1 hour ago, Timeless said:

The album thread is so overly negative ugh I hate it here.mp3

Let's take a hiatus

24 minutes ago, Lemon said:

Pink Clouding is everything Afterglow isn't despite Afterglow being strong song on its own.

She is human, aware of the flaws, she channelled Getaway Car energy here in terms of character(s).

And the production is great.

It really is fully on Taylor Swift song, all shiny and emotionally honest.

!!! I love it so much .

It is so Midnights coded in its theme and writing and would have fit on that album perfectly. It even has that word salad(compliment) like Hits Different and You're Losing Me

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by mael

She really made the most obnoxious over the top showgirl tune you can think of because of the "not showgirl enough" criticism she went petty with that one

I do think it's important to not dismiss some of the legit criticism as just "haters are gonna hate" when there has been a clear stagnation in her output since Midnights. Speaking of which, that album got alot of hate from the usuals as well but it ultimately didn't matter since it was a solid pop album.

I do think the current discourse about her artistry is healthy for her, if it actually penetrates her bubble.

Me literally all day because I actually love all four songs and wasn't sure I would:

7 minutes ago, dman4life said:

I do think it's important to not dismiss some of the legit criticism as just "haters are gonna hate" when there has been a clear stagnation in her output since Midnights. Speaking of which, that album got alot of hate from the usuals as well but it ultimately didn't matter since it was a solid pop album.

I do think the current discourse about her artistry is healthy for her, if it actually penetrates her bubble.

TTPD is a strong work of art. There i say it.

So Showgirl while not being a very good album has its moment and understandably to come right after the depressed Poets. Its just the expectations are always insane for her and each groups of people want her to release in a direction that they want. And its valid,we all want our fave to do this and do that. But in the end lets respect an artist artistry and lets them create and release what they want.

Showgirl is a silly fun era, but the amount of tik tok about this is same girl who wrote folklore is insane. When she release another folklore then that group will be happy but another group will be pissed. Its a dilemma that she cannot win so she choose to stay true herself and i respect that and enjoy the ride. (In short: maybe not enjoy full of showgirl but i can get behind the ideal)

14 minutes ago, dman4life said:

I do think it's important to not dismiss some of the legit criticism as just "haters are gonna hate" when there has been a clear stagnation in her output since Midnights. Speaking of which, that album got alot of hate from the usuals as well but it ultimately didn't matter since it was a solid pop album.

I do think the current discourse about her artistry is healthy for her, if it actually penetrates her bubble.

Listen, if we want to keep it real and honest, out of these 4 songs, Cleveland is the clear outlier in terms of being "beneath her" capabilities. The song is not focused and drags on.

But Patient Zero and Pink Clouding are instant Swiftian signatures. No scientific doubt about that.

But here is where she shouldn't let herself listen to the "criticism".

Reputation was polarizing, but today (not just today as in this day) it is used as an example where she "had been artistically pivoting".

Even Lover discourse shifted over time and is now used as an example of "how good she was". Moreover, Lover would be received in an exact same way after something like Eras Tour and two more biggest music's accolades.

The same people that are on her neck now are the same people who had been on her neck as always.

Actual musicians in majority all agree that Taylor as their colleague is a phenomenon in this craft.

She as an artist is not interested in editing herself for the sake of record being more… compressed. Music is her life's vent, so if anything, at least she is most surely authentic author.

56 minutes ago, punisher said:

this just isn't true and ultimate copism

like why would her fans want to hate her music?

because y'all are weird

I definitely think the hate is forced, but putting out a song like Cleveland right now....she kind of gave people a reason to drag her and the original album again, I don't understand how she didn't anticipate a reaction like this It's a bummer because I think the other 3 songs are good (I really love them) and they really aren't worth the extreme reactions they're being attached to. I don't think there would be quite as many drags today if it wasn't for that one song.

Hopefully Patient Zero becomes a cute hit and I'm sure the video will be great, but I'm ready for this album to be left in the past. Would love if she gave us Debut TV while she lives a little life to get inspired again and hopefully make some kind of pivot for TS13.

Babylon is pen worthy, but the chosen production is not up to the notch, it gets lost.

But she brought her fire with Patient Zero and Pink Clouding.

Had Showgirl been full of Ophelias and Opalites world peace would've been achieved by now

24 minutes ago, dman4life said:

I do think it's important to not dismiss some of the legit criticism as just "haters are gonna hate" when there has been a clear stagnation in her output since Midnights. Speaking of which, that album got alot of hate from the usuals as well but it ultimately didn't matter since it was a solid pop album.

I do think the current discourse about her artistry is healthy for her, if it actually penetrates her bubble.

a lot of the songs on the album are explicitly stating how she doesn't care tbh

24 minutes ago, dman4life said:

I do think it's important to not dismiss some of the legit criticism as just "haters are gonna hate" when there has been a clear stagnation in her output since Midnights. Speaking of which, that album got alot of hate from the usuals as well but it ultimately didn't matter since it was a solid pop album.

I do think the current discourse about her artistry is healthy for her, if it actually penetrates her bubble.

I think she's had plenty of very strong material (mainly just TTPD, which was her most inspired and interesting album in a long time), she just hasn't had a real pivot moment since folklore. It's kind of like how before that, Lover felt like stagnation since she hadn't had a real pivot since 1989.

But like Lover...hopefully she gets some of the criticism and decides to make a pivot next.

I am so happy for Pink Clouding.

If she ever pivots to shimmering lounge type of subdued dance/rhythmic music, this production is it. Euphoric.

I can't go to bed from constantly replaying it.

Ophelia

Pink Clouding

Opalite

Oh, she wanted that dazzling trio.

Everyone gets swept up in the emotions too easily. People complained endlessly about 1989, reputation, Lover, TTPD when they came out.

Now 1989 is pop bible, reputation is the cult classic, Lover is her most successful album post-1989 and TTPD wins every fan poll for favorite album in 2026.

Give it time.

3 minutes ago, chiliam said:

TTPD is a strong work of art. There i say it.

So Showgirl while not being a very good album has its moment and understandably to come right after the depressed Poets. Its just the expectations are always insane for her and each groups of people want her to release in a direction that they want. And its valid,we all want our fave to do this and do that. But in the end lets respect an artist artistry and lets them create and release what they want.

Showgirl is a silly fun era, but the amount of tik tok about this is same girl who wrote folklore is insane. When she release another folklore then that group will be happy but another group will be pissed. Its a dilemma that she cannot win so she choose to stay true herself and i respect that and enjoy the ride. (In short: maybe not enjoy full of showgirl but i can get behind the ideal)

I actually love TTPD so I'm definitely not trying to downplay it. But otherwise, just for me personally it's a balance of accepting her artistic output as it is while also being honest in expressing when she's capable of more. I do love that she releases whatever she wants, whenever she wants. I just think with Showgirl there was a noticeable decline in quality (other than a few songs) that legit caught all of us off guard

But like I said I do think the discourse is healthy for her since she's historically been receptive and reactionary to genuine critique from her fans. I think we'll be in for a treat for TS13. You are right about ppl having insane expectations instead of just accepting who she is as an artist.

17 minutes ago, MissedTheTrain said:

I definitely think the hate is forced, but putting out a song like Cleveland right now....she kind of gave people a reason to drag her and the original album again, I don't understand how she didn't anticipate a reaction like this It's a bummer because I think the other 3 songs are good (I really love them) and they really aren't worth the extreme reactions they're being attached to. I don't think there would be quite as many drags today if it wasn't for that one song.

Literally Eldest Daughter all over again

"cleveland!" is quickly becoming my soty so please keep the unholy and slanderous comments to yourself because i simply will not

11 minutes ago, MissedTheTrain said:

I definitely think the hate is forced, but putting out a song like Cleveland right now....she kind of gave people a reason to drag her and the original album again, I don't understand how she didn't anticipate a reaction like this It's a bummer because I think the other 3 songs are good (I really love them) and they really aren't worth the extreme reactions they're being attached to. I don't think there would be quite as many drags today if it wasn't for that one song.

Hopefully Patient Zero becomes a cute hit and I'm sure the video will be great, but I'm ready for this album to be left in the past. Would love if she gave us Debut TV while she lives a little life to get inspired again and hopefully make some kind of pivot for TS13.

I though the whole point of Cleveland was to say she knows it's panned but shes fine with it? She even made Cleveland purposely obnoxious because of the criticism of the album being "not showgirl enough". I dont think she cares that she comes off goofy and I actually like she embraced it for a song without worrying that people find her "cringe"

This thread I love when people pretend her entire back catalogue doesn't exist because her latest album isn't great. It's never just "this song is bad", it somehow snowballs into "she was never good", "Taylor has never written a song as good as Everytime", etc

20 minutes ago, Sasori. said:

a lot of the songs on the album are explicitly stating how she doesn't care tbh

I mean of course she says that but I think we all know Taylor still craves some sort of validation (atleast from her fans), just not nearly as much as she did earlier in her career.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by dman4life

Really, I don't see how she doesn't change sonic direction after this. I do love all four songs, and I'd be happy to keep getting pop music from her - but being honest, she has to be getting a little bored, no? These songs might be a deviation, but like I've said before, sound rather like the pop songs she's been making basically from 2019 onward. Like... if you told me all these songs were from the sessions from the same album:

• The Archer

• Miss Americana

• Cornelia Street

• Death By A Thousand Cuts

• Afterglow

• Gold Rush

• Marjorie

• Anti-Hero

• Bejeweled

• Mastermind

• The Great War

• Hits Different

• You're Losing Me

• Fortnight

• So Long London

• Guilty As Sin?

• loml

• I Can Do It With A Broken Heart

• "Sl*t!"

• Say Don't Go

• Now That We Don't Talk

• Suburban Legends

• Is It Over Now?

• The Fate of Ophelia

• Opalite

• Honey

• Patient Zero

• Pink Clouding

... I could totally believe it, with a little bit of convincing. Obviously they have differences and nuances and I'm not saying they're same-y or otherwise problematically similar, but they have the same underlying thesis of what a pop song should sound like and what works best for her voice, her sense of lyricism and imagery, and the sort of artistry that she wants to be her brand. I think that's part of the fatigue for people who aren't enjoying it and part of the disconnect between people who are loving it and those who aren't. There's always going to be some undercurrent of her own particular approach and artistry that remains consistent, but I think it's time for things to change a little and I think she's aware and ready - hence courting the country side of the industry again.

She knows what works well for her - further evidence of that is that two songs I didn't list here, Ruin The Friendship and Babylon, seems sonically self-referential in a different way, in that they feel like they call back to Red very actively and intentionally. The problem even with that is that, well, she's been there, done that, perfected it, and it's no longer compelling to some people.

For better or worse part of what makes art worth making and worth taking in is that it's fluid and that it changes. This is the natural breakpoint at which that needs to happen. If it doesn't, I'll frankly be shocked - and we should expect critics to continue to hate her work, internet trolls to continue to circlejerk about it, and more fans to grow out of engaging with her work. I'll be perfectly fine, and I'm sure many of you will too, but that's just sort of how I feel, even sitting here absolutely loving the new songs.

the negativity might actually be breaking me a bit guys. i don't even dislike these deluxe songs (dont love them either), but the overwhelming negativity and litigation of the validity of her entire career, claims of ghostwriting, etc from people who are in the fandom, bandwagoners who enjoyed like 2 eras and dipped years ago but still check in every album release just to drag her again, ppl who don't think she's made a single good song in her career, ppl who think she's hitler. its exhausting. im barely feeling like listening to any music rn but esp not hers, which sucks bc ive never had the negativity get to me like this. the internet is a f*cking scourge

6 minutes ago, MissedTheTrain said:

This thread I love when people pretend her entire back catalogue doesn't exist because her latest album isn't great. It's never just "this song is bad", it somehow snowballs into "she was never good", "Taylor has never written a song as good as Everytime", etc

That's the person who was terrorizing the base 12 hours before encore dropped pretending they were listening to it because it was "all over Twitter."