sales = you have the power

popularity = public has the power

In the real world they're synonymous. Twitter "iconic" is its own thing. Look at the CM most consumed artists of all time. The top consumed artists are also all the most iconic. 

Beyond a certain point, I'm not sure if either are necessarily that important.

 

Imagine your fave is 30 and has a net worth of $60 million, they can retire tomorrow and pay themselves one million dollars a year until age 90, and if they actually spend that million each year, they might then have to live off the interest they earned over their lifetime. What does more sales actually mean to them?

 

Of course, they could use it as an opportunity to take some risks, but most play it safe.

 

Popularity is great, but it might also mean you have no privacy outside of your luxury mansions and celebrity retreats full of other bored and out of touch celebrities.

 

Bach was relatively unknown as a composer during his lifetime.

His sales probably weren't that impressive.

2 hours ago, Letemtalk said:

Beyond a certain point, I'm not sure if either are necessarily that important.

 

Imagine your fave is 30 and has a net worth of $60 million, they can retire tomorrow and pay themselves one million dollars a year until age 90, and if they actually spend that million each year, they might then have to live off the interest they earned over their lifetime. What does more sales actually mean to them?

 

Of course, they could use it as an opportunity to take some risks, but most play it safe.

 

Popularity is great, but it might also mean you have no privacy outside of your luxury mansions and celebrity retreats full of other bored and out of touch celebrities.

 

Bach was relatively unknown as a composer during his lifetime.

His sales probably weren't that impressive.

Basically for the vast majority of artists, discussed on here, they might get 3-6 years ( very approximately!!) of "peak" where they are being streamed by the peak music consumers, say 14-24 year olds (again I'm generalising), before either the next bright young thing comes along all shiny and new, and the next lot of teenagers see them as their "thing", and you become a bit old hat relatively, or the artist's life itself moves on (marriage, kids, just not wanting to tour around the world aged 30 compared to 20- it happens).

 

Very very few get beyond that. Question is can you a) make enough money out of your peak, b) keep your sanity and have a happy rest of your life.

 

 

Edited August 28, 20251 yr by Vermouth

If I would be an artist I'd rather have sales/streams because that brings in the money. High sales/streams also usually means you're popular.

 

Just for popularity I wouldn't care much.

 

As a listener I prefer talent and quality. 

both thats why I stan caroline polachek 

 

Objective numbers and revenues. The more money you make, the bigger your brand can be. Massive tours and stages, lavish lifestyles that the media covers, big advertisement deals, memorable expensive outfits, hanging out with other celebs in the top A-list circles, social media power. This is what makes a superstar a superstar. It won't happen if a small group considers your work iconic and memorable, critics rate it high, but your career goes nowhere beyond that.

If I'm a new artist I want sales because I can negotiate a better deal.

 

If I'm a veteran popularity but not sales means my name still holds value and I can tour for the rest of my life without new music anyway.

 Look at some of these popular songs, one hit wonders. Sure, you'll be popular for a while but thats it. The moment the hype around you dies down its over. 

Id rather have sales. Look at Lana Del Rey for example, she wont have streaming monsters and top ten hits but her album sales are always amazing and she has a strong fanbase that will carry her untill the day she retires

 

You're not popular if you don't sell.... 

 

??? 

6 hours ago, Onyxmage said:

BRAT was also the most critically acclaimed album of the year but I guess my opinion is based on nothing. Throwing in the random Kamala shade was cute though. At least you tried.

The OP is about sales vs popularity, not critical acclaim

There's no meaningful distinction between sales and popularity 

They're usually related but sales all the way because one has to pay bills you know.

9 hours ago, Popboi. said:

The OP is about sales vs popularity, not critical acclaim

BRAT was also an extremely popular album last year. That's strike 2. 

18 hours ago, Onyxmage said:

Of course ATRL would say that sales are more important than anything.  This is why I will never take any debates about artistic integrity seriously on here. If we only went by sales then eras like BRAT would be irrelevant and not matter and we know thats absolutely not the case. 

The flip side, though, is that someone like Lil Nas X who's always in headlines can be said to be "more popular" than many MPG's who are currently more musically relevant than him. 

 

17 hours ago, Incandescent Glow said:

You are joking right? Rolling In The Deep and Someone Like You (and lowkey Hello) are the closest thing to actual classics (not the classics ATRL constantly talks about aka merely enduring hits) that there is over the last 2 decades at least. Everyone from age 5 to 85, across ethnicities and around the world knows these songs. 

 

Popularity isn't just getting viral TikTok. It's about being known to the biggest group of people possible.

I like the example of Brat used previously. It's closing on 4B streams, so it's not a flop by any means, and reflect a certain degree of popularity. But generally, I think it's the recent album with the biggest dissonance between how big people think it is and how big it actually was. And that speaks to something that I think is not always clear for everyone: your algorithm isn't everyone else algorithm. Many people were bombarded with Brat content in the second half of 2024. Many people have no idea at all what it is. 

 

Popularity and sales go hand in hand. You don't get one without the other, especially when you are still in the early stages of your career. Once you have a legacy, you can remain popular based on your name alone and don't need recent music to be selling to stay relevant I guess. 

Exactly. 

 

Even my relatives who don't listen to English music at all in Central America know who Adele is and her music. 

 

 

Edited August 28, 20251 yr by Storm653

On 8/28/2025 at 5:46 AM, Badgalbriel said:

You're not popular if you don't sell.... 

 

??? 

 

On 8/28/2025 at 12:50 AM, DevilsRollTheDice said:

In the real world they're synonymous. Twitter "iconic" is its own thing. Look at the CM most consumed artists of all time. The top consumed artists are also all the most iconic. 

Everyone knows Jennifer Lopez or Justin Timberlake, they are real popular and iconic, but that doesn't mean their albums and tours are selling well...

26 minutes ago, Mr. Loco said:

 

Everyone knows Jennifer Lopez or Justin Timberlake, they are real popular and iconic, but that doesn't mean their albums and tours are selling well...

Are they really popular? They're past stars, but definitely not popular. Popular would be Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Beyonce. Not Jennifer F-ing Lopez

On 8/29/2025 at 12:36 PM, Badgalbriel said:

Are they really popular? They're past stars, but definitely not popular. Popular would be Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Beyonce. Not Jennifer F-ing Lopez

If everyone knows who they are is because they are somehow popular, even if they are still not selling well...

I don't think it can be separated; today's streams have thousands of bots, autoplay, and artists fake sales with multiple vinyls. To measure someone's fame, you need all the parameters: sales, streams, popularity, impact...

4 minutes ago, xTurn said:

I don't think it can be separated; today's streams have thousands of bots, autoplay, and artists fake sales with multiple vinyls. To measure someone's fame, you need all the parameters: sales, streams, popularity, impact...

How's multiple vinyls fake sales? Someone purchased the album and vinyls are often very expensive. A sale is a sale. Manipulation of sales with massive discounts (e.g., $5 albums) are true fake sales.

 

Also you can't have impact without sales. Every single big impactful artist were big sellers in some part of their career. 

 

Name one artist who's career has been a flop yet is influential. 

4 minutes ago, SoundsandSongs said:

How's multiple vinyls fake sales? Someone purchased the album and vinyls are often very expensive. A sale is a sale. Manipulation of sales with massive discounts (e.g., $5 albums) are true fake sales.

 

Also you can't have impact without sales. Every single big impactful artist were big sellers in some part of their career. 

 

Name one artist who's career has been a flop yet is influential. 

I'm not talking about the vinyls sales being fake per se... I think it's clear I'm talking about people getting more sales bc stans buy multiples vinyls, and massive digital albums... 

 

Obviously I don't think the post is about some incredibly flop people that no one knows about.

But I think Charli xcx is one of them, even Brat what is her sucessful album it can't be compared to Taylor, Beyoncé o Gaga. So her streams and sales are low but she has influenced new artists.

 

What I mean with those 'fake streams or sales' it's similar to back in the day 'radio payola' The Gaga/Katy thing is a great example. Both start really strong but Katy had multiples number ones bc the radio overplay her. The Katy payola on the radio was massive but when the radio stop playing her songs people forget about her and nobody seek for new katy music anymore but Gaga even when she flopped it didn't hurt her bc she has the impact, fanbase (better music but it's my opinion) so today she is still relevant, famous and bigger hit maker.