14 minutes ago, lgaga1fan said:

There's a difference between disliking something and DEMANDING it be removed.

Eventually all of this boiled over into a pretty hostile Discord exchange between me and the user in question. I lost my temper. Communion is right that if I had said those things on the forum, I probably would've been banned for a long time. I'm not going to make excuses for it. I was angry and I handled it poorly.

"This user was being light-hearted and totally not serious, ignore them in their own words admitting to doing things that that they would be banned for [but apparently won't be]."

?

It's just insulting to people's intelligence for people double down and gaslight people that what they saw occur as an emotionally-charged decision was not.

Censoring discussion to the point of hiding an entire section of the forum without any actual communication about it while also then arbitrarily locking threads made elsewhere - with no clear guide on where this de-facto politics ban starts and stops?

It's... about decorum and not Israel? But also IS about Israel if political threads about Trump are fine:

But major legal news in the UK is not okay? Cause again... Israel~?

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Communion

Civics is coming back right? what is this argument even about atp

2 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Seriously, how many chances is this antisemite going to be given? An entire section of the forum was taken offline and he just moved to satisfying his need for poor faith babbling with this thread. This user isn't serious it's a troll. He just accuses people of random **** and makes things up about what was said on here all day and seemingly only gets away with it by being so verbose with his nonsense that it exhausts moderators. @Rian you literally have a ban button.

Not trying to beef sister, but just for optics sake, it seems like you're making false claims about someone while also being upset about the false claims they're making about others too.

A person is not an antisemite for arguing about the closure of Civics and reasoning behind it, especially when said person has a long history of defending politicians like Bernie Sanders from actual antisemitic attacks for years, such as calling him a Bolshevik. Annoying is not antisemitism.

I don't really have a stake in drama or anything, but I think part of the problem that happens in Civics is that people just don't like a person and it results claims escalating into more serious accusations beyond annoying and into antisemitic/zionists claims. I'm just making a sweeping statement here too btw, not denying that users can't actually be antisemitic or zionist, but I see dislike being conflated with these claims most of the time.

4 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Outside of such a contentious issue, users who are caught defending their genocidal buddies and skirting around the accusations that they're bigots too would be handled. I pointed out how he didn't write a single word refuting the antisemitic claims in spite of all the essays literally 12 hours ago and he's had like 20 troll essays since then to address it and just hasn't.

Not this mirroring the literal tactics of Zionists.

"BUT DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS GOVHOOKA??"

Where would any of us even know:

• that GovHooka was fighting with someone on a Discord server you don't and shouldn't have to be a member of to post here

• what GovHooka posted on here that Ryan was apparently unaware of (?) when the section it was posted in is now vanished with no explanation

• the content of GovHooka and Graffiti's fight - where Graffiti apparently told GH to die - that involved none of us

I just want to get Top 40 / Hot AC updates on Ariana Grande's latest (#1!!!) single and shares updates with fellow politicos on future president AOC.

This demand that people have to participate in some shady off-site server on another platform where people threaten one another's lives to understand when entire sections are deleted to not be retaliated against in the name of "cliques" (??) is..

It's rage baiting at this point. But unlike others, I don't think Communion is antisemetic, nor has he engaged in such comments that could be perceived as such, even if it's going to be met with a essay about zionist propoganda.

I also don't think he should be required to answer for the actions of people's he's close to, reaction aside.

15 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Seriously, how many chances is this antisemite going to be given? An entire section of the forum was taken offline and he just moved to satisfying his need for poor faith babbling with this thread. This user isn't serious it's a troll. He just accuses people of random **** and makes things up about what was said on here all day and seemingly only gets away with it by being so verbose with his nonsense that it exhausts moderators. @Rian you literally have a ban button. You don't need to keep explaining yourself to somebody who isn't interested in explanation and only wants to find new angles to attack people and pretend he was right all along.

Outside of such a contentious issue, users who are caught defending their genocidal buddies and skirting around the accusations that they're bigots too would be handled. I pointed out how he didn't write a single word refuting the antisemitic claims in spite of all the essays literally 12 hours ago and he's had like 20 troll essays since then to address it and just hasn't.

25 minutes ago, Pikachoo said:

wow i didnt realize there was so much drama happening on ATRL. we're all on the same team guys; we are homosexuals who need to stick together

Yes, thank you. We need more of this.

2 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

Not trying to beef sister, but just for optics sake, it seems like you're making false claims about someone while also being upset about the false claims they're making about others too.

A person is not an antisemite for arguing about the closure of Civics and reasoning behind it, especially when said person has a long history of defending politicians like Bernie Sanders from actual antisemitic attacks for years, such as calling him a Bolshevik. Annoying is not antisemitism.

I don't really have a stake in drama or anything, but I think part of the problem that happens in Civics is that people just don't like a person and it results claims escalating into more serious accusations beyond annoying and into antisemitic/zionists claims. I'm just making a sweeping statement here too btw, not denying that users can't actually be antisemitic or zionist, but I see dislike being conflated with these claims most of the time.

If you backread my original post that opened this can of stupid-worms, I pointed out that the thread/discord discussion that kicked all of this off was informed by @Gov Hooka previously endorsing plainly antisemitic speech, which I and the forum moderators(and anybody else who will listen ) have seen receipts of. The offending posts had nothing to do with Israel. The point in me bringing that up was to say that there was poor moderation decisions leading up to the closure and that "evil zionist takes down ATRL in the name of evil" was not what happened here, as has been reiterated several times. Your oomf has refused to engage with this point at every turn and is literally right below your post trying to spin it into something it isn't, instead of just saying "hey that user might be an antisemite but that's not my intention here".

He absolutely CAN NOT expect every other person to engage with his trolling bs seriously where he demands explanations from everybody all of the time for his imagined offenses but skirt around any legitimate concerns thrown his way, sorry. That's not how a real 2-way discussion works. Y'all have gassed this trollop into thinking he's the atrl accountability police.

1 minute ago, Rian said:

It's rage baiting at this point. But unlike others, I don't think Communion is antisemetic, nor has he engaged in such comments that could be perceived as such, even if it's going to be met with a essay about zionist propoganda.

I also don't think he should be required to answer for the actions of people's he's close to, reaction aside.

All I'm saying is that if it was any other group of people being targeted and with a history of users raising that concern, the users rushing in to defend those comments and smear the other side would be given time outs. He's had a suspiciously high number of novel-length posts to refute the claim that he's an antisemite and acting in bad faith too and just hasn't.

I understand you don't want to have your political affiliations scrutinized or to deal with any more abuse from a certain group of users but he's literally just trolling and gaslighting all over this thread. That's a bannable offense, imo.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Sheep

1 minute ago, Sheep said:

If you backread my original post that opened this can of stupid-worms, I pointed out that the thread/discord discussion that kicked all of this off was informed by @Gov Hooka previously endorsing plainly antisemitic speech, which I and the forum moderators(and anybody else who will listen ) have seen receipts of. The offending posts had nothing to do with Israel. The point in me bringing that up was to say that there was poor moderation decisions leading up to the closure and that "evil zionist takes down ATRL in the name of evil" was not what happened here, as has been reiterated several times. Your oomf has refused to engage with this point at every turn and is literally right below your post trying to spin it into something it isn't, instead of just saying "hey that user might be an antisemite but that's not my intention here".

He absolutely CAN NOT expect every other person to engage with his trolling bs seriously where he demands explanations from everybody all of the time for his imagined offenses but skirt around any legitimate concerns thrown his way, sorry. That's not how a real 2-way discussion works. Y'all have gassed this trollop into thinking he's the atrl accountability police.

I hear ya sis. I think the long and short of it is that since everyone seems to understand there's no actual hate speech happening here at this very moment, people should ignore the posts that annoy them for the sake of peace and productive discussion.

I know people think there's a clique of users who gang up intentionally on people, but everyone gets their fair share of lashings even within the progressive sphere. I've lashed out at other progressives, I've gotten my own lashings from them as well. Just taking it in stride and moving on when the discussion has ran its course is all we can do, it's not personal I feel— it's just politics talk.

I appreciate the measured response to me though sis, thank you

12 minutes ago, Relampago. said:

Not trying to beef sister, but just for optics sake, it seems like you're making false claims about someone while also being upset about the false claims they're making about others too.

A person is not an antisemite for arguing about the closure of Civics and reasoning behind it, especially when said person has a long history of defending politicians like Bernie Sanders from actual antisemitic attacks for years, such as calling him a Bolshevik. Annoying is not antisemitism.

I don't really have a stake in drama or anything, but I think part of the problem that happens in Civics is that people just don't like a person and it results claims escalating into more serious accusations beyond annoying and into antisemitic/zionists claims. I'm just making a sweeping statement here too btw, not denying that users can't actually be antisemitic or zionist, but I see dislike being conflated with these claims most of the time.

Yeah I'm deeply confused on how the entire framework keeps wildly swinging back and forth from claiming this has nothing to do with Israel to:

21 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Seriously, how many chances is this antisemite going to be given?

Let alone, that we have no ability to even know what the antisemitic comment by GovHokka was because the entire section was angrily hidden in a rush after a Discord fight. So much so that the subsection was only hidden at first, not the threads themselves.

I know this cause my dumb ass was posting in them for a little bit until realizing clicking back in the breadcrumbs gave back and error and thought "oh... that's odd".

Like girl... just put that **** back up and let most of us be on our way. No one found the subforum disruptive until someone in here used it to literally start aggressively name-calling people over issues of Israel & antisemitism.

Telling users that there's a landmine they have to navigate in a blanket politics ban with no explanation of what that means until some discussion on "how to improve moderating" takes place looks like an attempt to retaliate against users for their political views.

Antisemitism is a serious issue, but if an actual discussion about how matters are moderated on here were to happen, an actual review would find that an over-correction has occurred since 2023 in the name of tackling antisemitism inadvertently often resulting in accidental pro-Israel framing.

This place's user base being so progressive in its politics means a huge amount of self-policing and self-moderating occurs by the very users in Civics to root out antisemitism and avoid allowing it to rise up in greater conversations about the dangers of Zionism.

Seeing the kind of discussions that occur in Civics amongst a wide spread of users make some allegation of unaddressed antisemitism just bubbling under for most users extremely toothless.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Communion

There are antisemites on this forum, but I definitely don't think @Communion is one of them. Do I think he argues in bad faith sometimes? Sure, but I think that's occasionally true for many, if not most, users here. It's probably better to just ignore him if he provokes such a strong response for you rather than going back and forth for ten pages.

THIS IS A MESSAGE FROM SMARTICLE

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

Antisemitism is a serious issue, but if an actual discussion about how matters are moderated on here were to happen, an actual review would find that an over-correction has occurred since 2023 in the name of tackling antisemitism inadvertently often resulting in accidental pro-Israel framing.

There is pro-Israel framing from you guys, but it isn't an accident, nor is it grounded in any statistical knowledge about which posts are warned.

If you want me off your neck really all you have to do is state that you don't think Jews should be eradicated and it's blowing my mind that you'd rather do mental gymnastics than say that.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Sheep

13 hours ago, Sheep said:

It's down for maintenance actually

not the Little Monster on Little Monster crime... be a sister

4 minutes ago, Sheep said:

If you want me off your neck really all you have to do is state that you don't think Jews should be eradicated and it's blowing my mind that you'd rather do mental gymnastics than say that.

32 minutes ago, Communion said:

Not this mirroring the literal tactics of Zionists.

"BUT DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS GOVHOOKA??"

Jesus Christ.

Okay we've jumped the shark here. Let's wrap it up, y'all.

Let's get Civics unhidden within the hour and forget this last 24 hour mess didn't happen for the sanctity of everyone involved.

I don't want to hear the word "Discord" again for at least another 6 months.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Communion

14 minutes ago, Communion said:

Let alone, that we have no ability to even know what the antisemitic comment by GovHokka was because the entire section was angrily hidden in a rush after a Discord fight. So much so that the subsection was only hidden at first, not the threads themselves.

You continuing to repeat this doesn't make it so.

Anyways, i'm tired of your essays in HQ.

Thread ban plugin officially active.

16 minutes ago, suburbannature said:

There are antisemites on this forum, but I definitely don't think @Communion is one of them. Do I think he argues in bad faith sometimes? Sure, but I think that's occasionally true for many, if not most, users here. It's probably better to just ignore him if he provokes such a strong response for you rather than going back and forth for ten pages.

The moment we have a plugin that completely blocks someone from showing your posts, quoting you or more, the better off we'll be.

1 hour ago, Balthier said:

You won't realize that you started to treat me like **** months ago, or maybe you don't remember tbh, but every time I wanted to speak on this topic, I've received a bad response from you, and that was before I attacked you or said something against you

You started this, not me. I don't deserve this treatment from you and I think you don't deserve this treatment from me either

I'm sorry if I called you a coward and for the attack last week, we can have a better relationship, I just want someone to answer what I asked, what can I do to gain my reactions back because there's has to be a way

You're right. PM me later and we can discuss it.

47 minutes ago, Communion said:

It's just insulting to people's intelligence for people double down and gaslight people that what they saw occur as an emotionally-charged decision was not.

Nobody's gaslighting youre being dense and acting like every single conversation that was relayed to you by other people happened at the same time The personal spat between GovHooka & Graffiti and Graffiti's alleged demand for a reaction button removal were two separate conversations that took place

Moderators, people who were in that conversation and people who backread it ALL told you the real version of events and you keep finding a single point in everybody's sentences to harp on to come up with your own truth of the situation that you were not involved with at all.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by lgaga1fan

7 minutes ago, Communion said:

Jesus Christ.

Okay we've jumped the shark here. Let's wrap it up, y'all.

Let's get Civics unhidden within the hour and forget this last 24 hour mess didn't happen for the sanctity of everyone involved.

I don't want to hear the word "Discord" again for at least another 6 months.

omg he still didn't do it. How can some of you not see how blatant this is?

Edited June 14Jun 14 by Sheep

49 minutes ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

Civics is coming back right? what is this argument even about atp

Yes.

Waaaaait @suburbannature I think I got it!!

Let me reach out to the developer for a demo-test.

Just now, Rian said:

Waaaaait @suburbannature I think I got it!!

Let me reach out to the developer for a demo-test.

Am I about to be free of the two remaining JLo fans