swissman

I think part of it is she's not exactly making of-the-moment pop. It's surely quite mainstream and commercial, but it seems to be more conceptual and referential and textural than stuff like Espresso or Pink Pony Club or Driver's License or the retro vibe of Olivia Dean that keeps coming back.

are you trolling with this thread? this is the fourth time you are not using the meaning of your own words correctly. here, you are telling me you don't make the rules after scolding me for not following what you said this thread should be about.

Your logic is flawed here. If Heartbreaker is a Mariah Carey hit, presumably because it's her song and on her album and he's just the feature... ...then so too should Empire State of Mind be a Jay-Z hit as it's his song on his album and Alicia Keys is just the feature. Not to mention, you already named this song in the OP, why is it not allowed now?

But you said she's "literally the definiton of a local artist" which does not mean "she's local relative to other a-listers".

ANYWAY: Hard Knock Life went top twenty in many countries around the world (solo song) Empire State of Mind was a huge hit Holy Grail was a moderate hit Suit & Tie was a moderate hit Heartbreaker was a HUGE hit around the world Does that answer the question?

So Jay-Z, one of the most respected rappers of all time, is not a generational talent but a general celebrity? Famous for what, exactly? One could say now "famous for being Beyoncé's husband" but he was already a "celebrity", confined to rap or not, before they met, and that was because of his music, not for being attached to other talents.

Kylie Minogue is not the literal definition of local artist. "Local" literally means confined to a particular area, not areas. She may not be the most global, but she has had success all across Europe, in Oceania, and has considerable success in Japan. The fact that America doesn't care for her (she still has two top ten hits there), doesn't mean she's local. The only continents she has not toured are Africa and Antartica. She was touring Latin America just last year, 26 years into her supposedly "local" career.

what is the purpose of this thread if you're going to answer it yourself and also say that it's the only answer? like, you have the song and are claiming there are no more options, so what are we supposed to discuss? a weird attempt at shade, if that.

what a weird thing to sue for... you are worried that people will think Lady Gaga endorses your brand? and that's a thing you need money for?

Then the title of this thread should be: "Jay-Z gives Rihanna a compliment shading Kanye" not "Jay-Z gives Rihanna a backhanded compliment" they mean two entirely different things. and even then, since he used plural when referring to the type of person who is not loyal, one would expect that perhaps it's Kanye and others, not just Kanye.

lol

It would perhaps come across as arrogant if he only said "she rides hard for us" but "the way we ride for her" but he did say that, so this thread is kinda just making a big deal about nothing.

using her to shade someone else is still not a backhanded compliment if she's receiving none of that shade herself but all its praise.

No, that's not a backhanded compliment, which is positive words hiding negative inferences. for example: "you look really good today, what did you do differently?"

this is not "backhanded" at all. it's just not what you seem to want him to compliment her for.

This ... is a reason, I guess. but it doesn't actually make sense. like I'm sure there is a Country Album winner that is 100% "traditional," does this mean it has the Contemporary Country Album-win now?

Yes, after Beyoncé won they split the category to "best traditional country album" and "best contemporary country album."

lol

The fact that the RENAISSANCE WORLD TOUR's opening section had (I think) just ONE repeat look (two, maybe) for all the 56 shows, of which each was basically a couture, custom piece of high fashion shows that Beyoncé exists alongside brands that are considered "luxury" very comfortably or they wouldn't have been so eager to do free work. These luxury brands were creating costumes for her knowing the exposure they'd get, and it shows a level of brand affinity across luxury brands and a "luxury artist". Anyway, outside of her own musical work which we know is well-regarded as being of a certain quality, Beyoncé also has multiple parfums (not perfumes!), an award-winning whiskey label that was a joint venture with LVMH until she bought all ownership, a hair-care brand that is considered "high-end," as well as, in recent years, being an ambassador for Tiffany's (a collaboration which saw her wearing exclusive, custom Tiffany's pieces throughout the RWT), so I think it's hard to say that comparatively she is not regarded as having a brand of luxury when discussing her in context with other popstars.

while I'm unsure if they fit the title, it's refreshing to see them award someone who is not simply on a promotional run. or maybe I just don't know and there is some sort of nirvana project happening, but it seemed like the last handful of awards was just "Who has iconic videos and is releasing an album this year?"

also the Michelin vs. McDonalds thing does work as a metaphor in terms of sales. is it a coincidence that her highest selling album is the most commercial-sounding, and used time-tested genres and styles? Not only is, as has been shown, Beyoncé's music generally at a higher price than her peers, but she does make more challenging works that are not always attuned to what the average, everyday listener wants. This is yet another thing that aligns her more to Michelin over McDonalds. Whereas fast-food chains try to appeal to everyone, a Michelin restaurant creates meals with more specific appeal. The average diner isn't going to be interested in something conceptual or that features ingredients, cuisines or preparations they are not used to. I'm unsure why people get so annoyed by this comparison. Sure, Beyoncé as a mainstream artist is always going to be mass-marketed and somewhat available in comparison to someone like let's say, Solange. But if we compare her to other artists who are far more focused on broad appeal, there's really nothing you can say to suggest Beyoncé is a McDonald's popstar.

This is simply not true. Since Beyoncé has been marketing herself as more of a "luxury product" in pop music, her album prices have been notably higher than the average cost. Let's review prices: When Beyoncé surprised released an album in 2013, the digital price was $15.99 whereas most other albums were $9.99 That's 160% more When Beyoncé released Lemonade in 2016, the digital price was $17.99 whereas most others were still $9.99 but some were $11.99. That's between 180% and 150% more Even more recently, COWBOY CARTER was sold for $17.99 on iTunes. Comparatively, Taylor Swift's double album was $14.99. That is 120% more between Beyoncé and her peer. As for most currently, Beyoncé's B'Day reissue's standard edition vinyl was $45 but the deluxe (luxury) item is $150 Both versions of Ariana's Dangerous Woman reissue vinyls from this same year are $50 Even with their newest releases, petal standard edition is $13 and the B'Day one is $15 Clearly, Beyoncé does charge more for her products, even if its marginally at times (when it comes to standard edition CDs), and overall, the price of music is not the only thing that makes Beyoncé a more "luxury"-coded artist and we see that mainly in her ticket prices which is the biggest instance where people are buying into her brand, not just a piece of music.

even if you don't think she's a luxury brand on par with a Louis Vuitton, we can 100% say that comparatively she absolutely is one within the pop music sphere. to deny this is just delusional. there's a reason her name is a metonym for a certain kind of excellence, and why everyone who talks about her speaks with a reverence and love that an everyday popstar just doesn't receive. Part of it is her time in the industry, but it's also totally because of the consistently top-notch work work she's put out paired with the mysterious, out-of-reach aura she's cultivated since the mid-2010s.

A luxury brand is one that is: Perceived by the public to be of a greater "quality" or "design" (ie. concept, intention, purpose) than other similar brands on the market. One that generally has a quieter presence on the market, is not loud and try-hard in the marketing and has less marketing than the average brand (like you never see ads for Michelin star restaurants, but you see many fast food brand ads). OR: the marketing they receive is placed in more esteemed places/spaces, such as a huge Dior ad in the centre of the city vs. on a Billboard. One that has higher prices, and the higher prices don't seem to affect the business at the end of the day, in fact, they remain succesful even at higher prices than competitors because customers see them as a luxury brand and thus "worth" the spend OR something someone with money wants to spend on because of the status that is carried with it. Scarcity: the brand is generally not everywhere, and it not being everywhere adds to its allure, mystery, or hype. Beyoncé pretty much hits all these things. People should explain why her brand is NOT luxury rather than us having to explain something so obvious. Like, her last tour was pretty exclusive (32 dates), it had higher ticket prices than average, and yet still sold out and made over 400 million in revenue. If she was not considered a luxury brand, why would people be willing to pay MORE for her than anyone else? Is it because she is perceived to have higher quality tours (1), and thus they think the price is worth it (3) and because she doesn't usually perform on TV anymore, because her last tour film is not on streaming, it's more enticing to see her in person (4)? To say Beyoncé is not a luxury brand within the pop sphere is just odd. She's basically been that way since 2013's surprise drop where she totally separated herself from traditional-pop-marketing by limiting her promotion, offering high quality in the work, a higher price tag and an entire visual album, an exciting product that no one else was doing at the time.

You answered it yourself: "a luxury brand needs little to no advertising" You then go on to say that she's promoting a lot of the products she sells... and meanwhile BEYONCÉ has done nothing of the sort. Putting it on the site isn't promo. The word of mouth IS, and that's what happens with luxury items, too. And her shop promoting it is no different than Louis Vuitton putting their bags on their instagram.