounds like you're agreeing that Talarico/Ossoff are a better path forward for the presidential election and even taking credit for them. If you feel that way I'm not sure I'd give you the credit, but I'm pleased we're in agreement about 2028.

As if this wasn't true for the other Democrats. Texas was the most expensive Senate race in American history. Ken P outspend Talarico by 100 million dollars, much more than Michigan. They demonized Talarico in every possible way, including faking that he had a mental breakdown. As usual you are just ignoring anything that doesn't reinforce the narrative you want to believe. The only one ignoring context is you. The data is extremely clear. You can even see in exit polling that fewer Americans identify as DSA than MAGA. In the midst of a blue tsunami.

Your logic is always heads I win tails you lose. AES had objectively one of the worst nights. The other candidates were just as demonized and outspent. Texas spending was absolutely insane. Yet you can all look at hard black and white data like AES underperforming Cooper, Ossoff, Talarico, and so many others and somehow still arrive at the conclusion you want.

Idk, maybe we learned something from every single data point showing moderate Dems performing in a once-in-a-generation sort of way in states that haven't gone blue in decades (or even close to a century) and out-performing the left flank

Jolly did better than Nixon, girl. If Florida had a moderate with a solid personality a la the moderates who won last night, Florida would've easily been won.