7 hours ago, swissman said:

!!

 

I also think a lot of fans forget that she's already told us what she wants. And then they fault her for not fulfilling what they want. That whole thing about Nina Simone in the "quick lil singles" speech speaks volumes about her motivations now, and she is showing us time and time again that her focus is on personal legacy, not keepning up with everyone else.

I understand fans want both, but I do think 4 shook her a bit as the first time since her DC debut that the usual promotional tricks didn't result in a blockbuster era, and it is obvious that this is the moment she threw the Matthew Knowles handbook out and started completely fresh. She's literally never gone back to that style of existing in the pop industry since. Because actually, her goal was to become a legend, not a pop-icon, and one simply does not need hits to do that, ESPECIALLY when you have a career already full of them. And still, she's had several since 2011 too. And more importantly, even her non-hits have had huge impact in culture.

 

And as much as people hate on her "arrogant" persona or whatever, her approach (mixed with great works) has undoubtly fast-tracked her legend status and made her into one of those "goddess-like" ethereal icons such as a Sade that everyone at least kind of respects even if the music isn't their taste.

spill

There's going to be more interest in any Renaissance film/visual compared to The Gift/Black Is King by default. The Gift was not a Beyoncé album, it was a collaborative project held together by her. The songs didn't make much noise, the Lion King didn't have much lasting impact despite smashing box office, and Black Is King premiered on a new streaming platform that had not much else to offer.

 

Renaissance is a hit album. It's a Beyoncé record. Two hit singles, supporting tour on the way... This is a whole event. I'm sure she'll have cameos and a narrative that will make headlines. Whenever this comes, I know it'll be good.

 

Until then, just listen to the music y'all. It's fujcking great

Could care less about the Year End lists on a personal level (as there's long been an air of pretentiousness with critics), BUT I do like how well this bodes for the story around her Grammy nominations. 

 

She's consistently ranking #1 by a lot of big / respected outlets and when not #1 she's higher than most/all of her competition in the big four categories. Have no clue if there's any overlap between the critics who decide these  things and voting members, but it a) serves to her benefit during voting period and b) will make Grammys look crazy if they don't do right by her in the some/all of the big four.

 

I know a lot of y'all are supposedly "over" the Grammys, but let's be real they do matter and she/Parkwood definitely care. 

19 hours ago, swissman said:

My comment was simple.

 

By releasing a "visual" that is PURELY a showcase of fans engaging with the song, after famously releasing NO videos for the album after famously releasing videos for EVERY song for her last 3 albums, I think Beyoncé has underlined an intent for the music reach people without guiding choreography, aesethetic, or even political input that official music videos often provide, and that in this way it becomes a more organicly felt and connected with sonic experience, free from the trappings of visual marketing. You know... like the disco era itself.

 

 

 

Thx for the patronizing lol.

I very much got your point (since that's literally the basis of our exchange) and I was simply not in agreement with that vision. A video that is faithful to the vision of the artist w/shouldn't be trapping of visual marketing, it would never subtract, only add. And the idea that an artistic expression of any kind can take away from art "being more organicly felt" deeply bothers me. I also think that view is a disservice to videos and to visual artists defacto but I've already said that. 

Nevertheless it was an interesting discussion to me, exchanging opinions on stuff like that envigorates me. 

 

But let's agree to disagree and stop there because as a quick reminder that this thread is not the place for it, that simple exchange triggered full caps here, the difference between understanding and disagreeing being completely lost in translation.

 

------------—--------

 

I do hope we get two more singles and live performances of POTS and Virgo's Groove () and move on to the tour and the next album.

I just don't think Renaissance warrants a movie (although AHAP having a video could be cute but an amazing live performance instead will work just fine). That's why the lack of visuals does not bother me at all bar the singles. I much prefer and anticipate performances. 

 

By the way it's the first time in her whole career that Beyoncé doesn't just have the most acclaimed female album, she has the MOST acclaimed album of the year! 

And BMS might also get close to it for songs. 

Despite Kendrick releasing this year. 

 

It is surreal to me. 

I knew it was coming but still, an incredible career she has. 

3 hours ago, BnPac said:

Thx for the patronizing lol.

I very much got your point (since that's literally the basis of our exchange) and I was simply not in agreement with that vision. A video that is faithful to the vision of the artist w/shouldn't be trapping of visual marketing, it would never subtract, only add. And the idea that an artistic expression of any kind can take away from art "being more organicly felt" deeply bothers me. I also think that view is a disservice to videos and to visual artists defacto but I've already said that. 

Nevertheless it was an interesting discussion to me, exchanging opinions on stuff like that envigorates me. 

 

But let's agree to disagree and stop there because as a quick reminder that this thread is not the place for it, that simple exchange triggered full caps here, the difference between understanding and disagreeing being completely lost in translation.

 

------------—--------

 

I do hope we get two more singles and live performances of POTS and Virgo's Groove () and move on to the tour and the next album.

I just don't think Renaissance warrants a movie (although AHAP having a video could be cute but an amazing live performance instead will work just fine). That's why the lack of visuals does not bother me at all bar the singles. I much prefer and anticipate performances. 

 

I am sorry I didn't mean for it to be patronizing. I was just trying to summarize my point after you wrote, "I just feel like if "just the music" was her intent, why release compilations and visualizers for songs at all?"

 

It's not a disservice to visual artists to say visuals add further context to a song. That's not a surprise to them. It's part of the goal of a video in the first place. Beyoncé surely knows that.

 

Videos DON'T detract from a song. I've never claimed that. But while you may think of Thriller, Single Ladies, WAP, Oops I Did It Again, etc. beyond their videos, a big part of the way the public has engaged with and carried their legacies is through the music video itself and the songs' legacies will always be associated to them. So choosing NOT to release a video whether intentional or not, WILL have the effect that the music is 100% the reference point, and all feelings (positive or negative) will be "organically felt" through the music. I mean, haven't you ever not liked a song until you saw the video and it made you like it? I have, and though I don't think the video MADE me like the music, it changed how I related to it, making me enjoy it. Organic? Sure, maybe. But not without influence outside the msuic itself.

 

Even in Beyoncé's own work like with Formation...the video adds HUGE context to the song that really only the opening lines gave in the song (and in the video, she changes it so the opening verse happens twice to really underline the point). In the video the police cars, the "don't shoot", the southern beauty and footage, and all this further expanded the message. For Renaissance, there may be message we haven't gotten yet without videos, but it seems she's asking US first to define it for ourselves before she gives us the blueprints, and in doing so gives the audience a different kind of interaction than we have been conditioned to from her, or any other artist.

I also have a lil theory that her not releasing the visuals, and not promoting the album has shifted the experience such that it almost feels niche and in an "underdog" category.  I know the music is amazing enough to be placed so high on critics' lists, but critics notoriously love stuff that is not explicitly mainstream, or obvious, and I do think that Beyoncé is smart and knows how anything she does gets amplified to the max, so her doing the least can actually be to her favour. There is, after all, a lot of optics in the music industry. I don't necessarily think had there been visuals/promo she wouldn't be praised (because she has been with Lemonade and ST too) but at this moment, after 3-back-to-back visual albums, there is value in holding back ESPECIALLY if you intend to release 3 "things" from the same project. You kind of need to keep people wanting more if you have a lot you're planning on giving.

3 hours ago, Cbreezy said:

Could care less about the Year End lists on a personal level (as there's long been an air of pretentiousness with critics), BUT I do like how well this bodes for the story around her Grammy nominations. 

 

She's consistently ranking #1 by a lot of big / respected outlets and when not #1 she's higher than most/all of her competition in the big four categories. Have no clue if there's any overlap between the critics who decide these  things and voting members, but it a) serves to her benefit during voting period and b) will make Grammys look crazy if they don't do right by her in the some/all of the big four.

 

I know a lot of y'all are supposedly "over" the Grammys, but let's be real they do matter and she/Parkwood definitely care. 

Her biggest competition is Bad Bunny. He’s topped a few other lists and has the critical acclaim. If she loses it would be to him.

32 minutes ago, swissman said:

am sorry I didn't mean for it to be patronizing. I was just trying to summarize my point after you wrote, "I just feel like if "just the music" was her intent, why release compilations and visualizers for songs at all?"

 

Haha, no problem. 

Btw my point with that sentence was that I was not as convinced as you that that's Bey's intent because of the teaser etc. But it very much could be indeed. Idk, you're probably have a point there. 

And I very much understand your opinion, I am just a fierce partisan of any visual expression. 

32 minutes ago, swissman said:

I mean, haven't you ever not liked a song until you saw the video and it made you like it?

I have and that's why I am such a defender of them not being subtractive but additive and even organic.

They can add depth. They can draw a person that is visual in, a person who didn't "click" with a song first.

But it's just as organic imo, just as deep imo. It is just different, it just gives another layer, another door because some of us experience everything with more than one or two of our senses at the same time even if we are not always conscious of it.

But once you get into the music, the music is there. When you hear that song on the radio, you experience just the music, when you go running with it, you experience just the music. Even if you recall parts of the video, it's still just the music for me since that artistic expression is just a continuation of it. 

So for me it's just as organic. It's just another way. A way that works for some and not others. 

4 minutes ago, BnPac said:

Haha, no problem. 

Btw my point with that sentence was that I was not as convinced as you that that's Bey's intent because of the teaser etc. But it very much could be indeed. Idk, you're probably have a point there. 

And I very much understand your opinion, I am just a fierce partisan of any visual expression. 

I have and that's why I am such a defender of them not being subtractive but additive and even organic.

They can add depth. They can draw a person that is visual in, a person who didn't "click" with a song first.

But it's just as organic imo, just as deep imo. It is just different, it just gives another layer, another door because some of us experience everything with more than one or two of our senses at the same time even if we are not always conscious of it.

But once you get into the music, the music is there. When you hear that song on the radio, you experience just the music, when you go running with it, you experience just the music. Even if you recall parts of the video, it's still just the music for me since that artistic expression is just a continuation of it. 

So for me it's just as organic. It's just another way. A way that works for some and not others. 

I can totally see what you mean and don't think any of it is wrong at all... just that I think Beyoncé, ever trying to do things differently is taking another approach and using whatever benefits that approach may offer (such as letting people 100% come up with their assoiations/meanings/feelings to the music without her using other forms of media to convey it...in doing this it puts a LOT of importance on the music itself).

 

Also, not sure if this is a factor, but the idea that Beyoncé "needed" visual albums to sell her work, or the idea that Lemonande isn't a great album but that the visual album made people like it (this is often said on ATRL) is side-stepped completely by the fact that Renaissance is a hugely acclaimed album without one visual contextualizing it. Again... she probably didn't withhold release visuals due to prove something releative to ATRL hate but to me, she is always ever saying "you thought? you thought wrong."

I hope you guys don't get false hopes though, AOTY is cool but it's not that important imo. 

 

And it's not just Beyoncé. In the latest years hugely acclaimed don't win that award. It goes to traditional albums that are accessible. 

 

The most acclaimed artists with sometimes the 1st or top 5 most acclaimed album in a given year:

Kanye West 

Kendrick Lamar 

Frank Ocean 

Radiohead 

PJ Harvey 

Fiona Apple 

Robyn

 

None of them won it. The last album that was acclaimed that much by critics and rewarded with AOTY was in 2004 : Speakerboxxx/The Love Below by Outkast. 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by BnPac

46 minutes ago, swissman said:

I also have a lil theory that her not releasing the visuals, and not promoting the album has shifted the experience such that it almost feels niche and in an "underdog" category.  I know the music is amazing enough to be placed so high on critics' lists, but critics notoriously love stuff that is not explicitly mainstream, or obvious, and I do think that Beyoncé is smart and knows how anything she does gets amplified to the max, so her doing the least can actually be to her favour. There is, after all, a lot of optics in the music industry. I don't necessarily think had there been visuals/promo she wouldn't be praised (because she has been with Lemonade and ST too) but at this moment, after 3-back-to-back visual albums, there is value in holding back ESPECIALLY if you intend to release 3 "things" from the same project. You kind of need to keep people wanting more if you have a lot you're planning on giving.

This makes a lot of sense and I thought about this too. She has somewhat, in a way, centered herself as the “underdog” which actually works in her favor with music buffs. 

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by simon

28 minutes ago, swissman said:

I also have a lil theory that her not releasing the visuals, and not promoting the album has shifted the experience such that it almost feels niche and in an "underdog" category.  I know the music is amazing enough to be placed so high on critics' lists, but critics notoriously love stuff that is not explicitly mainstream, or obvious, and I do think that Beyoncé is smart and knows how anything she does gets amplified to the max, so her doing the least can actually be to her favour. There is, after all, a lot of optics in the music industry. I don't necessarily think had there been visuals/promo she wouldn't be praised (because she has been with Lemonade and ST too) but at this moment, after 3-back-to-back visual albums, there is value in holding back ESPECIALLY if you intend to release 3 "things" from the same project. You kind of need to keep people wanting more if you have a lot you're planning on giving.

All of this makes sense as an intended move, but also totally works alongside the possible scenario that something went wrong and they are essentially Olivia Pope-ing the situation. Put simply, it works as a retroactive "it was the plan all along thing".

 

I'm inclined to believe what you described to be a positive by-product of an otherwise complicated/chaotic situation behind the scenes. 

 

That said, not sure the visuals were ever intended to arrive on July 31st alongside the album. I recall the insider tea about how the album originally being due around her 40th in 2021 before being changed into a multi "act" project. Even then, there were no visuals lined up. Which I think supports your point about it being very intentional to hold back to a degree. They've done their research and know they had to switch it up. I just can't be convinced that it was meant to be "THIS" long.

25 minutes ago, swissman said:

but the idea that Beyoncé "needed" visual albums to sell her work, or the idea that Lemonande isn't a great album but that the visual album made people like it

!!! And that's precisely what my first comment alluded at because you said it in a way I misinterpreted it. Which prompts my reasoning that if people feel like experiencing an album without videos makes the experience superior or deeper (Ofc now I know that is not what you meant) then it makes those people right. But mostly I thought about TW. 

Spoiler

I had one of my best musical experiences ever with The Wall. For my first job, my boss, another music fan, but snobby who thought rock was all there was, who I used to fight with because he didn't know rock was invented by black people and because I told him his favorite group in the world Queen was complete trash and made him discover Aretha, Otis, Prince etc wanted to bring me a bit to his side. 

He urged me to listen to his favorite album and gave it to me : The Wall by Pink Floyd. Until that point I had never listened to the album in full and he told me : "here take the CD/DVD, listen and watch the movie please, it's a masterpiece" he said. And I did. It was a punch to my guts. Watching the movie after my listening experience : everything was just much fuller, vibrant, more expressed, sadder, more tragic etc. In a way the vision of the artist's words came to life in a way that was surreal. I think people with opinions like that don't know what they're talking about or are untrue just for quick drags which ultimately shouldn't matter. 

But on that subject : haters are going to hate and forget the excuses they throw eventually. 

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by BnPac

Hi hive   I recently bought some premium early entry for The Weeknd's show in Nice, France. It looks like the venue (Allianz Riviera Stadiums) isn't really a popular one for concerts, and Beyoncé is the only artist that's performed there in the past years. Has anybody been to that show? I'm italian and going to France because they picked a horrible venue for my country, so I'm a bit anxious about it, I'd like to know if VIP holders are usually separated from the rest of GA (it'll be in july so the more room to breathe the better), how early you're getting in compared to the others, what time you have to show up and how VIP tickets work. My ticket says the show is at 19pm, which is a bit weird because all the other dates start at 21pm according to ticketmaster. Any concert expert opinion is valid and appreciated anyway. Thank you!

 

 

Lots of comments asking “song?”. She needs to promote her songs because people are missing HITS and CLASSICS 

17 minutes ago, Anvarie said:

 

Lots of comments asking “song?”. She needs to promote her songs because people are missing HITS and CLASSICS 

amblicky @ 1:01

 

"Instagram she is stealing music end her live"

 

  

Man, Blow is that song

 

I forgot

My theory is Beyoncé wanted to make the Hive become experts in inventing theories! Thus preparing us all for eventual Phd's. Hence the "I'm a doc in a nurse I'm a TEACHER" yup yup

Edited December 8, 20223 yr by Calypso
Typo

Who here had "Make Me Say It Again, Girl" in their Spotify Wrapped Top 100 tracks

 

#92 for me, (extended version)

2 hours ago, Anvarie said:

 

Lots of comments asking “song?”. She needs to promote her songs because people are missing HITS and CLASSICS 

We been saying the new generation aren’t familiar with her besides Halo and probably Cuff It now.  

4 minutes ago, Starshine said:

We been saying the new generation aren’t familiar with her besides Halo and probably Cuff It now.  

I mean, Blow wasn't a hit so I wouldn't expect a normie to know it lol

7 minutes ago, Armani? said:

I mean, Blow wasn't a hit so I wouldn't expect a normie to know it lol

It’s a HIT in my millennial eyes.  jealous was a popular one too. Self titled was the last album where even my friends who don’t follow her knew the non singles.

She has good taste

I forgot how big self titled was on social media, especially Vine. It was that album that year where people actually sat down and listened to an album start to finish. The amount of references even from the non-singles. The surfboart Drunk in Love reference. The ‘I woke up like this’. The collective stanning from the GP. 

Renaissance is sort of reminiscent of that to me with TikTok and just how everyone views it as a great body of work.