4 minutes ago, Kukai said:

No it's my opinion. Tell me which Madonna albums stack up to the ones I mentioned? A lot of the ones I listened to sounded dated and corny. 

Erotica by itself is more innovative, thought-provoking, risk-tasking, and controversial than everything Beyoncé has done combined multiplied by six and then put to the third power

"A lot of the [Madonna albums] I listened to sound dated" oh my days...albums that came out at two decades ago or more don't sound as modern as ones that come out last year? Shocker 

2 minutes ago, Kukai said:

I did listen to it and it was mid

 

If that is mid, then what the hell is Cowboy Carter then?

4 minutes ago, dinorhino said:

The same kind of applies for single sales as well, and double platinum is a fairly low bar even modern standards also.

This isn't really a dig at Beyoncé because she makes different type of music but from a sales perspective of her music career she's not comparable to Madonna. Taylor Swift is the only one that can be compared to her in that regard. From a touring and business~brand perspective she's at least matched Madonna if not bested her so there's a trade off. The money isn't in music anymore anyways so that's better for her

Taylor is probably going to be the biggest artist of this generation so sure we could argue she's also surpassed Madonna. But is her discography up there? IDK. 
 

For me it seems like ATRL is in another world because if you were to ask younger gays or just younger people today the reverence people have for Beyonce and her music is far greater than what they have for Madonna (in spite of her long career).

2 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

If that is mid, then what the hell is Cowboy Carter then?

One of her best albums. A masterpiece! 

42 minutes ago, Badgalbriel said:

Beyonce lacks the relevance and dominance that Madonna had. Beyoncé the name is more known than her music. 25 into her career Madonna was dominating the music world. Beyoncé is struggling to reach multi platinum with her records. 

And the person in your Avi's music is more famous than her name? Too funny

Can't we all just let these queens who clearly love and respect each other exist in tandem

 

 

she remixed vogue for Christ's sake 

Yikes.

37 minutes ago, Kukai said:

This sounds like a cry from the echo chambers of ageing gays pushing 40. If you were to ask anyone from my generation (gen z) or even younger millennials on the street who is more legendary, they would pick Beyonce over Madonna. It's a shame but Madonna's last respectable album was Confession or maybe American Life since old gays overrate that dance album and that was 20 years ago now. 

This sounds like a cry from the echo chambers of a young gay scared to age and think life ends at 30. If you were to ask anyone from my generation (gen y) or even older gen x'ers on the street who is more legendary, they would pick Madonna over Beyonce. It's a shame but Beyonce's last respectable album was I Am... Sasha Fierce or maybe 4 since young gays overrate that self titled album and that was 10 years ago now.

Your arguments so far have been "I don't like Madonna's music" and "young gays in my circle respect Beyonce more". Personal opinion and anecdotal evidence. Just say you prefer Beyonce to Madonna and be done with it. They are two different artists with very different trajectories. Madonna basically set the template of what a female popstar is and she had untouchable longevity and commercial power deep into her career. Beyonce has amassed an amazing body of work in the second part of her career and has a lot of respect from the industry. Two amazing, different artists. I don't get the need to compare them other than to validate your own feelings which, grow up.

Madonna is a legend. Madonna clearly had a better shot at being regarded as one of the greats due to her being… you know what. Beyoncé has had to work twice as hard to reach the status she has or to even be compared to such icons. Madonna is of course very talented but Beyoncé and Madonna have very few similarities. 

 

Beyonce started her career in one of the best selling girl groups, Madonna didn't. Beyoncé doesn't need to be controversial, she can sing. Beyoncé is named one of the top 10 best singers of all time, I couldn't find our Madge on the list. Madonna is a great entertainer but Beyoncé is also recognised as one of the best too - Beyoncé is Beyoncé and Madonna is Madonna.

 

They are both Living Legends and with the current state of music. I am just glad we still have both. 

3 minutes ago, Beyoncei said:

Madonna is a legend. Madonna clearly had a better shot at being regarded as one of the greats due to her being… you know what. Beyoncé has had to work twice as hard to reach the status she has or to even be compared to such icons. Madonna is of course very talented but Beyoncé and Madonna have very few similarities. 

 

Beyonce started her career in one of the best selling girl groups, Madonna didn't. Beyoncé doesn't need to be controversial, she can sing. Beyoncé is named one of the top 10 best singers of all time, I couldn't find our Madge on the list. Madonna is a great entertainer but Beyoncé is also recognised as one of the best too - Beyoncé is Beyoncé and Madonna is Madonna.

 

They are both Living Legends and with the current state of music. I am just glad we still have both. 

Then why does she pose half naked for Ren album?

1 hour ago, Kukai said:

Beyonce has arguably created more experimental and thought-provoking albums than Madonna ever created or could ever create with records such as Cowboy Carter, Renaissance and Lemonade. 

24 minutes ago, Kukai said:

I did listen to it and it was mid. I liked some songs on it. But it was hella overrated from what people were telling me. I think Bedtime stories was okay and Erotica was fun as well but a lot of her work just sounds so dated idk. I haven't listened to any of her newer stuff but Beyoncé's last few albums are by far superior to anything I've heard from Madonna. Period. 

Therefore, your personal opinion makes the whole topic null and void, because IN YOUR MIND (and yours ONLY), you answered your own question.

 

Also, Madonna was a trandsetter, she shooked the boundaries and set up new horizons to women about expressing themselves in the music industry in a VERY sexist and misogynitic society. She was very important (if not pioneer) in that regard. Beyoncé NEVER did that !

The whole voguing thing was very popular dance in the ballrooms but SHE made it popular on a commercial scale. Beyoncé NEVER did that !

Making a "country" album isn't risk-taking in 2024, especially not from a pop-artist (southerner at that). 

 

Beyoncé did NOTHING that shook the industry politically, musically like Madonna did. 

 

Madonna was censored and "blackballed" for singing about sex and taking a stand against Iraq war in 2003. (The Dixie Chicks who were very popular country singers went off against Bush's politics and NEVER recovered from that) Beyoncé NEVER did that !

 

Beyoncé ALWAYS played it safe ! Not a diss because she doesn't have to SHOCK (for the sake of it) to sell, but Madonna is WAY BIGGER than selling albums/tours, etc. She had an actual POINT OF VIEW in her artistry despite being ironically VERY limited talent-wise.

Oh we really just saying anything now huh

32 minutes ago, Kukai said:

Taylor is probably going to be the biggest artist of this generation so sure we could argue she's also surpassed Madonna. But is her discography up there? IDK. 
 

For me it seems like ATRL is in another world because if you were to ask younger gays or just younger people today the reverence people have for Beyonce and her music is far greater than what they have for Madonna (in spite of her long career).

Younger people liking younger artists....shocker

And even irrespective of that Madonna has done more for the queer community at least in the US than Beyoncé or really any other artist, particularly during a time where it put her career at risk so those gays are revelling in her legacy whether they know it or not. That's called impact. Beyoncé did it during a time where supporting queer people was trendy and was at a (relative) all-time low risk 

38 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

Can't we all just let these queens who clearly love and respect each other exist in tandem

 

 

she remixed vogue for Christ's sake 

It's the fact that they're literally related is the funny part. A music-making family

Obviously an album from. 1997 will sound dated in 2024  

1 hour ago, Kukai said:

If you were to ask anyone from my generation (gen z) or even younger millennials on the street who is more legendary, they would pick Beyonce over Madonna

And since when does your generation has the final word about this matter? 

1 hour ago, Badgalbriel said:

Beyonce lacks the relevance and dominance that Madonna had. Beyoncé the name is more known than her music. 25 into her career Madonna was dominating the music world. Beyoncé is struggling to reach multi platinum with her records. 

Yeah. Madge is just in another universe from most MPG's. 

 

Even Madame X went number 1 on the Billboard 36 years after her debut. And she's still able to get a Billboard hit to this day as we've seen with "Popular."

 

That's not even factoring in the musical and societal influence, the global impact/face, the classic albums, the numerous hits, the iconic tours, the movie soundtracks, etc.

 

Beyonce is a legend just like Madonna and deserves praise but she still hasn't reached her highs. No MPG has yet.

Literally what led you to think that, especially after CoCa

Also, the argument that "oh but younger people don't know Madonna" is so tired like... maybe younger people are just uneducated? That doesn't mean anything and that will never erase Madonna's legacy. Gen Z could call Tate McRae the queen of pop and that wouldn't mean anything. At the end of the day Madonna is still the biggest female artist to ever exist, the most revolutionary, the most important, and that's final.

 

And I don't mean to diminish Beyoncé by saying that because I love Beyoncé, and, as I said, I think she's one of the greatest of all time and maybe the most important female artist out there after Madonna.

Nobody has surpassed Madonna.

Also, compared to Rihanna, Taylor, Gaga, and Lana, I don't think Beyonce has as much of a grip on Gen Z as people are making it seem. This was even alluded too with her clothing line being a flop. 

 

Obviously, more Zoomers are going to be fans of Beyonce who's still very active in music than a 65 year old legacy act who peaked years ago. But I don't think Gen Z is as huge on Beyonce's music as people are making it seem, especially Gen Z overseas. 

 

At the very least, most people are familiar with Madonna and recognize a number of her hits. And she's still a global icon. 

 

At 65 years old, that's all you can ask for. If Beyonce didn't have more Gen Z fans than Madge as a younger and more active artist, that'd be a terrible look. Madonna is still the best selling female act of all time though and her influence still runs deep to this day. 

Edited June 1, 20242 yr by Storm653

There's a "Has x artist surpassed Madonna" thread every month on this site, and the answer is always the same: no.

 

The OP just wants attention and a hit thread (on the back of some very poor knowledge of contemporary popular music history).

39 minutes ago, dinorhino said:

It's the fact that they're literally related is the funny part. A music-making family

I've always thought Tina looks a little bit like Madonna honestly but I didn't know they were related omg