13 minutes ago, Communion said:

I am not a college freshman in Sociology 101 in the year 2009. The outdated ideas of Standpoint Theory are not an incantation. Identity as a fetishized projection of self doesn't hold any magical powers no matter how much you repeat it over and over.

Abstract concepts like identity and sense of self do not change the material reality of Israel's genocide in Gaza.

Was it anti-white for the nation of Rhodesia to be dissolved and something anew to be created in its place? To slander those who reject the fascist, nazi-like ethnonationalism of the Israeli people as antisemitic amidst a genocide is why Zionism is rightfully being recognized for the far right movement it is.

The Israeli people hold up the belief that the Israeli state must be a majority Jewish nation and that the only way to maintain this artificial ethnic majority is the genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. Thus it is the rational, logical, and humanist stance to support the eradication of the Israeli nation state and "Israeli" as an identity - again, no differently than how there are simply no such things as Rhodesians anymore, but simply white Zimbabweans.

I do not care who you think you are nor what you think you know. Your personal experiences ultimately mean nothing if your ~lived experiences~ bring you to the frontlines of cheering on a genocide like as though you are a German staring out your window in the 1940s.

You're arguing against identity essentialism while simultaneously reducing millions of people into a singular fascist caricature. That contradiction undermines your entire point.

Opposing the actions of the Israeli government, condemning war crimes on both sides, or advocating for Palestinian liberation does not require advocating for the "eradication" of an entire national identity.

Historically, the idea of a distinct modern Palestinian national identity developed literally in the 20th century alongside the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, British colonial rule, Arab and Islamic nationalism, and later the Arab-Israeli conflict. Prior to that, Arabs living in the region identified more broadly through regional identities tied to places like Syria, Greater Syria (Bilad al-Sham), or the wider Arab world rather than through a fully separate nation-state identity as understood today. The territory itself was ruled for centuries by larger empires — Ottoman, then British — and was not an independent sovereign Palestinian state. During the early 20th century, many political figures and movements in the region openly discussed concepts like "Greater Syria," which included present-day Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Israel/Palestine as part of one broader geographic and cultural region. Jordan itself was also originally part of the British Mandate territory before being separated into Transjordan. That's also why it's historically inaccurate to claim the conflict has always simply been "Palestine versus outsiders." The borders, identities, and national movements in the region evolved over time and were shaped by colonial partition, wars, Arab nationalism, as well as Jewish nationalism, displacement, and competing political aspirations. None of this erases Palestinian identity, however it does challenge the narrative that there was always a fully independent Palestinian nation-state identical to how modern activists often portray it today.

There are currently around 50 Muslim-majority nations and well over 100 Christian-majority nations across the world. By contrast, there is only one Jewish-majority state. At the same time, Jewish people are such a small minority globally, making up literally 0.2% of the world's population.

The existence of a nation with a religious, ethnic, or cultural majority is not unusual in global history or modern geopolitics. Many countries were founded around shared national, linguistic, cultural, or religious identities while still containing diverse minority populations within them. Israel being a Jewish-majority nation does not automatically equate to ethnic cleansing or genocide any more than Muslim-majority or Christian-majority countries inherently do. Millions of Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Druze, Bedouins, and other minority groups live within Israel in peace and participate in public life, vote, work, attend universities, and serve in government, medicine, law, media, and the judiciary, including hosting pride events for the Middle East. However, minority groups do face discrimination, legal inequality, and in certain cases serious human rights abuses in countries under Sharia Law such as Iran or even in Palestine under the Hamas charter.

Criticizing governments and policies is fair game in any democracy. But reducing the existence of the world's only Jewish-majority country to "fascism" or claiming its people must lose their identity entirely is not a serious or consistent standard when viewed in a global context. Once you move from criticizing a state and its policies to declaring that an entire people's identity should cease to exist, you stop making a humanist argument and start engaging in collective dehumanization.

Also, the Rhodesia comparison falls apart under scrutiny. Rhodesia was a colonial minority regime denying political rights to the Black majority. Israeli and Palestinian histories are far more complex, involving competing national movements, displacement, terrorism, occupation, regional wars, and generations of civilians born into the conflict on both sides. Flattening that into "all Israelis are genocidal ethnonationalists" is rhetoric, not analysis.

People can oppose both Hamas and the Israeli government's actions in Gaza. People can mourn Palestinian civilians while also recognizing that millions of Israeli civilians are not interchangeable with their government. Human rights are not conditional on whether someone fits your political framework. And comparing ordinary Israelis to Germans passively watching the Holocaust while simultaneously advocating for the destruction of "Israeli" identity is not morally clarifying — it's inflammatory absolutism that treats entire populations as politically disposable. That kind of rhetoric does not move people toward peace, liberation, or justice. It entrenches hatred further.

Like I said, the Middle East and North Africa is not a single story, and no group of people is monolithic. There are serious and well-documented human rights abuses across multiple countries and regimes in the region, and those deserve consistent condemnation regardless of ideology or politics. At the same time, it is inaccurate and harmful to generalize entire populations or movements as uniquely evil or responsible for every atrocity attributed to them.

If we care about human rights, the standard has to be consistent: criticize governments and armed groups where they commit abuses, but avoid turning that criticism into blanket judgments about entire peoples or identities. That's the only way discussions like this stay grounded in reality rather than turning into dehumanization.

Edited May 14May 14 by Culture Is Lit

2 minutes ago, BjorkIsMyMom said:

I just don't understand what kind of environment this forum wants to be. After so many members have basically harassed and slandered me and continue to push lies, I question what the site's end goal is.

What lies are they pushing other than you being Jjang (which Ive already refuted)? Do you really think people are going to be okay with you actively defending MJ the way you are?

The Israelis came in and stole land that didn’t belong to them, under the guise of being the chosen people and thus was entitled to it, reduced the Palestinians to essentially concentration camps and have forced them to live under occupation for decades. But we’re not supposed to discuss the corrupt government being thrown out (or those who support it and them)?

They have been engaged in ethnic cleansing, oppressive subjugation, human rights violations and more. Those are facts.

1 minute ago, Rian said:

What lies are they pushing other than you being Jjang (which Ive already refuted)? Do you really think people are going to be okay with you actively defending MJ the way you are?

It is seriously disturbing the way members are treating and trivializing CSA/sexual assault and how comfortable they think I seriously defend pedophilia/rape. It's so irresponsible and I have already made it abundantly clear that I deeply care about that topic and how it's to be approached. As I said it's not about being a fan of his, I care about being coherent and whether the details are adding up.

1 minute ago, BjorkIsMyMom said:

It is seriously disturbing the way members are treating and trivializing CSA/sexual assault and how comfortable they think I seriously defend pedophilia/rape. It's so irresponsible and I have already made it abundantly clear that I deeply care about that topic and how it's to be approached. As I said it's not about being a fan of his, I care about being coherent and whether the details are adding up.

Your rhetoric is not matching your intent if you’re to be believed.

what the fawk ATéRL!! i can't believe i missed all the @Firelight dupe fun and now i'm here and @BjorkIsMyMom is getting close to a ban? it must be christmas

14 minutes ago, Rian said:

Mods have been discussing since 10:00 am a course of action. Please don't make assumptions.

This kinda sounds like yall preparing for war

1 minute ago, Rian said:

Your rhetoric is not matching your intent if you're to be believed.

What rhetoric?

33 minutes ago, PenguinTim said:

While we have the whole forum here, would any of y'all be up for participating in a Meghan Trainor discography rate

She really re-heated Ariana's Be Alright nachos on this.

I'm screaming at the logo

Anyways, I'm kinda done discussing anything to do with MJ or Katy Perry. At that point it's just repetition. I guess we can agree I'll stop discussing it for the best.

bjork you have to let it go at some point. it's every slightly contentious topic with even the smallest amount of attention you are jumping head over heels to be an aggrieved party within. it literally doesn't matter what it is. i can't imagine being this bored to be this pugnacious

MJ gets an ATRL jail banner but not Nicki/Kenneth? We must be unbiased to all rapist. I vote an Onika jail banner next

11 minutes ago, mxoonlight said:

bjork you have to let it go at some point. it's every slightly contentious topic with even the smallest amount of attention you are jumping head over heels to be an aggrieved party within. it literally doesn't matter what it is. i can't imagine being this bored to be this pugnacious

I guess it's a vibe thing where I could be coming across as too intense.

24 minutes ago, Culture Is Lit said:

Once you move from criticizing a state and its policies to declaring that an entire people's identity should cease to exist, you start engaging in collective dehumanization.

Exactly. The Israeli apartheid state relies on the co-opting of Jewish suffering to humanize the genocide intention innate to the Israeli national identity.

The only way to overcome the propaganda of the Israeli apartheid state is to de-humanize the Israeli national identity.

Just like no ~lived experiences~ of yours could ever justify your defenses of genocide, no co-option of lived experiences can justify the modus operandi in the concept of an "Israeli" national identity, ie: a pretext to the establishment of an "Israel" aka a racist settler state predicated on the cleansing of the land of Palestinians.

No grandstanding is going to work. You've already lost the very people whose progressive language you hope to co-op.

If you want to actually get back to why this conversation is even taking place - just as Michael Jackson's fans have to accept that they'll never be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube and undo how the stain of being accused as a child molester will forever lose him people who care about children, you nor your fellow Zionists - and the pro-rape nation state you defend - will never win back anyone who fashions themselves as a caring about human rights.

Just as it's futile and tactless for MJ fans to antagonize those who've read testimonies of child victims, your decision to constantly antagonize those who have seen with their own eyes children's tiny bodies be ripped apart by Israeli weaponry shows you do not yet know what you've signed up for to defend.

19 minutes ago, Graffiti said:

Sis, you were tagged because you knew Jjang.

Dupe discussion are silly beyond naming names and demanding answers. Get the staff out here and put them on trial!

If someone thinks someone is a dupe, tells the mods. In most cases, it's easy enough to discern from their IP and the other information only seen on the staff side. Asking for someone's opinion on whether x user is y user is silly cause sis, how would I know? ddd

For example, in my past temporary weeks or months of being banned, people even claimed some random person was secretly me simply cause "the writing style" despite that my writing style is so uniquely annoying that I am easily one of a kind! One of one!

Edited May 14May 14 by Communion

The last ten or so pages since I last read here

The essays and fights

HQ truly the gift that keeps on giving

Anyway, I'm sure all will be resolved in the way we're all hoping!

jjang this jjang that who tf is jjang

6 minutes ago, Bussea said:

jjang this jjang that who tf is jjang

Someone that @BjorkIsMyMom seems to know a lot about even though they were never in the forum together

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

I'm screaming at the logo

Michael Jackson is on ATRL Trial™️

In the court of ATRL, he is GUILTY

Did we close the political section? Am I in the wrong area?

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Exactly. The Israeli apartheid state relies on the co-opting of Jewish suffering to humanize the genocide intention innate to the Israeli national identity.

The only way to overcome the propaganda of the Israeli apartheid state is to de-humanize the Israeli national identity.

Just like no ~lived experiences~ of yours could ever justify your defenses of genocide, no co-option of lived experiences can justify the modus operandi in the concept of an "Israeli" national identity, ie: a pretext to the establishment of an "Israel" aka a racist settler state predicated on the cleansing of the land of Palestinians.

No grandstanding is going to work. You've already lost the very people whose progressive language you hope to co-op.

If you want to actually get back to why this conversation is even taking place - just as Michael Jackson's fans have to accept that they'll never be able to put the toothpaste back in the tube and undo how the stain of being accused as a child molester will forever lose him people who care about children, you nor your fellow Zionists - and the pro-rape nation state you defend - will never win back anyone who fashions themselves as a caring about human rights.

Just as it's futile and tactless for MJ fans to antagonize those who've read testimonies of child victims, your decision to constantly antagonize those who have seen with their own eyes children's tiny bodies be ripped apart by Israeli weaponry shows you do not yet know what you've signed up for to defend.

Middle Eastern politics isn't a game—real human lives and consequences are at stake. And once again, your arguments cross a dangerous line from political criticism into a collective dehumanization and blatant antisemitism, which ultimately undermines the very human rights framework you claims to defend.

If the goal is understanding or justice, the conversation has to stay consistent: apply the same standards of scrutiny to all historical claims, and distinguish between governments, ideologies, and civilians. It's also important to acknowledge that both sides are and can be complicit in this specific given context.

Those who left or had to escape the Middle East due to human rights abuses aren't looking for validation or approval from progressive or Western audiences. These are, unfortunately, lived experiences under countries with religious-fascist dictatorships. A country that polices women's bodies by enforcing things such as the mandatory hijab and so forth is something that you won't ever have to experience unless you lived in the Middle East. A country that legalizes child marriage is something you clearly don't seem to care about. A country that kills 30,000+ people in two days doesn't seem to bother you at all. There's already a long history of African and Middle Eastern struggles being underreported, oversimplified, or framed through selective bias and sometimes even false narratives in Western media. Why should I expect someone living in the comfort of their home in New Jersey, who has never been to the Middle East nor who seems to be willing to educate themselves to fully grasp the realities of humanitarian crises going on in North Africa and the Middle East, that they clearly haven't researched or experienced?

I even explained how women in Iran have faced serious repression, including punishment and even death in cases tied to compulsory hijab enforcement. I talked about how women are being targeted by acid attacks and pellet guns to permanently blind them. But instead of engaging with that reality and even showing an ounce of empathy, you resort to minimizing that pain and struggle by reframing it through political labels rather than addressing the human impact.

This isn't about denying anyone else's suffering—it's about asking for consistency, attention, and serious engagement with human rights abuses wherever they occur. I highly suggest you read about Arab nationalism and earlier Islamic conquests —including the Arab-Islamic expansions beginning in the 6th and 7th centuries—and what they did or were accused of doing through rape, slavery, torture, ethnic cleaning and more, etc. These are facts, grounded in the history of the 6th and 7th century Middle East, whose political, religious, and cultural ideologies are echoed today. Yes, it may be uncomfortable or difficult for someone like you to fully comprehend, but it reflects a shared reality and a common concern among those in the Middle Eastern community, centered on human life and basic human decency. And just as I can be American and hold my own government accountable, I can also be Arab and critically condemn actions taken by governments in my ancestral region. And if you don't understand it today and choose to keep debating Middle Eastern conflicts without deeper context, hopefully you'll come to understand it more clearly over time. Maybe try talking to gays who escaped from countries like Afghanistan and Iran in fear of persecution. There are also Kurdish, Armenian, Assyrian, Coptic Christian, and other minority communities who faced severe displacement and who are currently going through ethnic cleaning. Many members of these communities now live in diaspora around the world and in the U.S., and can further offer firsthand perspectives on life in the region that go beyond headlines or simplified narratives. Listening to a range of lived experiences can help build a more nuanced understanding of the Middle East rather than relying on a single viewpoint from things such as western media sources and so forth.

Edited May 14May 14 by Culture Is Lit

Communion is typing…