Cbreezy

If this were to ever happen, I don't want to hear anything negative about Jay lol, because this is a chef's kiss rollout and is borderline altruistic. And that's even with them being in the same household. Which artist would headline Halftime and then hand another artist (albeit their wife) a coveted commercial slot to promote their own solo tour? Saint Hov lol. For real, it would actually be the most logical and thus likely to leverage HT towards the push for an OTR3, but it's safe to say none of us actually want that. The irony being that Halftime would be one of the only vehicles powerful enough to make OT3 an easy-ish venture for them. The audience is massive enough to offset any stan moans with enough GP to fill those stadiums. We'll see.

MTE. Atp, the "announcement" will be imminent or it really is some digital-centric repackage comprised of bonus material she can tack on to a streaming edition with minimal notice (if any at all, ahead of Sept 4) While I feel like sis stays making ish up as she goes along (e.g., this repackage to begin with), I do feel like this intentional muteness on her page is absolute strategy. Either to maximize the surprise factor when she does eventually post or because she is protecting her social capital to spend on Act III. Given that she/we are now sandwiching this random B'Day venture in the middle of a trilogy, the marketing geek in me is really intrigued about how she will make a demarcation between what is "main event" Beyonce content (e.g. Act III) and what is side-ish. It's such a random curveball that, of course, wasn't a thing with Acts I and Act II. I know some of y'all want promo, promo, promo. But I will preach this til kingdom come: Bey does not have an automated/bot-like base who will inhale any and everything she announces/pushes. Her thing is scarcity marketing, shock and awe, and capturing the zeitgeist. So, spending and replenishing this ought to be (and typically has been) a very strategized and tactile play. She's now in a spot where she has to make this B'Day thing feel big but not too enough to distract from what ultimately matters most: Act III.

Been sounding off about this in the album thread. First things first: LOVE them and wish them the breakout moment they deserve. That said, there are some glaring issues. While I generally think the argument that the "music isn't good enough" is low-hanging fruit and doesn't hold when considering how wack music does well, I do think there are notes for the material. They are taking the right steps to break out/crossover with songs like Leak It, Don't Break Her Heart, and Cry Ugly, but too much of the rest is still middle-of-the-road R&B. Just ilike the debut. It satiates their audience, but doesn't pack enough of a punch to get them out of the small bubble they are in. And it's not a genre thing. R&B can absolutely be big, compelling, and demanding of attention. They, however, seem content on playing in the middle. More than anything, though...The OP's # stack highlights the most pressing issue. They are doing an aggressive round of promo in the US, a market that clearly doesn't see it for them (chart-wise), yet not as much promo in their home market. I've always felt for them. They're legit between a rock and a hard place. They're a "UK group" pushing R&B in a region (the UK) that essentially doesn't push that. America, which does (celebrate the genre), has an overflow of homegrown R&B acts - thus making FLO's USP not as strong there. Those US numbers are dismal. Under normal circumstances, I'd be worried for their deal (especially with Republic in the US) and in a way I am. But, maybe their saving grace is touring $. They have a decent-sized following globally and seem to be always able to tour, which I imagine the label gets a slice of (360 deal). IMO, the future looks like any combo of the following: Album #3: Make-or-break project. Either they randomly pull off a surprise hit and benefit from cumulative audience building. Or, it's more of the same (not so much musically, but just this kind of coasting trajectory with no materially meaningful incline. It may sound slightly dramatic, but it really will be a deciding project IMO, because even from a product lifecycle standpoint, the group have already been together for six years now. By the next album, it will have been even longer. So, something's got to give in one direction or the other. Defining Season: Depending on the outcome of the next project, I think they are nearing that frame by which the type of act they will stand as will establish itself. Will they succeed as the next big girl group? Or be the group version of niche acts with cult (and mostly online) followings (like Tinashe, JoJo, Kelela). Booked and busy on the festival circuit, "freed" from the restrictions of major labels, but forever underrated/unsung. Solo: IIRC, I feel they've mentioned having spoken about this internally already, but are all systems go for FLO atm. The reality of the matter is that they are mid-ish 20s now, and will be further along come the next project. There is a time to strike, and it's arguably soon. At the same time, I'm actually not in a hurry for this. Loving their individual growth, but not sure I'd see it solo for any of them right now. Never say never, maybe the next MPG is currently in the group. Anyway this was way longer than intended, but love em, so invested!

I kinda feel the same. I am incredibly intrigued about their backend. Like, are they turning a profit? They almost certainly are on a 360 deal, so I can imagine the label makes $ back on their touring. But girl groups are a notoriously expensive operation. Then there's the three-way member split, all the writers, producers, handlers. Again, I'd love to know if - with these types of numbers - it's a profitable enterprise from a label perspective. That ultimately informs what the future looks like for our girls. If the numbers don't number from a label perspective, it becomes tricky. There'd be no business justification for more budget (unless the label does a make-or-break), which would probably make it hard for them to incline in any way and leaves them meandering at the level they are at now, which in turn expedites a possible indie run and/or solo projects. Something about them feels like "right group, wrong time". Because it feels like they'd have smashed in many previous eras in music (esp Y2K). But there's a seeming misalignment. Too R&B for UK mainstream success. Too UK to cut through in the US (with the wealth of homegrown R&B that's already there). Too Pop to dominate on R&B radio, too R&B/throwback to make any meaningful strides on Pop. They are also yet to have m/any meaningful features to help move the needle either. All that said, I am really willing them the best and hope everything ultimately works out. Be that with a breakout hit, cumulative success, or critical acclaim.

Love her down, but Cardi is so annoying sometimes. Everything feels so ad hoc. Why is she JUST doing a video for AH HA now? Like, is it that hard to plan a proper, timed rollout? Shoot looks great (and very happy to see her back in her choreo bag), but I worry she may miss the summer heat frame. It looks like the Kash Doll remix means they are looking to go all-out. Possibly with two videos? So, we'll see. Maybe a VMA performance? Willing her a top 10. But in her not aligning the "things", I worry it may instead serve steady hit and peak moderately rather than fulfil it's potential. We'll see.

Leak It randomly grew on me way later, but in hindsight, it really was the best lead. Success/virality-aside. The misstep, IMO, was dropping the title track at all. It caused a lot of confusion. As a casual fan who dips in most when the era is underway, it was a lot to process. The album is called Therapy at the Club (implying something uptempo, club-like) yet it was teased incessantly with the title track (snippets, live performances) that were anything but was in no way evocative of what was expected. Indeed, said song had the same sort of doo-***-y, syrupy slow jam vibe of unreleased tracks on their debut. More than anything, it's the antithesis of this project's title/alleged vibe. Then add in the fact that I'm certain we were getting snippets of other songs (like Remedy etc) at the same/similar time. It was all a bit confusing. DBHH is actually their best swing of a bat at a hit single in the vein of Cardboard Box since Cardboard Box. I've high-key been jarred with them because it's like they were doing everything in their power NOT to tap into that when in reality such sound is their strongest potential for making a commercial breakthrough. It works for all formats and still allows them to feel authentic to the rest of their discography. Leak It is indeed edgier and interesting sonically. But they have a weird predicament where they are both R&B and Pop. Pop (culture) would and somewhat did eat up Leak It, but I can't see it slaying R&B radio or Urban streaming (when ironically that is the hill the rest of their discography lives on). At the same time, the double-down on mid-tempo R&B for the rest of their output is unlikely to catapult them into MPG success. DBHH strikes the perfect balance. Had they been doing that consistently since Cardboard Box, I think they'd have been better set up to pounce commercially with the amazing Cry Ugly (which sounds like a darker, more grown take on the same theme). But, in a world where the GP "perception" of Flo is kinda still "that rising British R&B group, what are their names again?", I'm not sure Cry Ugly does enough to rope in the type of mass audience they are capable of . Would love to be wrong though. What I will say is that album #3 NEEDS to be their double down on whatever angle they want tot take for the future. So, If R&B act that feeds R&B lovers is their schtick, then more of the moody mid-tempos and less Pop attempts and hell no to Pose's lol However, if world domination is their aim, then Album #3 will need to be the back-to-front Poppy-bops, uptempo record they teased but didn't properly give us with this.

Great interview! They spoke in a lot of detail about their struggles:

And another thing....lol The Jay thing is jarring because I don't genuinely believe the Hive dislike him as much as they make out during frustrated vents. I think it's the reality that they stubbornly shove it down throats at the most ill-advised times. I think the culture receives them well as a unit (hence the buzz around whenever they pop out at each other's shows). But in later life, their team-up timing is so so off. We got the iconic BeyChella/Homecoming that left us salivating for the Lemonade follow-up. Instead, we get no album and OTR2. Bad timing. A Bey/Jay album was reportedly locked and loaded in 2014 around the buzz around DIL (perfect timing. Not released. By the time they force tour #2 on us, they don't have an album nor rollout planned, rush one during rehearsal, and flop worse than either of them have before. Bad timing. We're in the middle of a trilogy. Randomly doing B' Day reissue. No info. Fair if we are playing her mystery game. Fans confused and frustrated, but giving the benefit of the doubt. Her next play? Jay remix of a sleepy bonus track not even related to the album we're celebrating? Bad timing. It's not doom and gloom, because she always lands on her feet/wins. And I do feel some of this affects us as stans more than the GP cares or is even paying much attention to. But it's annoying mainly because if they played the timing card right, I actually think there is still a lot of mileage in the Bey/Jay collab thing. Let's not forget that Jay - in a very actual and factual way - is one of the greatest rappers of all time. When all is said and done, their musical legacies are inextricably interwoven, and some of their best work is with each other. They just need to line up their plans with what the culture wants and be ok with tabling said plans if it doesn't make sense in the moment.

I hear you, but I wouldn't say it's coast clear just yet. Stay with me lol. The Carters are clearly very culture-aware and, for as much as we drag, I think they read the room more than we give credit for. Note how, post EIL/The Gift (six-seven years ago!), Jay has generally fallen back and the "collabs" have largely been red carpet appearances, writing credits and the sporadic concert pop-outs. Nothing frontline on Rennie or CC. Not even the remixes. At the same time, it's about balancing their culture-awareness with two realities: a) they move as a unit and b) she loves that man down lol and thus will toss her own rulebook out the window to uplift him/them/their power couple status. As it stands, it's clear Jay is testing the appetite for him in the modern landscape with these spot stadium shows. There's a chance it's merely legacy polishing and some nice pocket change. Or, more realistically, it's a strategized lead-up to...something bigger. Roc Nation, just yesterday, denied that he has a new album ready to go. But I actually believe the rumors. The tea is that it's done, but he's looking for the right "partner" to push it. It's giving the vibe of his Samsung deal (remember that?). The tea-pourer verbatim said "he's not trying to do no 60k", so it's only coming out if he has the right infrastructure to push it. It makes total sense and is exactly how I felt any Jay album would have to land if not to flop post-444 and in the streaming era. After the tanking of EIL, I'm even more anchored in this stance. Bey IMO is his ace on a few fronts. It's a given that she will feature on any such project. He needs her more than the other way around musically. This, I imagine, they are probably very candid about with each other. But above all, and yes, it's been a slightly long-winded way of getting to it lol, Bey is crucially his ace card on the touring front too (where the real $$$ is made). Whether he has new music coming (which would almost certainly include new collabs with her) or a general need to hit the road in a more full-out way, it's clear as day that Bey will need to be involved to pull that off. From an optics perspective, he's pretty smartly done his "own thing" with these solo stadium shows, thus surface-countering any claims of relying on Bey should they announce OTR3 say...next year. As much I literally do not want it, stripping out all personal/stan-like feeling, there is a logical/practical argument that almost justifies them touring together soonish. Jay toeing the line of a comeback, Bey dropping Act III thus having a ton of new material. Good ol capitalism. Mixed with the reality, they, as a family, aren't about to go on separate stadium runs at the same-ish time. Long story short (lmao), with OTR3 feeling somewhat inevitable, I think the play simply ought to go: 2026 = Jay's spot shows + whatever this B'Day ish is 2027 = Act III music + summer tour Late 2027 or Early 2028 = OTR3, ultra-ultra limited, possibly even Vegas.

I hear you. But it's relative. Donk was presented as a "gift to the fans" and a light nod to the semi-virality of the sound on social. A signal of the countdown to the B'Day reissue. Without it "taking off" and simply doing "decently", they are now giving it the "lead" treatment. What's even more worrying is that, if she follows the same trajectory as Rennie and CC, we shouldn't brace for the pushing of any other song on the project...including the better ones lol.

For all the back and forth on here of late, THIS may be the most actual and factual take shared thus far! It's not that Donk is any worse than her other "ok" songs It's not that the Jay-Z remix is terrible - or, at least, not "as" terrible as claimed It's not there is anything wrong with her releasing this promotional single for the reissue BUT... Her going "relatively" hard with this is annoying when thinking about the level of dust she paid everything on Rennie and CC post the leads. I also don't get centering Donk (a non-B'Day song lmao)? I was certain we were about to get a new song/remix every couple of weeks. But sending to radio, playlisting, and now remixes and lyric videos. The confusion.

I've always wanted to weigh-in on the "she sabotaged Formation / missed out on an easy #1" thing. Because I'm not sure I agree. I really push back on this idea that she's this automated success ala some of her Pop-i-er peers. Taking an aerial view, Formation was actually a gamble. While Beyonce elevated hugely with self-titled and entered a new tier of respected/trailblazer because of it, the reality is that DIL was only "hit hit" from the era. I say that to say, it's not necessarily a given going into Lemonade that a Beyonce song that dropped out of the sky was guaranteed to slay. CRUCIALLY, then think about Formation itself: unapologetically Black, politically-charged visual, and sonically A LOT to take in. I think sometimes it's easy to look back with rose-colored glasses and hindsight is of course 20/20 because of how well things panned out. But I guess what I'm saying is that none of it's reception was a given. Also, for the very fact it was socially-anchored, I think it was a very smart move to all-at-once de-emphasise the commercial element, and center the message, while enjoying the virality and the "a top 10 that felt like a #1" status that comes with a unique smash like this. Had she pulled all the tricks etc for the #1, the convo could easily have pivoted to critique: Beyonce supposedly "exploiting" social climate for gain. IIRC, I feel like the video being unlisted at the time was actually semi-officially explained through this lens by her team or a "source" back then.

PREACH! MTE. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, because we are all entitled to our own opinions. But I feel like I'm seeing a whole lot of hyperbolic excitement from fans rather than frank takes on the album and its potential to put them where they need to be. I literally echo every single thing you said. Every single word. I also find it very odd that Flo does the most with their proclamations of love /stanning for their idols but rarely harnesses the things that made those artists' catalog so iconic. Catchy hooks, undeniable anthems, onslaught of back-to-back bops. I feel the girls have the issue a lot of newer artists today have: they make "good" (rarely "great") music that adequately feeds their existing audience in a very contained capsule kinda way. But it doesn't feel like there is any kind of concrete strategy to expand beyond that. And because of that, even when creative concepts like what they have with this album pops up (there is so much they could do with this album title), it's never fully realised/built on because there is no map of where the group is going. Take Destiny's Child for example. IMO, FLO are doing the equivalent of releasing endless With Me's and living in the sound of non-singles on their first album, rather than even trying to sonically up the ante with Writings on the Wall or making a bold play in the Pop space on Survivor. In short, it just doesn't feel like there is a crazy incline here. But fans have their blinders on, and because the music does work satisfactorily for folk who like their overall sound, I don't think the fact that there is nothing propelling them forward here is something fans are even aware of. They have so much potential, so I hope something sticks or randomly catches on. But, as for the album itself, I am not moved.

Hmm. Iono. I literally love the ladies and will them the best. But I'm not sure this is what they need atm. I feel that with their debut, they prioritized making a solid R&B album. Not stacked with singles per se, but a "good", "cohesive" listen. While I appreciated the effort, it didn't play like the collection of songs required for the type of success they need to sustain. I feel the exact same way about this album. And would go a step further to say it has even less commercial potential from the first outside of Leak It and a handful of others. IMO, they continue to exist in a decent yet equally awkward space. They have a solid base globally, so can continue to tour and do the festival circuit at a respectable level. But I don't think they have a sizeable enough audience in any of the key geos that will make them boom (US and, ironically the UK). And the music on this album does **NOT** sound like it will propel them out of this predicament. In transparency, maybe I'm conflating my desire for them to be commercially successful with frustrations that they aren't churning out music that will help that cause. But I still think the point holds. Even for what it wants to be (a harmony-rich, through and through R&B record), I feel it's been done...better..by them. They have songs in their wider arsenal that are individually better than most of what's on here. If they can keep doing their thing funded by the label and possibly turning a profit by way of touring, have at it. But iono, this album and so so buzz around the era is giving eventually independent, EPs over albums, and "solo projects" semi-soon. Would love to be proven wrong.

One of thee most basic attempts at a Pop girl the UK has ever produced in recent memory. Before her stans start jabbing, I actually think - based on interviews - she is super sweet as a person. But as an "artist," it's all rather mediocre nothingness. Even at her most "popular", it was nothing more than a generic hook singer that would and could have been replaced by anyone. Let Them Know, which is probably the worst thing to have happened to her "career", was the ultimate truthteller: There was a vacancy behind her eyes that has always been there (and still is) but really was apparent in that video. She has stressed that she was forced into that sound, and I appreciate artists can grow, but literally everything I've generally seen of her has been extremely basic and flat-out unbelievable, including her recent attempt at an R&B rebrand. And while the nepo thing is a bit of a cheap/easy angle to hit her with, one has to wonder what the collective thinking was behind launching her as an artist beyond capitalizing on her prettiness and mom and dad's industry notability. Like, there is no way she/they/label/management honestly thought: "you know what the industry is really missing...a Mabel!" Girl... For her sake, I wish the UK market was a bit more endorsement/brand-centric, like the US. Because she strikes as the sort of "celeb" that could and should have ridden the wave of her temporary music success and leveraged it towards starting a popping...something. Nail business? Lash business? Fashion line? IMO, there is nothing wrong with cashing in on pretty/nepo privilege and surface fame in that regard. But I really don't think there's any great crisis attached to her music career specifically being where it is, because it was not a serious/believable venture to begin with IMO.