One more thing…

@Graffiti if you think it's wrong to say "Zionism = Jewish supremacy"… then you absolutely are a Zionist. Who do you think you're fooling with this "I'm not a Zionist, I don't even care about it" nonsense? Bozo

27 minutes ago, Graffiti said:

I truly don't know what else to say to you as you continue to mischaracterize my views as support for Zionism or a defense of it in theory or practice. I will repeat: I am not a Zionist. I don't care about Zionism, it means nothing to me. I care about accuracy and portraying people and belief systems correctly, lest we fall into the dangerous territory of stereotypes, canards and witchhunts that are incredibly harmful. Can we agree that these issues need to be approached with sensitivity, that our words matter? I care about Palestinians and I care about Jewish people. There need not be any contradiction. Let me remind you I've called out what I percieve as anti-Palestinian bias on this forum many times. The painting of me as a crypto Zionist promoting the interests of Israel or it's defenders is wrong and hurtful. It's why we're here. That twisting of the story to fit your own narrative is one so many are tired of.

You're unable to convince even your closest friends that you're not defending Zionism so I urge you to stop bothering trying to convince me.

Especially when you're rallying for completely changing the entire forum experience for hundreds of users because you cannot successfully stifle and convince other users in any meaningful way that somehow there is merit to an ethnic nationalist movement like Zionism.

I recommend you spend your time with your friends on Discord doing things like discussing spicy k-pop opinions (how are we feeling about the XLOV release, girls? I'm... sadly disappointed. It's.. shockingly awful. I'm heartbroken!!) and less trying to do some authoritarian silencing of political views.

I remained steadfast that ethno-nationalism is wrong when people on here in 2016 and 2017 were doing "Italy for Italians, Hungary for Hungarians" white supremacist nonsense and you're not going to somehow gaslight or harass any of us into accepting "Israel for Jews" is somehow not a supremacist view.

And to be clear - "Israel for Jews" is literally the core tenet of Zionism. If recognizing this fact is an "antisemitic dog whistle" which requires substantially changing the entire forum to bend to the will of those who refuse to recognize such, Rian might want to add an IP block so that the forum can't be accessed via Israel because "Zionism is the belief of ethnic supremacy for Jewish people in Israel" is the literal median view amongst Israeli citizens at the moment.

1 hour ago, Balthier said:

Day 2 of asking:

Who could I talk to get my reactions back or how long should I wait for them to be back?

PM Rian

11 minutes ago, Communion said:

I can't be making something up by literally asking for information.

And that myself or other users have to ask for information because this was all hashed out on an official? Unofficial? Discord server underscores a problem.

The Discord thing really is messy and undercuts any argument that all of these decision were not rushed and were done in good faith.

So what is the fact-finding? Would any of this even be shared if I didn't stick my nose (lol) in it?

Graffiti was angry over people calling Zionism a nationalist and supremacist ideology. He then made multiple posts across ATRL and a thread in Civics attacking users (a mod even said his posts were hostile and aggressive). So... now what?

• He then shares this anger in the ~official ATRL discord~ with... everyone? Some users?

• He then shares Gov Hooka's past post mocking antisemitic hate crime statistics? And the section with this thread is now entirely hidden so people can't even see what is being claimed and referenced?

• How did Gov Hooka and him then even then get involved fighting one another on Discord?

• Did GH start attacking him for mentioning him? Or did Graffiti accost GH like he did other users in PMs on here?

• Is now GH banned? What is the reason going to be cited for his suspension - dismissing antisemitic hate crimes or fighting on Discord?

• Is Graffiti going to face similar suspension for wishing death on him? If not, is the Discord server officially promoted as moderator free?

• What recourse do users who do not want to participate in a Discord server have to ensure they're not being degraded on an official ATRL server?

• Why did Sheep claim the subforum is being possibly deleted cause "under-moderation" when Graffiti claimed the mod team literally thoroughly discussed an issue and were genuinely split?

• Also how is Graffiti privy to what moderators are discussing and were split on what to do?

• How does one user being hostile and mocking antisemitism statistics - and another user being hostile and defending genocidal ethnic nationalism - have then to do with hundreds of other users being implicated in some claim of massive, unaddressed antisemitism?

• What moderating changes can even be implemented to curtail the unpopularity of Zionism as an ethnic nationalist movement?

Once again, your facts are incorrect. And i’m not going to address all of this because it’s irrelevant.

GovHooka is NOT banned. He was post restricted well over a week ago because of a personal attack. Something that then resulted in GH coming to discord and attacking me and two other mods after falsely assuming the person he was attacking also didn’t get warned. Which resulted in a lengthy back and forth in which me and GH came to an understanding. Crucial information missing in the ridiculous narrative you’ve concocted.

Just like people can post in HQ or PM with direct access to the mods, came thing in the official discord.

Literally I posted that mods were discussing an issue and civics would return if/when we came to a resolution. Well before you stuck your nose in something that didn’t involve you.

“How does he know what’s being deliberated” same as you all know when we post about it. Anyways…

4 minutes ago, Angelshark said:

PM Rian

He knows he’s not getting his reactions back. Especially after he attacked me again last week.

17 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

I also don't think either of these people are problems for the thread, just things I don't always choose to engage with for the better of the thread. Perhaps users who are usually the ones trying to engage in discussions with people can try to disengage when they sense the other user is getting frustrated, but I think the onus is on the adult who's frustrated to recognize that and log off for a bit.

Your post was very well-said and I hope everyone reads it. This part felt especially relevant, and is, I believe, the core issue when it comes to arguments in Civics. Hardly anyone can ever disengage. If Communion is mischaracterizing your statements, ignore their posts and keep it moving. But instead, people respond, get into back and forths, and even when they're asked to take a break, refuse to do so and keep arguments going. Communion knows very well that they used to fight with me all the time in 2016 when I was a Hillary supporter (another lifetime ) and I just put them on ignore and I no longer got into arguments with them. It's that easy. But because people refuse to disengage, its left to the mods to handle these arguments, which almost always devolve into name-calling and other personal attacks.

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

Especially when you're rallying for completely changing the entire forum experience for hundreds of users because you cannot successfully stifle and convince other users in any meaningful way that somehow there is merit to an ethnic nationalist movement like Zionism.

Once again a false statement based on your ridiculous assumptions.

is hiding post feature back? i swear i saw some post missing from this page

1 hour ago, Rian said:

The plugin i've been waiting for is done.

search feature?

hq avi?

block user?

@Graffiti disengage. It doesn’t matter what you’ve said and have been consistent about. The narrative now is you’re a zionist. And let’s be clear, @Sheep (as your friend) was 100% correct to address the perception that your attitude was given zionazi even if that wasn’t your intention, and that you were wrong to go off the way you did. And instead of you battling with needless essays about why he was wrong to even suggest that backed with blah blah blah statistics blah blah blah this website link, you took the feedback and said you’d look at how you’ve been coming across. You also reiterated why you felt the way you did and acknowledged that you handled the situation with GH wrong and apologized.

So honestly just let it go.

7 minutes ago, Rian said:

Once again a false statement based on your ridiculous assumptions.

Your friend literally demanded the removal of the reaction button because he cannot convince people Zionism is not a supremacist ideology.

Is Celebria going to be removed too because he got ran out of that section for defending Zionism?

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

Your friend literally demanded the removal of the reaction button because he cannot convince people Zionism is not a supremacist ideology.

Is Celebria going to be removed too because he got ran out of that section for defending Zionism?

Graffiti’s been complaining about the react button for months and it’s still here. He’s not the only one. It has NOTHING to do with him being downvoted in that thread. I know that’s not convenient for your narrative but it’s a fact.

12 minutes ago, Rian said:

Once again, your facts are incorrect. And i'm not going to address all of this because it's irrelevant.

GovHooka is NOT banned. He was post restricted well over a week ago because of a personal attack. Something that then resulted in GH coming to discord and attacking me and two other mods after falsely assuming the person he was attacking also didn't get warned. Which resulted in a lengthy back and forth in which me and GH came to an understanding. Crucial information missing in the ridiculous narrative you've concocted.

Just like people can post in HQ or PM with direct access to the mods, came thing in the official discord.

Literally I posted that mods were discussing an issue and civics would return if/when we came to a resolution. Well before you stuck your nose in something that didn't involve you.

"How does he know what's being deliberated" same as you all know when we post about it. Anyways…

Again, people can respect and appreciate the work you do in the technical upkeep and fixing of the forum while disagreeing with what you claim are the motives and reasons for administrative decision. No one is disrespecting you or undercutting the work you do for the forum by expressing that your decisions related to how people discuss politics on here are intertwined with your own political feelings and friendships.

You're resorting to random attacks instead of actually being able to address the concerns expressed.

I didn't say GH was banned. I literally asked if you could confirm such, given another user cited his posts and behavior as the problem behind all of this. And then asked why the solution would not be to just deal with said member?

Hand-waving away such concerns by simply saying users should try and request information from moderating staff highly dependent on their close friendship with any moderator is silly, and underscores the kind of misguided attitude to hash out such over massive fights on an official (?) discord server.

It veers into retaliation and the very kind of hostile behavior that the user behind all of this was claiming as a central issue.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Communion

4 minutes ago, Rian said:

Graffiti's been complaining about the react button for months and it's still here. He's not the only one. It has NOTHING to do with him being downvoted in that thread. I know that's not convenient for your narrative but it's a fact.

Mine?

11 hours ago, lgaga1fan said:

The only thing Graffiti was outright advocating for REMOVING was the downvote button (of all things, very funny actually) to be deleted

Oh this is still going.

1 minute ago, Communion said:

Mine?

You say it’s because of that thread. I’m telling you it started well before that.

23 minutes ago, Rian said:

He knows he's not getting his reactions back. Especially after he attacked me again last week.

Soooo you are basing the decisions of this forum on "personal relationships"

Just quit already or give me my reactions back or send me to someone who works well and is objective

And next time you want to talk about me, quote me, COWARD

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

Mine?

There's a difference between disliking something and DEMANDING it be removed. He wasn't seriously trying to pen a petition to get a reaction button removed, he was airing out why he thinks it's a useless feature and why he dislikes it. You used that fact to convince yourself that Graffiti somehow has a reign over the mod team and is making demands to try to rewrite site rules, neither of which are true girl. It was stated to your face SEVERAL times that there have been issues with Civics that the mods want to address and Rian said plainly that he removed it for the time being.

16 hours ago, Fleahive said:

Dm me the tea. I won't tell anyone; I have no friends on here.

Reminder that this post is the straw that broke the camel's back. One thang I'm gon' do is stir the pot and then run chile!

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Again, people can respect and appreciate the work you do in the technical upkeep and fixing of the forum while disagreeing with what you claim are the motives and reasons for administrative decision. No one is disrespecting you or undercutting the work you do for the forum by expressing that your decisions related to how people discuss politics on here are intertwined with your own political feelings and friendships.

You're resorting to random attacks instead of actually being able to address the concerns expressed.

I didn't say GH was banned. I literally asked if you could confirm such, given another user cited his posts and behavior as the problem behind all of this.

Hand-waving away such concerns by simply saying users should try and request information from moderating staff highly dependent on their close friendship with any moderator is silly, and underscores the kind of misguided attitude to hash out such over massive fights on an official (?) discord server.

It veers into retaliation and the very kind of hostile behavior that the user behind all of this was claiming as a central issue.

Me saying a is the reason for b, and you implying i’m lying is not disagreeing. I’m telling you what the reason was, and you’re going off feels and vibes about it being about something else.

Not randomly attacking you. You said you were labeled an extremist. You weren’t. You said Graffiti wanted Civics shut down. He didn’t. And despite being told numerous times it wasn’t true, you’re determined to argue that it is because you’re obstinate.

Anyone can come in HQ and ask for info. I interact with people I don’t like everyday. And it has nothing to with close relationships. Loca drives me insane but when they ask a question in HQ and I can give them an answer I do.

6 minutes ago, Balthier said:

Soooo you are basing the decisions of this forum on "personal relationships"

Just quit already or give me my reactions back or send me to someone who works well and is objective

And next time you want to talk about me, quote me, COWARD

you will be the first person I ban from HQ when I install the plugin.

1 minute ago, Rian said:

You say it's because of that thread. I'm telling you it started well before that.

I think it'd benefit to read back and realize how your recollection of events differs from what is claimed by Graffiti and Sheep despite you all 3 being close. Sheep also said it was Graffiti bringing up a troubling, objectively antisemitic post by GH that mods apparently missed (which you and Graffiti now say is not an accurate characterization) that caused this discourse.

Graffiti literally posted in this thread that the interactions in the Gwyneth Paltrow thread upset them and they expressed that in Discord following such.

That one user that shared that part of Graffiti's complaining in the last 24 hours included complaining about reactions.

"My friend is always complaining about the reaction button" doesn't address that he was apparently doing it again due to definitions of Zionism.

Including in Graffiti's very own words:

Then last week, the Gwyneth Paltrow Israeli real estate story blew up. I took issue with a post that basically defined Zionism as Jewish supremacy. I think that's wrong. Most people who identify as Zionists aren't advocating ethnic or racial superiority. They're simply supportive of a Jewish homeland in some form. Equating that with racial supremacy isn't accurate, and I think it risks feeding into some pretty ugly stereotypes.

(This post now being deleted. Surely it's not hard to realize the problematic, disruptive behavior is in users like this degrading people as "antisemites" and then trying to hide one's hands when caught throwing stones).

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Communion

Just now, Rian said:

you will be the first person I ban from HQ when I install the plugin.

You won't realize that you started to treat me like **** months ago, or maybe you don't remember tbh, but every time I wanted to speak on this topic, I've received a bad response from you, and that was before I attacked you or said something against you

You started this, not me. I don't deserve this treatment from you and I think you don't deserve this treatment from me either

I'm sorry if I called you a coward and for the attack last week, we can have a better relationship, I just want someone to answer what I asked, what can I do to gain my reactions back because there's has to be a way

wow i didnt realize there was so much drama happening on ATRL. we're all on the same team guys; we are homosexuals who need to stick together

Seriously, how many chances is this antisemite going to be given? An entire section of the forum was taken offline and he just moved to satisfying his need for poor faith babbling with this thread. This user isn't serious it's a troll. He just accuses people of random **** and makes things up about what was said on here all day and seemingly only gets away with it by being so verbose with his nonsense that it exhausts moderators. @Rian you literally have a ban button. You don't need to keep explaining yourself to somebody who isn't interested in explanation and only wants to find new angles to attack people and pretend he was right all along.

Outside of such a contentious issue, users who are caught defending their genocidal buddies and skirting around the accusations that they're bigots too would be handled. I pointed out how he didn't write a single word refuting the antisemitic claims in spite of all the essays literally 12 hours ago and he's had like 20 troll essays since then to address it and just hasn't.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Sheep