2 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

 

I think it's an oversimplification to say SKZ aren't the reason "TOP" did well or that they only have one non-OST success in Japan.

 

Yes, "TOP" got a boost from being an anime OST, but that alone doesn't explain why the song charted for over 214 weeks on Oricon. Most anime OSTs especially by foreign acts don't have that kind of longevity, they peak and disappear. The fact that "TOP" stayed on the chart for nearly 3 years says a lot about SKZ's growing fanbase and presence in Japan.

 

Also, it's not like "TOP" is their only success there. They've had several other solid-performing songs, like "Scars," "CASE 143" etc. Their Japanese albums have also done really well on both Oricon and Billboard Japan. They may not have had a long string of singles charting like old-school J-pop-focused idol groups such as BoA or TVXQ etc., but their album sales, concert attendance, RIAJ certifications and longevity speak for themselves. They're one of the most successful K-pop groups in Japan right now.

 

They are by far the most popular and consumed 4th gen group in Japan as well for example.

 

I don't doubt their status within 4th gen, hits are just normally how we measure the success of pop stars and to not have them speaks to them not being popular for the same reasons that pop acts normally are. SKZ is kinda the final boss of whale fan BGs. 

 

I think it's self evident now that when I say I'm from a different era of kpop that was focused on completely different things, I'm not just making that up. I know in the past it's come off as something personally against you or against that group but now that my original fav is back the proof is right there. His priorities are different, his stats are different, his celebrity status is different, his concert crowds behave differently, he charts completely differently and with album sales that aren't totally front loaded, and despite being objectively higher selling than other idols AND better charting in his main markets, he moves in silence without media play and Spotify farms. These aren't industry trends that SKZ started and I don't doubt that they have a strong fan base, they just are the current representatives of a version of kpop that I feel is going in the wrong direction. It's worrisome for the whole entire industry that other than NJZ who are in a hopefully temporary retirement era, nobody who debuted after Black Pink has a real global smash hit. 2nd gen artists were topping iTunes US back when that was the equivalent to Spotify as the #1 music platform, and they did it without organized purchasing campaigns. kpop used to do all these different things like the visuals and the merch and the live shows to supplement the music back then too, but over time these things have become more important to these corporations than the music itself, and they've become more central to being a kpop fan than just appreciating songs. GD is uglee, not a good singer, doesn't do well with choreo anymore, but he still can write a genuine smash hit effortlessly. Hits are what attracted us all to kpop in the first place. My 2nd gen fav who everybody in this thread including you pretended was a nobody up until recently, who comes from before the Spotify bots meta has a song with more streams than SKZ does. That's not just a shady gotcha, it actually says a lot about the state of kpop that a group making millions more than BB ever did is failing compared to them in actual music consumption. 

 

I genuinely don't have anything personally against them or their fans the way I do certain other groups. SKZ has no hits is my genuine opinion. The modern idol groups have done a great job of sustaining the hallyu wave, but theyre failing to recreate the types of success that started it.

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

 

Made me tear up. Justice for ITZY man.

 

Kings 

3 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

 

Uhm, now is the perfect time to inform you that SKZ literally has the longest charting single by a foreign act in Oricon history 

 

Get into this classic

That's because Oricon changed their charting system in 2018. It's still an achievement for the past 7 years, but "in history" is a big stretch.

 

What surprises me is how little "TOP" sold in Japan overall. I guess the physical sales results of its popularity are seen more in their follow-up releases, which were a huge upward trajectory.

3 hours ago, Ubermensch said:

even the stays in the youtube comments are admitting that skz arent the reason this popped off though. I think from our previous arguments there's like a single non-ost that did well for them there vs actually popular idol groups that got hit after hit at their peak 

 

you stan the first "kpop leader" with no hits and i stan the first "kpop leader" that can't play stadiums outside of Japan. It's no tea kpop is just in the trenches 

I'd argue that this is the closest we have to a boy group hit this gen (aside from RIIZE). The single didn't have huge sales but the streams were massive, allowing it to stay on the charts consistently.

 

Likewise, I think Aespa could easily do stadiums. People were trying to buy tickets to their sold out United Center show at the venue in Chicago when I went. I knew other people who were going to attend but couldn't get tickets. The real question is whether or not SM will ever let them book a stadium.

 

Part of the issue is that stadiums don't like K-pop acts in the U.S. K-pop acts sell merch but not food and drinks, so they aren't a good fit for most venues. Venues would rather have acts like Morgan Wallen and Luke Combs who sell a TON of beer.

2 hours ago, Pluto6 said:

 

I think it's an oversimplification to say SKZ aren't the reason "TOP" did well or that they only have one non-OST success in Japan.

 

Yes, "TOP" got a boost from being an anime OST, but that alone doesn't explain why the song charted for over 214 weeks on Oricon. Most anime OSTs especially by foreign acts don't have that kind of longevity, they peak and disappear. The fact that "TOP" stayed on the chart for nearly 3 years says a lot about SKZ's growing fanbase and presence in Japan.

 

Also, it's not like "TOP" is their only success there. They've had several other solid-performing songs, like "Scars," "CASE 143" etc. Their Japanese albums have also done really well on both Oricon and Billboard Japan. They may not have had a long string of singles charting like old-school J-pop-focused idol groups such as BoA or TVXQ etc., but their album sales, concert attendance, RIAJ certifications and longevity speak for themselves. They're one of the most successful K-pop groups in Japan right now.

 

They are by far the most popular and consumed 4th gen group in Japan as well for example.

 

It's important to note that most of the popular 4th gen groups in Japan (IVE, Aespa & NJ) just don't release very often there. NewJeans don't even have a Japanese release yet (their Japanese song was released through Korea for WW distribution).

9 minutes ago, Eternium said:

I'd argue that this is the closest we have to a boy group hit this gen (aside from RIIZE). The single didn't have huge sales but the streams were massive, allowing it to stay on the charts consistently.

I don't disagree, the bar is just underground compared to when GD was arguably the #1 male pop act on earth. 4th gen groups who are supposed to be in their prime rn can't even claim to be the top kpop act in Korea. Something went wrong.

 

9 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Likewise, I think Aespa could easily do stadiums.

They aren't touring to capacity but if even black pink was giving away free tickets on the street to their MetLife show, I sincerely doubt aespa would fare better. They need to be booking bigger arenas and for several dates, or attempt smaller stadiums like that 30k cap one in LA that other kpop groups already have played.

 

The only market I think they 100% need to be in stadiums yesterday is Korea. They've had some issues selling out but I think that's down to poor promotion and oversaturation. There's no reason for those girls to have a lifetime residency at kspo dome instead of just doing a couple nights at gocheok dome or a single night at a larger venue once a year. More profit, more impressive stats, and less overworking for the girls.

9 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Part of the issue is that stadiums don't like K-pop acts in the U.S. K-pop acts sell merch but not food and drinks, so they aren't a good fit for most venues. Venues would rather have acts like Morgan Wallen and Luke Combs who sell a TON of beer.

Anecdotal because of the weird mix of groups I stan but this hasn't been true at all in my experience. The lines at aespa for some pizza and cocktails were almost my 13th reason. 

Now that BTS army are adults they'll probably be turning up at that reunion tour too.

 

 

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

*****

 

They devoured 

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Bewitched

This is on par with Armageddon and the ******* serve of the year so far  

 

 

These are great, too. A huge step up from the absolute miss that was Whiplash's physical albums.

 

 

they're taking it 

 

 

2 hours ago, Cheers said:

I pray to Jaysus Christ every night

 

7 hours ago, Cheers said:

ENGODPEN wouldn't look at me at Coachella

 

11 minutes ago, youresotoxic said:

 

they're taking it 

 

 

OMG 

 

I was gonna say something about Karina giving BODY but Kingking's ripped shirt is HOT and risque and I love it. NO BRAS 2025. 

13 minutes ago, elevate said:

 

 

Diva you know I'm a lil crazy.

1 hour ago, Ubermensch said:

I don't doubt their status within 4th gen, hits are just normally how we measure the success of pop stars and to not have them speaks to them not being popular for the same reasons that pop acts normally are. SKZ is kinda the final boss of whale fan BGs. 

 

I think it's self evident now that when I say I'm from a different era of kpop that was focused on completely different things, I'm not just making that up. I know in the past it's come off as something personally against you or against that group but now that my original fav is back the proof is right there. His priorities are different, his stats are different, his celebrity status is different, his concert crowds behave differently, he charts completely differently and with album sales that aren't totally front loaded, and despite being objectively higher selling than other idols AND better charting in his main markets, he moves in silence without media play and Spotify farms. These aren't industry trends that SKZ started and I don't doubt that they have a strong fan base, they just are the current representatives of a version of kpop that I feel is going in the wrong direction. It's worrisome for the whole entire industry that other than NJZ who are in a hopefully temporary retirement era, nobody who debuted after Black Pink has a real global smash hit. 2nd gen artists were topping iTunes US back when that was the equivalent to Spotify as the #1 music platform, and they did it without organized purchasing campaigns. kpop used to do all these different things like the visuals and the merch and the live shows to supplement the music back then too, but over time these things have become more important to these corporations than the music itself, and they've become more central to being a kpop fan than just appreciating songs. GD is uglee, not a good singer, doesn't do well with choreo anymore, but he still can write a genuine smash hit effortlessly. Hits are what attracted us all to kpop in the first place. My 2nd gen fav who everybody in this thread including you pretended was a nobody up until recently, who comes from before the Spotify bots meta has a song with more streams than SKZ does. That's not just a shady gotcha, it actually says a lot about the state of kpop that a group making millions more than BB ever did is failing compared to them in actual music consumption. 

 

I genuinely don't have anything personally against them or their fans the way I do certain other groups. SKZ has no hits is my genuine opinion. The modern idol groups have done a great job of sustaining the hallyu wave, but theyre failing to recreate the types of success that started it.

SKZ sell out massive tours across the globe. Their physical sales and streams are among the highest of any current K-pop group. They chart consistently on Billboard, Oricon, Japan Hot 100, and global Spotify, without a major English-language hit. Their popularity goes beyond "whales", their reach is wide, which is how they're headlining festivals, selling out stadiums worldwide, selling millions of albums, getting millions of streams and followers etc.

 

And on the "hits brought us to K-pop" point that you made, that might've been your experience, which is totally fair. Though it also needs to be pointed out that the Kpop songs you claim to be hits for you, are not really hits outside of Korea or Japan, and only a very few Kpop songs are actually global hits. What I'm trying to say is that almost every Kpop act are on the same boat, once they step outside of Korea, which is not having recognizable global hit songs known by the GP. We have outliers like BTS and BP, but not even their releases are always guaranteed to become global hits. 

 

 

SKZ are not just a niche act, but a huge niche act basically. They are one of the most known and recognized Kpop acts outside of Korea right now, whether it be Europe, North America, Latin America. But is their success niche? Yes, just like almost every Kpop act, since they aren't known by the average person worldwide, like Western singers are. But their niche success is currently much larger than that of most other K-pop acts, which is reflected on their tours and overall numbers for example. 

 

Anyways, here's an interview from yesterday by Rolling Stone, where SKZ members themselves mention how their music isn't really made for specific charts: 

 

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Pluto6

53 minutes ago, youresotoxic said:

 

they're taking it 

 

 

Oh wow. They serve so easily.

1 hour ago, Pluto6 said:

SKZ sell out massive tours across the globe. Their physical sales and streams are among the highest of any current K-pop group. They chart consistently on Billboard, Oricon, Japan Hot 100, and global Spotify, without a major English-language hit. Their popularity goes beyond "whales", their reach is wide, which is how they're headlining festivals, selling out stadiums worldwide, selling millions of albums, getting millions of streams and followers etc.

 

And on the "hits brought us to K-pop" point that you made, that might've been your experience, which is totally fair. Though it also needs to be pointed out that the Kpop songs you claim to be hits for you, are not really hits outside of Korea or Japan, and only a very few Kpop songs are actually global hits. What I'm trying to say is that almost every Kpop act are on the same boat, once they step outside of Korea, which is not having recognizable global hit songs known by the GP. We have outliers like BTS and BP, but not even their releases are always guaranteed to become global hits. 

 

 

SKZ are not just a niche act, but a huge niche act basically. They are one of the most known and recognized Kpop acts outside of Korea right now, whether it be Europe, North America, Latin America. But is their success niche? Yes, just like almost every Kpop act, since they aren't known by the average person worldwide, like Western singers are. But their niche success is currently much larger than that of most other K-pop acts, which is reflected on their tours and overall numbers for example. 

 

Anyways, here's an interview from yesterday by Rolling Stone, where SKZ members themselves mention how their music isn't really made for specific charts: 

 

None of this disproves what I said though. We just have different opinions on what matters most. I'm not even saying that yours is worse than mine, I just made a joke about how they're hitless. 

 

The songs I claim to be hits were actually charting on the relevant music consumption charts for their era in the west, which basically no kpop group can do today except for BP and BTS soloists. Locals have at least heard D4 and Gee in passing sometime online or irl. I can only recognize 4th and 5th gen kpop songs because I'm deeply invested in kpop, the only exceptions to that would be hybe gg tracks that were excessively payola'd on tiktok and cupid. 

 

SKZ makes music that panders to their fans, which is whale fan group behavior. BTS has done this at points too. My favs SNSD's last comeback was a moderate hit in Korea but it was a fanservice track, etc. That's not some magic silver bullet shield against the fair assessment that their music isn't made for people who aren't Stays. Instead of reaching for a broader audience, they just try to grow their own fanbase. The reason my favs' successors exist at all, is because that first generation of global kpop was laser focused on expansion and mass appeal through catchy and addictive pop hits.

 

I also make jabs at my own favs aespa for never having their mics on, another major issue for the industry in 2025. kpop is in the trenches and the top groups deserve the heat for that imo. Nothing SKZ has ever done has interested me enough to know much about them, but I know in my favs' aespa's case, their issues are the result of SM mismanaging them, and not the fault of the girls themselves who have proven to be extremely talented. It's not a personal attack on the members when I say things like that. SKZ is literally hitless and hits were formerly the driving force of kpop and still are the driving force of the rest of pop music. I don't think that's an unfair statement.

 

Taylor is notoriously fan-driven for a western artist and not even she has spotify stats like SKZ. I'm not accusing them of using bots any more or less than the rest of the industry when I say that, I'm saying the people streaming are obsessed fans who will stream anything they put out. They have 0 reach outside of that base. You can't say the same for other top kpop groups when they have tracks with 10x the streams of their average tt.

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

 

 

Gentle reminder hot boy summer is now

2 hours ago, Cheers said:

 

Made me tear up. Justice for ITZY man.

Why can't they just get western writers and call it a day

4 hours ago, Cheers said:

 

 

OMG??? ENGODPEN TEASES NEW COMEBACK!!! Sound the alarms! @Ryan

 

Already?!

https://m.entertain.naver.com/home/article/311/0001878162

king of kpop launching a canned cocktail and making a massive donation to fight alcoholism on the same night. We should all aspire to be as chaotic but well-meaning. I love when celebrities consider the consequences of their actions instead of waiting to be called out. 

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

2 hours ago, youresotoxic said:

 

they're taking it 

 

 

This is really Girlicious like. 

If we don't talk about them ugly shoes

1 hour ago, £than said:

 

Gentle reminder hot boy summer is now

Nowhere near enough nudity; doubt it'll even hit the lpsg thread. Best of luck to them. 

14 hours ago, Odette Violet said:

girl... I was expecting another round of Top Model photoshoot but we got quirky aespa 

 

 

nevermind. It's Shakira, Xtina, Rihanna and Britney b**** 

 

 

3 hours ago, youresotoxic said:

 

they're taking it 

 

 

Used to be gay but now I'm just hetero 

like I just don't simply understand how the industry are keeping them toddlers when you can have grown women smashing like aespa. gays and girls are the most loyal fanbase, your career is set if you have them on chokehold  

Edited June 13, 20251 yr by Odette Violet