I appreciate we all want to move from Olivia talk and that's completely fine… but just from listening to her new record… it's really beautiful and quite sentimental hearing Taylor's influence sprinkled throughout that record… (especially given how good it is - whew man she knocked it out of the park).

I don't mean that in a cynical way or as shade… I just think it's nice knowing Taylor helped usher in a whole generation of genuinely talented female songwriters (Gracie, Maisie, Audrey etc) and Olivia is probably the most prolific voice for teenage girls of her generation in the same way Taylor was for hers.

Not every comparison has to be an indictment of either artist… it can genuinely be a compliment.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Peroxide

1 hour ago, blade bird said:

Sorry, I just don't get the point of 1) being clearly upset about this song, 2) pretending people said things about its expected success that basically nobody actually did say, 3) acting like a strong #1 hit is a "flop," and 4) acting like we can't wait to see if the movie helps the song become a longer-term hit. Like, it's a Disney sponsored Taylor Swift song. Come on.

In the moment it was announced many swifties on stand twitter and here it was said that Jack will end Max Martin. The song was also #2 on TTH and it got massive radio exposure. Now suddenly the narrative has changed that we didn't expect massive commercial performance from this. Even here they are saying that we should wait for the movie for bigger numbers . Why can't people admit when they lose OMG. Max Martin WON whether you like it or not! Meanwhile this new Jack produced song it's boring and horrible and forgettable.

Will this even outdo any TLOAS album track at this point?

Edited June 14Jun 14 by idkwiam

1 hour ago, Peroxide said:

I appreciate we all want to move from Olivia talk and that's completely fine… but just from listening to her new record… it's really beautiful and quite sentimental hearing Taylor's influence sprinkled throughout that record… (especially given how good it is - whew man she knocked it out of the park).

I don't mean that in a cynical way or as shade… I just think it's nice knowing Taylor helped usher in a whole generation of genuinely talented female songwriters (Gracie, Maisie, Audrey etc) and Olivia is probably the most prolific voice for teenage girls of her generation in the same way Taylor was for hers.

Not every comparison has to be an indictment of either artist… it can genuinely be a compliment.

I agree. In spite of the falling-out they had or whatever drama ensued, and no matter what anyone thinks of either Taylor or Olivia, it is without a doubt the fact that Olivia is the oldest Taydaughter and that is meant as a compliment, not shade. As a stan of both, that works out for me because I like the way they both play around with pop music and their respective lyricisms. I'm a wishful thinker and would love for them to reconcile like a Prodigal Son moment

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Pomegranate

Anyways let me play TLOASUS. CANCELLED is still that song

21 minutes ago, idkwiam said:

here it was said that Jack will end Max Martin.

this is all it is to you, you don’t really care for the performance of the song as long as you get to drag Jack

Some people just celebrated that the song was not produced by Max, not that it would outstream Ophelia or any Max single (like you previously stated and I still would love to see proof of that, if you’re willing to share).

Has anyone ever considered Taylor Swift x Kygo as a concept? Just ran across the acoustic/orchestral version of Save My Love and it was gorgeous. Something similar for a whole album where it's the dance side and the acoustic would be wow!!

8 minutes ago, Dear Reader said:

this is all it is to you, you don't really care for the performance of the song as long as you get to drag Jack

Some people just celebrated that the song was not produced by Max, not that it would outstream Ophelia or any Max single (like you previously stated and I still would love to see proof of that, if you're willing to share).

Yes I'll continue to drag Jack horrible produced songs. He can't produce country and this song is the proof. The way swifties don't want her to expand her producer's team is insane.

3 minutes ago, idkwiam said:

The way swifties don't want her to expand her producer's team is insane.

This is a second narrative you keep spewing but with no truth behind it. We have multiple conversations about her working with different producers (see the post above yours), but I think most of us would rather her working with Jack/Aaron if she's sticking to the same producers, instead of Max because Max generally doesn't bring the best in her, while the other two do.

Ideally, she would make TS13 the turning point to work with new people, but if she's going to remain with the same producers, I'd rather she keeps Jack and Aaron as a team and ditches Max

4 minutes ago, Dear Reader said:

This is a second narrative you keep spewing but with no truth behind it. We have multiple conversations about her working with different producers (see the post above yours), but I think most of us would rather her working with Jack/Aaron if she's sticking to the same producers, instead of Max because Max generally doesn't bring the best in her, while the other two do.

Ideally, she would make TS13 the turning point to work with new people, but if she's going to remain with the same producers, I'd rather she keeps Jack and Aaron as a team and ditches Max

Max supposedly not bringing the best in her while producing Style, BS, SIO, WD, Delicate, DBM, Ophelia, Opalite meanwhile Jack producing songs like IKIIKY being her best. We can only agree only on Aaron I guess

The desperate clinging to Jack is genuinely insane while also saying that evermore is her best album. That album has ONLY one Jack produced song. The other songs were produced by AARON.

honestly aaron sucks ass, i like jack and max and i thought the last two albums were fine but all these partnerships feel played out now, time to move on i think

22 minutes ago, idkwiam said:

Max supposedly not bringing the best in her while producing Style, BS, SIO, WD, Delicate, DBM, Ophelia, Opalite meanwhile Jack producing songs like IKIIKY being her best. We can only agree only on Aaron I guess

Showgirl is her worst effort (ALBUM PRODUCED BY: MAX MARTIN, SHELLBACK & TAYLOR SWIFT)

10 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Showgirl is her worst effort (ALBUM PRODUCED BY: MAX MARTIN, SHELLBACK & TAYLOR SWIFT)

To Calvin user maybe. To other people it's an enjoyable album.

170k? Girl, restock time

it's about to get uglier than matty healy

9 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Showgirl is her worst effort (ALBUM PRODUCED BY: MAX MARTIN, SHELLBACK & TAYLOR SWIFT)

I think everyone's tune would shift if she made 5 edits to the album (1. cut down on the innuendos in wood and hyped the superstition part just a bit more, 2. found a different way to express her eldest daughter feelings, 3. changed cancelled to be a little more nuanced, 4. fixed wish list by either adding a sample that played a vapid song about wanting material things or twisting the song to admit she has all of those things but has never wanted anything more than true love, 5. Added one more pop banger song about the glitz and the glamor of being a showgirl around ET in the track listing).

I think it's serviceable as is, but the common thought that she could have marinated it a little bit more is something I've come around on.

4 minutes ago, PenguinTim said:

it's about to get uglier than matty healy

I was praying for time like this. Taylor queen, you are incredible

11 hours ago, Incandescent Glow said:

My problem with that is that it requires multiple unlikely conditions to be met to be true.

1) Olivia, despite being a lifelong fan of Taylor, decided to give retroactive credits just so that she could damage Taylor's reputation and benefit from it.

2) Taylor cannot do anything about it, and I have a hard time believing the idea that Taylor, one of the most powerful figure of the music industry, couldn't do anything about it if she wanted to, even if not publicly. So she either doesn't want to fight it, or doesn't care enough to make this narrative go away. And if Taylor doesn't, why should we?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not out here calling for Taylor lashings. Absolutely not. But I also would really enjoy to be browsing the base and not having to read Olivia lashings either because I for one really enjoy seeing the one and true Taydaughter prosper, no matter the current state of their relationship.

I actually agree with a lot of your sentiment and I'm a big fan of Olivia's new album, but I do think the truth lies somewhere in the middle which is why people have such a hard time dealing with this affair.

I don't believe for one second that Taylor feels "threatened" or whatever, nor that Olivia has plotted some grand plan for years to replace Taylor.

I strongly believe that either Olivia's own team gave the credits voluntarily, perhaps against her wishes, or that someone with Cruel Summer publishing rights reached out. We know for a fact it wasn't Jack, and there's no way Taylor would try anything like that without telling Jack first. And, it would just be very unlike her to demand credits in the first place to anyone who knows how she operates. However, it would also be unlike her to intervene if someone else would demand credits (just like St. Vicent or Jack didn't if Taylor is the instigator). And I personally wouldn't blame her for that.

In any scenario, Olivia would obviously feel upset about her biggest hits getting plagiarism allegations.

Something that's rarely mentioned about this whole thing, though, is that Olivia actually continued praising Taylor in interviews for half a year after the credits were given.

This is her quote from December 2021 with Zach Lowe about Taylor's support: "And in the grogginess of my sleep, I checked my phone and she commented on my photo and I just about died… just about died. Literally, I've looked up to her as long as I can remember, so it was so sweet of her to do that."

Too me, this is a sign that Olivia did not feel "deep betrayal" or anything like that, at least not immediately.

Not that she couldn't have felt weird at some point - maybe Taylor didn't reach out after, maybe her closeness with Hayley Williams and Sabrina seemed like something it wasn't to her, maybe Taylor "blocking" Olivia's second week with "digitally signed" evermore variants didn't help the situation…

I can also believe that maybe Olivia's team realized at some point that the story growing by itself on social media could actually help her career in some way…. And that her silence would just keep people speculating.

Loca malfunctioning in the hot 100 thread is effing hilarious

2 minutes ago, Arrows said:

I actually agree with a lot of your sentiment and I'm a big fan of Olivia's new album, but I do think the truth lies somewhere in the middle which is why people have such a hard time dealing with this affair.

I don't believe for one second that Taylor feels "threatened" or whatever, nor that Olivia has plotted some grand plan for years to replace Taylor.

I strongly believe that either Olivia's own team gave the credits voluntarily, perhaps against her wishes, or that someone with Cruel Summer publishing rights reached out. We know for a fact it wasn't Jack, and there's no way Taylor would try anything like that without telling Jack first. And, it would just be very unlike her to demand credits in the first place to anyone who knows how she operates. However, it would also be unlike her to intervene if someone else would demand credits (just like St. Vicent or Jack didn't if Taylor is the instigator). And I personally wouldn't blame her for that.

In any scenario, Olivia would obviously feel upset about her biggest hits getting plagiarism allegations.

Something that's rarely mentioned about this whole thing, though, is that Olivia actually continued praising Taylor in interviews for half a year after the credits were given.

This is her quote from December 2021 with Zach Lowe about Taylor's support: "And in the grogginess of my sleep, I checked my phone and she commented on my photo and I just about died… just about died. Literally, I've looked up to her as long as I can remember, so it was so sweet of her to do that."

Too me, this is a sign that Olivia did not feel "deep betrayal" or anything like that, at least not immediately.

Not that she couldn't have felt weird at some point - maybe Taylor didn't reach out after, maybe her closeness with Hayley Williams and Sabrina seemed like something it wasn't to her, maybe Taylor "blocking" Olivia's second week with "digitally signed" evermore variants didn't help the situation…

I can also believe that maybe Olivia's team realized at some point that the story growing by itself on social media could actually help her career in some way…. And that her silence would just keep people speculating.

I fully agree with your theory

I think what actually happened is not the credit situation but the post-credit situation.

Maybe Olivia felt like Taylor wasn't doing her part to defend her name in the face of angry stans or cooling them down? And that's what made her upset?

Obviously, all of this remains speculation. But her praising Taylor even after the fiasco is why I don't think whatever bitterness exists between them is the result of the credit situation itself but rather whatever followed.

This episode also makes me go back to the question of how much are celebrity feuds actually just created or prolonged by inter-fanbase disputing. Like I wouldn't doubt it if the falling out was largely because of the reactions between swifties and livvies

People not knowing charts are arguing lol

IKY is doing good in streaming as well

These new stans are too much

11 hours ago, Peak Now said:

Have it on good authority that Taylor may be blocking a certain female artist on a certain chart... get ready y'all

Girl the way I thought this was a joke or a troll

11 minutes ago, Pomegranate said:

I fully agree with your theory

I think what actually happened is not the credit situation but the post-credit situation.

Maybe Olivia felt like Taylor wasn't doing her part to defend her name in the face of angry stans or cooling them down? And that's what made her upset?

Obviously, all of this remains speculation. But her praising Taylor even after the fiasco is why I don't think whatever bitterness exists between them is the result of the credit situation itself but rather whatever followed.

This episode also makes me go back to the question of how much are celebrity feuds actually just created or prolonged by inter-fanbase disputing. Like I wouldn't doubt it if the falling out was largely because of the reactions between swifties and livvies

Points were made! I definitely think there are some examples of fanbases "feuding" leading directly to the artists falling out with each other as well. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the more online artists (cough cough, Billie) see their own fans hating Taylor and therefore end up with the same opinions.

5 minutes ago, blade bird said:

Girl the way I thought this was a joke or a troll

I kinda knew about it too

I was silent for a reason

"Taydaughter"

Jesus FREE TAYLOR