lol they are so mad in the Pitchfork thread! 

 

My critique of the era aside, no one can deny that REN is a superior album. I just wish it had both critical and streaming success. 

I can see it from both sides. The album has gotten piss poor attention from Day 1 and the silence has just become a norm with her, so it's tired to keep pushing at it.

 

HOWEVER, it is well within the right of fans to be irritated at the way Beyoncé and PW are handling the era. I don't think it's entitlement. Beyoncé doesn't care to act like projects deserve attention is she isn't being cut a check. Even the idea that she signed with a major streaming service provider for the visuals confirms that to an extent.

 

It's getting clear that she stopped doing traditional rollout because for the last couple years, her visuals have all premiered onbstreaming services. HBO, Disney+ etc.

1 minute ago, Planet Mars said:

I can see it from both sides. The album has gotten piss poor attention from Day 1 and the silence has just become a norm with her, so it's tired to keep pushing at it.

 

HOWEVER, it is well within the right of fans to be irritated at the way Beyoncé and PW are handling the era. I don't think it's entitlement. Beyoncé doesn't care to act like projects deserve attention is she isn't being cut a check. Even the idea that she signed with a major streaming service provider for the visuals confirms that to an extent.

 

It's getting clear that she stopped doing traditional rollout because for the last couple years, her visuals have all premiered onbstreaming services. HBO, Disney+ etc.

BUT....

 

Part of being a smart and successful team/company is knowing when to adapt to the times. CURRENTLY  the audience prefers easy access, not exclusivity. Waiting for the right " check" or streaming company to come along makes no sense for an era that's "about the music". Just release the video to youtube and let the world do it's thing. 

 

It's truly frustrating and baffling. 

17 minutes ago, Planet Mars said:

 

This tweet still rings true, and it was back in August 

B'Day remains her worst rollout.

 

Renaissance had no rollout whatsoever. 

 

 

5 hours ago, BnPac said:

If the music doesn't need visuals, why compile a visual of fans dancing to it? We don't need visuals of that either in that case. 

It's cute and all but videos have never prevented people from enjoying music ever. It has helped artists to acutely give a vision beyond music and a big part of the legacy of black artists is tied to it : Thriller breaking down barriers on MTV, them using to highlight social issues : Nina Simone, MJ, Prince, Janet, even Beyoncé being considered the visual artist of her generation makes such statements uncalled for imo.

FEEL can be both experienced with just music and through visuals. If not does that mean Lemonade wasn't about FEEL?

Let's be cautious with the way we present stuff just to gas up Beyoncé because somehow it actually deters to her own legacy. Saying this about an album makes ST and Lemonade's as well as upcoming album's visuals superfluous. 

 

Compiling videos of fans dancing is not "visuals". It's a compilation, and doing so doesn't suggest the music NEEDS videos at all, it's merely a cute video as you said. 

 

But the video underlines the ethos I think she's trying to make clear...that the music is standing on its own in a way that centres a reaction to the music itself.

 

I also never said a video hinders enjoyment of music. But it does put a very specific thought in one's head about it. Imagine thinking about Thriller and NOT thinking about the video or the choreography. What Renaissance did was allow everyone's imagination and FEELINGS to run wild without the visual guidance of a visual album.

 

I'm not saying this is better or worse, it's just what she seems to be doing here. She is allowed to have multidudes. She should be allowed to at one moment focus on visuals for a certain purpose and then decide not to for another, and both may achieve the same goal (FEELINGS) but accomplish it in different ways and for different meanings. Lemonade used visuals to further explain and expand upon elements that were not in the songs (such as the spoken words segments or anger as release in Hold Up). She could have not released visuals, but then maybe she'd have included interludes, who knows? Renaissance's lack of visuals brings us back to a pre-MTV era, an era she very much references on the album, and the album works without a visual reference for you to get her total meaning and point of view. That's simply it. And she said she intended the music to make people have fun. The BREAK MY SOUL compilation video shows that it did just that. I'm sure it'd do the same with a video too, but an artist choosing one way to do things doesn't mean it's the only way. It means they had a certain intention they wanted to achieve...which...seems to be having a blank canvas for the music and not guiding people through aesthetic, choreography, or how they feel about a visual vs. the music.

 

And how is me saying she has not released visuals so people can focus on the music alone a deterrent to her legacy? ST and Lemonade's visual albums served their purpose. They're not superfluous because someone said Renaissance not having visuals for at least 4/5 months was so that people can focus only on the music. They did what they needed to do, and brilliantly too.

 

 

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by swissman

1 minute ago, carameldelight said:

BUT....

 

Part of being a smart and successful team/company is knowing when to adapt to the times. CURRENTLY  the audience prefers easy access, not exclusivity. Waiting for the right " check" or streaming company to come along makes no sense for an era that's "about the music". Just release the video to youtube and let the world do it's thing. 

 

It's truly frustrating and baffling. 

This has me thinking that she threw a lot of money at these visuals. She probably tried to top herself after black is king and a good deal was needed to atleast make it worth it.

Actually at least 13 songs from Rennie (or should we call her Renie ?) could be great singles. 

 

Not Church Girl though, Bey. 

Back in the early 2000's  artists would make compilation fan videos towards an end of an era. It saved money and it was easier than filming a video. I always found it corny lol.. Especially when it was for a song I liked. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Bicassie said:

This has me thinking that she threw a lot of money at these visuals. She probably tried to top herself after black is king and a good deal was needed to atleast make it worth it.

IDK you could be right. Even if that was the case it's the lack of communication and leaving the fans with no clue if something will ever come that's the problem.

12 hours ago, Ari29 said:

I didn’t say it was her fault, what I said was it helps to paint the perception of her being deified.
 

Stan goggles have a lot to do with it imo. I was in the thread of The Lion King premiere and I remember the comments from members of this base watching that red carpet live stream and her being the only one from the film to not appear but just take pictures on the red carpet. They were completely turned off and dragged her but that lasted maybe a day. 
 

Regarding this part of your post: 

but saying "she doesn't do much so I don't think about her/listen to her music" is far different than "she doesn't do much so I think she thinks she's better than everyone else".

 

 

Her not being in any kind of content like this and completely not engaging with the rest of the cast helps to push that narrative. Her being the only cast member to not promote it at all but be the topic of most all the casts interviews helps that narrative. 
 

I’m specifically using The Lion King as an example because it’s not Beyonce exclusive like an album and the audience was mostly GP or built in TLK fans…and the topic of her not promoting was discussed in and outside of this base. 

I get "why" people come to these conclusions. I just don't think it's fair. If Beyoncé doesn't want to do promo for her own album, do you really think she wants to do it for a Disney film? There are a million notoriously private actors/actresses ... they may have a larger-than-life persona but no one vilifies them for it the way they do Beyoncé. Greta Garbo is a very notable one. Her reclusiveness is like an asset to her legacy, something people joke about but also say without an ounce of judgement. But apparently Beyoncé needs to be ever open to the public or she's an arrogant goddess. Meanwhile she's never been nothing but kind, gracious, and loving to the GP. Her commencement speech is a great exmaple of her reaching out and doing something not in her job description that actually feels correct, not a promo or a "I'm so real" interview.

 

Let's be honest, the movie wasn't good...at all, and as a Beyoncé fan the best part of the film's existence was The Gift. She did what she needed to do to access her fans and get them involved in the movie beyond just "go hear my voice in the film!" Sure, she didn't promote it. But every Beyoncé fan knew about it and its legacy for the film will last far longer than if she had filmed a behind-the-scenes video with the cast.

 

2 minutes ago, carameldelight said:

IDK you could be right. Even if that was the case it's the lack of communication and leaving the fans with no clue if something will ever come that's the problem.

There was never ever any communication with bey and the fandom if it ever came to her releases since 4 lbr

The premature teaser was essentially the part that messed her up tbh 

26 minutes ago, swissman said:

Compiling videos of fans dancing is not "visuals". It's a compilation,

A compilation is not a visual? 

A visual by definition is a display, something related to seeing or sight. Once again if one wants to let the music speak for itself, there is no reason to show a visual of fans enjoying it or feeling it... 

26 minutes ago, swissman said:

Imagine thinking about Thriller and NOT thinking about the video or the choreography

I very much can. I know all the little noises (his shoes, the wolves, the door slam when he sings about a door slamming) the nuances of the song, how the 20 first seconds crescendo of cinematic worrying sound leads to that "tan tan" that makes the song really start. The fantastic instrumental production in particular the saxophone (Idk how it's called in English, horn maybe?) . How long the song is. How it feats in the album. But I also know the video. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. 

26 minutes ago, swissman said:

she has not released visuals so people can focus on the music alone

It implies that videos make it impossible to focus on music. And that's a very narrow opinion. Music lovers don't love a song or stop "focusing on music alone" because they've seen a video. 

Ego has an awful video that I couldn't even finish for how awful it is, same for Sweet Dreams and I can very much focus on the song alone. 

 

Pretending in any way that videos have to be kept out of the picture, even for a moment - like Yvette said - in order for music to be correctly experienced is detrimental to an artist that is known as the visual artist of her generation. And the artists before her who made videos such a big chanel of artistic expression. But that's just my opinion. 

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by BnPac

20 minutes ago, swissman said:

I get "why" people come to these conclusions. I just don't think it's fair. If Beyoncé doesn't want to do promo for her own album, do you really think she wants to do it for a Disney film? There are a million notoriously private actors/actresses ... they may have a larger-than-life persona but no one vilifies them for it the way they do Beyoncé. Greta Garbo is a very notable one. Her reclusiveness is like an asset to her legacy, something people joke about but also say without an ounce of judgement. But apparently Beyoncé needs to be ever open to the public or she's an arrogant goddess. Meanwhile she's never been nothing but kind, gracious, and loving to the GP. Her commencement speech is a great exmaple of her reaching out and doing something not in her job description that actually feels correct, not a promo or a "I'm so real" interview.

 

Let's be honest, the movie wasn't good...at all, and as a Beyoncé fan the best part of the film's existence was The Gift. She did what she needed to do to access her fans and get them involved in the movie beyond just "go hear my voice in the film!" Sure, she didn't promote it. But every Beyoncé fan knew about it and its legacy for the film will last far longer than if she had filmed a behind-the-scenes video with the cast.

 

No one does this for the male artists either who don't really do interviews & all this extra stuff like The Weeknd, Drake, Kendrick Lamar either. 

Renaissance is really that ***** ugghhhh 

The production of AHAP simply cannot be ****** with 

19 minutes ago, Bicassie said:

The premature teaser was essentially the part that messed her up tbh 

Did it or would we not just be bemoaning the lack of ANY kind of visual in general? 

 

I'd say it was actually confirmation that visuals were coming in the press release, which oddly was rolled out a day BEFORE the album dropped that was the true tell-tale sign to me. 

 

Conjecture perhaps, but IMO there was a need to "get in front of" the visual drama and pre-emptively let us know nothing would be dropping on July 31st.

 

Had they not done that and kept us guessing, I feel it would have maximized the "OMG'ness" of the eventual reveal. It would have better sold the spiel Bey is giving us of "enjoy the music" / "create a soundscape in your mind". Of course, none of this is in anyway "game-changing" but it would have been more believable that that is what she was peddling than the vibe we're getting now (that something went wrong behind the scenes).  

 

At the moment, we're stuck in this limbo of knowing they're coming but having no clue when. It's equal parts calming and annoying at the same time. 

28 minutes ago, Bicassie said:

The premature teaser was essentially the part that messed her up tbh 

Yep. This is the issue.

2 hours ago, Armani? said:

It isnt even Platinum on RIAA

 

5 minutes ago, king_queen said:

The production of AHAP simply cannot be ****** with 

You know it!!!! 

What an exceptional song. 

 

Now that Swissman brought Thriller up, I'm thinking AHAP deserves such a video. Grand, no sexiness, a story, a bit of fun. 

32 minutes ago, Bicassie said:

 

There was never ever any communication with bey and the fandom if it ever came to her releases since 4 lbr

They have never constantly updated however they would provide dates. For example we knew when to expect Lemonade visuals and coachella documentarty, etc.  Fans had something to look forward to and not just stay in limbo. 

 

Actually this is just like formation world tour. Instead of telling fans there was no dvd coming, they just made shirts mocking them. 

Yeah, the weird timing of the teaser was strange. 

 

 

I knew Ren would be in p4k top 5 but didn't think they'd actually give her #1 

Edited December 6, 20223 yr by sunbathinganimal

20 minutes ago, BnPac said:

A compilation is not a visual? 

A visual by definition is a display, something related to seeing or sight. Once again if one wants to let the music speak for itself, there is no reason to show a visual of fans enjoying it or feeling it...

A compilation is a visual, yes. But now we're getting into semantics.

 

What is meant when we say "visuals" are "music videos", and ones assumed to feature/star Beyoncé. If not, then okay we got the official BREAK MY SOUL visual. Now will we stop complaining about "where are the visuals?" No, because it's a compilation video, not a "visual".

 

20 minutes ago, BnPac said:

It implies that videos make it impossible to focus on music. And that's a very narrow opinion. Music lovers don't love a song or stop "focusing on music alone" because they've seen a video. 

Ego has an awful video that I couldn't even finish for how awful it is, same for Sweet Dreams and I can very much focus on the song alone. 

 

Pretending in any way that videos have to be kept out of the picture, even for a moment - like Yvette said - in order for music to be correctly experienced is detrimental to an artist that is known as the visual artist of her generation. And the artists before her who made videos such a big chanel of artistic expression. But that's just my opinion. 

Can you ever guarantee someone will focus on music alone unless you release just the music alone though? That's my point.

 

If she is withholding visuals there must be a reason and my theory is so that people focus JUST on the music. I've never said that people couldn't possibly focus on it with a visual. I'm saying that visuals add something to it that isn't music alone.

 

Put another way, if you baked a beautiful cake and wanted people to just focus on it and nothing else, to best achieve this would you: A) put it on a table filled with many other desserts or B) put it on a table alone?

 

 

 

 

Beyoncé can release a video for every song to put the focus on the music (ie. democratization of tracks..."the best" songs aren't just the ones getting videos, they are have one because they all deserve it) AND Beyoncé can release NO video for any song not even singles and this can achieve a similar democratization and emphasis on the album as a whole. She doesn't have to pick one or the other, and both can be used in different ways to achieve the goal she's aiming for in any moment, relative to the pop climate, her own career, or however she feels.

 

1 minute ago, sunbathinganimal said:

I knew Ren would be in p4k top 5 but didn't think they'd actually give her #1 

Same.

 

I really think this may be her AOTY

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lose My Breath said:

Same.

 

I really think this may be her AOTY

 

 

would be happy with either Bey or Benito but it just feels like her year