1 hour ago, Freaky Prince said:

Wasnt the Caution Tour struggling to sell out theaters?

Oh wow. I just looked up the numbers for that tour. She did such small venues and yet a lot not even sold out

After the Caution Tour numbers and the lipsync/drunk incidents while doing performances they have to repair her tour and live reputation and she’s already a veteran so I think the only way they could made her having good numbers again is book her on a lot of TV performances and show them that you still has it + having an actual hit maybe.

 

Anyway I’m sure if she decides to tour for her next era her numbers will be WAY better than that Caution tour. New generations are now into her thanks to TikTok so she basically has to sing Obsessed, It’s a Wrap, Bye Bye, All I Want For Xmas, Emotions, Fantasy and We Belong Together because that’s what the general public loves from her and she’ll be fine 

1 hour ago, Both Sides Now said:

This thread set up 

 

In the 90s, touring was not as lucrative as producing CDs so Mariah focused on pumping out an album year after year. She never established herself as a touring artist in a similar way to her peers. 

 

…Mariah is also not a great live performer and it’s as simple as that. She never danced and she’s not as dynamic as other big vocalists like Céline. Most people would only know her live performances from the NYC disaster. 
 

I have seen her live during Caution Tour and she is decent but I would still opt to see other divas before her. 

 

Mariah is a studio artist, her voice It's not meant to be sold on stage.

In the 90's, she was releasing music frequently and promoting it extensively. A tour would have been difficult to fit into her already exhausting schedule. 

 

But in the last decade, that has changed and she's touring a lot more. 

1 hour ago, Lover said:

 @stevyy

Dec 13 + 16 2022 - 23,484 - $3,641,811 - Madison Square Garden

The two Toronto shows weren't reported. I think she made like $6 million from those 4 shows. 

I will leave this here and retreat. Yalls can continue discuss the Caution Tour or whatever.

 

I will occasionally return to post her Tokyo Dome numbers, of anyone's interested.

She makes more money with royalties from her impressive catalogue of hits. She doesn't need to tour and she's never established herself as a touring force. Like other members have echoed, it is challenging to tour excessively for a discography with many vocally demanding songs. Mariah is also not a dancer and her voice is only just okay these days but idc I still had a good time at her Christmas shows in Radio City Music Hall and I also enjoyed watching her perform at VH1's Unsilent Divas Night back in 2016 at the Kings Theater. I was so happy to see Chaka Khan, Vanessa Williams, Jojo was there too and she did well but for me Patti Labelle delivered the best performance 

She has toured much more extensively in recent years compared with the first decade+ of her career. She’s not as strong on touring stats as her peers because she never really established herself as a live act and typically those artists build that reputation from early on in their careers. Mariah focused most of the first half of her career on writing and recording new albums instead of touring.

I guess she doesn't want to. She has a family and a life to live right now. Touring isn't worth it for her since she earns way more from royalties. Touring only applies to newer acts who have to make a buck from concerts since streaming doesn't really pay the bills.

Also, Madonna and Celine have bigger showmanship than Mariah so it makes sense why the GP would want to go to their concerts instead of a Mariah one. Mariah would pull a Rihanna at the Superbowl: stand there, looking pretty, fail at lip sync and that's it.

People say because of deteriotating vocals, but Celine also has to rely on playback and pre-recorded vocals just like Mariah, so I don't think that's the case for her.

Because she doesn't have too. Unlike some of her peers, owning her publishings, she was making the majority of her profits from her catalog. 

She's done so much touring since 2015.

“Didn’t establish a touring base in the 90s” is the lamest excuse ever, it’s not all the same people who went to her peers’ 90s tour that are going to their current tours.

 

She just doesn’t have the demand you would expect from her sales because they were inflated given that she was literally married to the head of her label

Cause she can't sell out venues. 

15 minutes ago, Oktober Knight said:

Cause she can't sell out venues. 

She just sold out four random arena shows.
 

She didn’t establish herself as a touring act in her vocal and commercial prime (only 14 shows between 1990-1997). But even with her limited touring in the 90s, she sold out 9 stadium shows out of 18 total shows in 1996-1998.
 

And set a few random stadium records (Tokyo Dome, Hawaii, her 2014 China stadium tour).

 

She, like Whitney, had a very sensitive instrument that she tried to protect in the 90s, but inopportune touring still eventually contributed to both of their vocal declines. Whitney, btw, played smaller venues (even 1/3 theaters) during her peak tours like Bodyguard. 

Edited February 15, 20233 yr by suburbannature

What does touring extensively even mean?

 

Concert shows per decade:

 

24 shows - 3 tours - 1990s

129 shows - 3 tours - 2000s

167 shows - 8 tours - 2010's

4 shows - 1 tour - 2020s

 

Residencies

4 shows - 2000's - Residency - Pearl

36 shows - 2010's - AIWFCIY - Beacon / Las Vegas

50 shows - 2010's - #1 to Infinity - Las Vegas

25 shows - 2010's - The Butterfly Returns - Las Vegas

 

Concerts performed:

24 - 1990s

133 - 2000s

278 - 2010's

4 - 2020s

= 439 shows

 

Her 2010's profile being bigger than her 2000s and 1990s profile added together. I think that's a decent amount. 

7 hours ago, Both Sides Now said:

This thread set up 

 

In the 90s, touring was not as lucrative as producing CDs so Mariah focused on pumping out an album year after year. She never established herself as a touring artist in a similar way to her peers. 

 

…Mariah is also not a great live performer and it’s as simple as that. She never danced and she’s not as dynamic as other big vocalists like Céline. Most people would only know her live performances from the NYC disaster. 

7 hours ago, zach said:

I think it's also of the times. Tours weren't as extensive back then in general.

This isn’t totally true as Mariah’s superstar peers (Janet, Whitney, Madonna, Celine) were doing tours with 120+ shows back then.

In addition to above, her songs are also very hard to sing. A LOT harder than Celine's, for instance. She uses different techniques in a song that can easily wear her voice out (whisper, belting, fry, whistle).

Of the 3 90s divas, she also has the lowest speaking voice, so i assume to reach the same notes as Celine and Whitney she has to really work harder. So what I'm saying is her singing is highly unusual and, while very masterful, it's not for back-to-back concerts.

 

Also, unlike Celine who has basically sung the same type of songs to the same type of audience throughout her career, the Mariah of the 90s catered to a very different audience than the Mariah of now. Can you imagine stanning for "Hero" Mariah and watching a show with GTFO or Obsessed? But Mariah is aware of this and doesnt care because she cares more about making the music that she wants rather than singing schmaltz. 

Edited February 15, 20233 yr by banterfly

Because she struggles to walk unaided let alone perform?

8 hours ago, GiftFromGod said:

She's got the hits.

She's got the talent.

She's got the stage presence.

She's got the demand.

 

Why hasn't Mariah toured extensively?

Does she tho?

^Also same thing with Madonna. I may be wrong about this and I'm happy to be corrected, but Madonna's target audience has been the same throughout her career. She's had "reinventions" in her imagery, but music-wise it's the same pop music dressed differently (of course, there are brilliant exceptions to this). The people who were fond of her in the 80s are the same type of people who continue to like her now because she never veered too distantly from the provocateur pop rebel that she was. This is absolutely not a bad thing. In fact, this explains her everlasting appeal among her fans.

 

Mariah, on the other hand, was an adult contemporary artist at the beginning who was competing against Whitney and Celine to a pop/r&b singer in the late 90s  who was hanging out with rappers and competing with Britney, JLo and Xtina. The shift in her imagery and music was almost fundamental she barely resembled her early 90s self.

13 minutes ago, HïFidelity said:

This isn’t totally true as Mariah’s superstar peers (Janet, Whitney, Madonna, Celine) were doing tours with 120+ shows back then.

Madonna's biggest tour before 2006 had only 57 shows 

14 minutes ago, MESSIAH13 said:

Madonna's biggest tour before 2006 had only 57 shows 

Sister M was doing stadiums during the WHO’s That Girl and Blonde Ambition tours so she didn’t have to play as many dates… but you know what I mean.

 

 

I don’t think Mariah was the type of performer to sell out stadiums multiple nights.

Her voice is too fragile and she doesn't have a good reputation as a performer (see NYE 2014) unlike her peers.

 

Also, it's for the best tbh. I'm fine with her annual mini Christmas tours.

 

Most fanbases are always happy when their faves annouce a new WW tour but for us, it can be such an anxiety-inducing situation because we can't help wondering whether she'll struggle or not vocally during the show and hoping she won't get dragged by the media for it.

Even in 1995 during the promo of her Japanese concerts, she said and I quote: "I'm hoping that I can finish the tour", when talking about her voice because her music is so hard to replicate live with all the layers. 

 

Some performers would have been vocally shot after her first song during the Daydream Tour which was Emotions. 

I also don't get the theatres drag, Mariah usually performed in 10-20k arenas (and still does). The CB Tour in the US and the Caution Tour (in the US) being the only exceptions. 

 

Her biggest countries for concerts remain the UK and Japan (along many other Asian countries). 

 

I wish she would finally visit South America for a concert. Since 2003, she's sold 2 million albums in Brazil alone. It's time to appreciate that audience. 

 

One thing will remain tho, she will stay a 2nd tier touring artist, but that's OK. She can still book any venue she wants and continues to perform. She should give us a new album and then tour again.