9 minutes ago, Dreajae said:

Her catalog suffered and still is. Yes she is still top 10 for female artists. But she received more streams a few years ago when Spotify has less users and before the Gift and EIL. Her older albums also outstream Lemonade. The numbers are there. She knew what it was when she released EIL on Tidal and had to rush that mess over to Spotify cause the numbers were abysmal. 

 

For years there was a banner saying Lemonade wasn't available to stream. From there, alot of people simply assumed all her music was on Tidal. To this day I see so many comments on Tik Tok where they're asking about a song from the Gift, Lemonade and EIL that they've never heard of. 

Yep, lack of new music for years on end will affect you heavily. She used to be one of the top dogs of Spotify before the Lemonade era and then they tumbled when nothing was added on there. EIL is counted under The Carters so that just leaves Homecoming (nobody is actively streaming live albums daily) and The Gift, an afrobeat soundtrack that the GP didn't click with/doesn't know about. It will just take time for her to get her audience back on there.

 

I think that while T*ylor has indeend used some of Beyoncé's moves (or, at least been able to follow a path that Beyoncé showed can still get success), the difference is that it didn't necessarily change the overall perception of T*ylor. She is neither more or less repsected, more or less succesful, her brand and what's renowned for has largely stayed the same. Those who appreciated her for her songwriting abilities before don't necessarily respect her more after she's become a bit more elusive and used bold, concise strategies like suprise releases. Her success too, is consistent and doesn't necessarily say much more about her, other than confirming she is indeed one of the most consistently successful popstars in history.

 

I think comparing this to Beyoncé post-2013, Beyoncé actually changed the perception of her as an artist. She was already respected, a multi-Grammy winner and all that, but ST (its quality x its release x her elusiveness) really changed her trajectory and if it didn't make her a legend, it laid the groundwork like no other moment in her career, and allowed Lemonade and Homecoming (both again doing quality x release x elusiveness) to do the rest of the work. I don't see Folklore, Evermore and the Folklore Live Sessions doing the same job. And I think T*ylor will be considered a legend, it's just that Beyoncé did what few others have: fast-tracked the process and made her into one while still at her commercial/artistic peak rather than the usual path which is looking back in awe.

 

Edited June 27, 20224 yr by swissman

The girls are pressed 

 

 

https://twitter.com/ivymantics13/status/1541467978897756161?s=21&t=1zi4wwV8xKFIyI-ZLr0pBA

33 minutes ago, G'Day said:

I’ll never truly understand why Bey refused to accept streaming for so long when it was so clear that that’s where the industry was going, but B7 is a step in the right direction. 

Jay and Bey had took a huge misstep with Tidal. They knew streaming was the way forward and thought they could be ahead of the curve capitalizing on it. They thought people cared about HiFi music when everyone just had cheap Apple wired earphones that came with the box. They thought just because you create an Avengers type collab of investors, everybody's fanbase would tune in. (Bey said that meeting was egoless ). They thought the general public cared about how much money artists were paid and decided to charge $20/mo compared to Spotify's free or $5/mo student plans. If that were the case, Spotify wouldn't have been on top since the royalties they pay artists are absolutely abysmal. I think they just stuck to their grit and decided to be petty. I will say Tidal was ahead of its time, the philosophy of it isn't as appreciated because AM/Spotify are now copying it due to competition.

 

Renaissance is a completely reversal and I'm excited to see what she has planned. 

Edited June 27, 20224 yr by Starshine

Well

 

7 minutes ago, G'Day said:

Idk I think Taylor’s music gets more acclaim nowadays and she has managed to become thee streaming female giant in the last few years. I lowkey think she’s actually managed to dominate streaming more than Bey has ever dominated any form of consumption (physical, digital, radio, streaming) which in itself is extremely impressive considering she’s 16 years into her career (she’s also been the top IFPI female artist for the last 3 years in a row).

 

All this to say I do think Taylor was able to smartly become more elusive in her personal life and more selective in her career while not sabotaging her commercial power and dominance in a way that Bey wasn’t able to (which is why they’re rightfully trying to course with Renaissance). 

I’ll never truly understand why Bey refused to accept streaming for so long when it was so clear that that’s where the industry was going, but B7 is a step in the right direction. 

T*ylor definitely is increasing her acclaim, I just don't see it as a very big change in the way she's seen overall. She's proving you can have quality and respect and success and I'm sure if Beyoncés music was more accessible during the 2010s it wouldn't change why/how she stepped into legendhood, but I do think that part of her allure is tha her music was not be force fed it through radio, promotion, ubquituity, etc., and even the fact that you could only buy Lemonade (unless you had TIDAL) made it much more of a work of prestige and luxury than standard pop music, which in some ways I think changes how people think of it on a baseline level.

 

As for streaming? I duno, I think the answer is just TIDAL...Beyoncé was really the only one who honoured the pledge they all seemed to take at the launch, the only one meaningfully invested in keeping her music exclusive to the platform and for what reason that may be, I think this explains why she kept important works like Lemonade off for so long. Maybe she assumed people would just move to TIDAL or buy it and the rest can just wait? It seems silly but she also does not seem to have been concerned with stats.

Beyoncé eclipses Taylor in cultural significance. Taylor is respected and very commercially successful, but it is just not the same. Beyoncé has had multiple cultural resets under her belt.

 

Taylor commercial dominance in streaming came from losing her masters and rallying her fan base to get back at Scooter. Very savvy smart move, but it was not organic. 
 

I love both but Beyoncé’s respect and significance trumps awards and sales at this point honestly. “It cannot be quantified.” 

Edited June 27, 20224 yr by simon

Well either way, I'm glad it all played out the way it has...it's been 6 years since her last solo release and even longer since her last promoted, standard release and longer yet since her last pop-leaning release (I'd say IASF) and all this really makes it feel like a COMEBACK even if she never truly left.

It's better to not talk about other stars here, our perception is completely subjective. Some of you don't follow other artists as much as B so it's difficult to see the changes. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Starshine said:

They thought people cared about HiFi music when everyone just had cheap Apple wired earphones that came with the box.

PLSSSSS 

 

No but for real, Tidal was a huge misstep. If they wanted to really push the artists getting paid less thing, it should’ve centred around shining a lot on actual struggling artists. No one was here for a bunch of +100millionaires crying about not getting proper payment.

 

I’m still a bit salty that Bey apparently rejected an Apple Music deal in loyalty to Tidal. 

Just now, BnPac said:

It's better to not talk about other stars here, our perception is completely subjective. Some of you don't follow other artists as much as B so it's difficult to see the changes. 

 

 

Yuh let's not 

 

 

____________

 

After Bey ignored the BETs I started believing we'd just get something Tuesday announced today like she did for the single announcement but it's crickets 

I'm glad that she didn't perform at the BET Awards becuase I like that Mariah got the "surprise" legend moment of the evening.

1 hour ago, Dreajae said:

For years there was a banner saying Lemonade wasn't available to stream. From there, alot of people simply assumed all her music was on Tidal. To this day I see so many comments on Tik Tok where they're asking about a song from the Gift, Lemonade and EIL that they've never heard of.

Yup I saw a comment from someone saying that they haven’t listened to Bey since she stopped putting her music on Spotify. They had no idea it was all on there now.

Why are we discussing Dr. Swift? 

 

2 minutes ago, G'Day said:

We can go back to discussing the nonexistent music video if you’d like

 

Sounds like a lose-lose

 

1 hour ago, giRLbye. said:

i think all the spotify stuff seems over sensationalized or maybe somebody can break it down on what all the perceived "damage" is about. sure she didn't have Lemonade on there for 3 years...thats just Lemonade...the rest of her discography was always there in full including her biggest hits & best selling albums. we're not talking about somebody like Jay, Taylor Swift, or others who had their discographies completely removed. so i fail to see how this is relevant outside of Lemonade playing catch up with the rest of her music in terms of streams.

 

then we talk about streaming being poor yet when the lists for most streamed females are out...isn't Beyonce always someone in the Top 5-10 of all time for just about every platform?

Spotify is a platform where most people listen to music that is suggested to them through playlists, adds and banners. The rest goes on Spotify to check for a song they've heard on radio, seen in a movie, heard in a club or seen online (Tik Tok, YouTube, Twitter, IG).

When they listen to a couple songs that they like from the same artist, they go on said artist page and follow. This does 2 things : the algorithm will always present new songs AND old songs from artists they like and he will be directly inform of every new releases from said artist. But the most important is that the person will always alone go back to the artist and songs he likes and knows. Like Coca-Cola. 

 

Spotify will of course favor new songs in their most popular play lists and old ones that were hits or are classics. But with no new hits, that's less songs in the play lists, that's less fans that you create. 

 

Now imagine an artist like Beyoncé, Lemonade was talked about in the media, there were parodies etc so some people will go check for Hold Up, they can't find it and then they'll check for Formation and they won't find it. Sorry they don't find. OK, they'll just move on, they won't add Bey's profile and they will just assume one should not check for that artist. 

Another thing to consider is that it's a loop : one person sees Hold Up on TV, goes to check it on Spotify, wow it's so good, requests in on radio, listens to it with his friends, the friends and radio listeners go on Spotify do the same etc. That's how 1B streams happen. And when that happens, for every person that played Hold Up a lot, the algorithm will suggest Crazy In Love, SL, Irreplaceable, LOT thus retroactively making said old hits even bigger and creating a familiarity with that artist (what we call fans).

 

Beyoncé missed all that. And you can see it when you look at how Lemonade is performing compared to 4. There are weeks 4 has the double of Lemonade's streams and that makes no sense. That's also why IASF is always her most streamed album. Because there's a stronger familiarity with those albums, even if Hold Up comes in a Playlists, most users are likely to skip it because they don't know it or it's not familiar to them. 

 

I hope that wasn't too long and made sense. 

I don’t think it was just TIDAL because she held her performances and FWT tour. I just think she wanted an elusiveness around Lemonade which may pay off later. It will become a bigger cult figure in music. The elusiveness almost made it more legendary. 
 

 

Hive, I love y’all, but these long essays some of y’all be writing all the time are wearing me out. 

Edited June 27, 20224 yr by Mr. Specialist

28 minutes ago, BnPac said:

It's better to not talk about other stars here, our perception is completely subjective. Some of you don't follow other artists as much as B so it's difficult to see the changes. 

 

 

Yeah a lot of people in this thread have their stan goggles on .

 

 

There’s no reason to believe Taylor’s form of acclaim is less substantial than Bey’s - the two just have very different brands. Bey is very regal and Taylor is America’s Girl. 

This is the Beyoncé base, stop the think pieces about Taylor and focus on your faves new lead single in 6 years!

2 minutes ago, TheArgonaut said:

This is the Beyoncé base, stop the think pieces about Taylor and focus on your faves new lead single in 6 years!

Its true, but the thinkpieces on Taylor are mostly positive and acknowledging of her status. She is the streaming queen and has been for the past 3 years, so its a compliment to see how she navigated into the streaming force she is today.

Anyway, I agree we should focus on Bey here.

8 minutes ago, TheArgonaut said:

This is the Beyoncé base, stop the think pieces about Taylor and focus on your faves new lead single in 6 years!

Who tf are you 

I don't wanna see Tidal attached to Beys album this year. I'm so serious. And it's no one's fault but hers cause she did things for her album that not even Jay did for his. The Tidal fraud jokes hurt her more than fans like to admit as well. 

 

I'm really working to move past that. Cause that was just painful to stan through. I want sis to get back on track and she's headed in the right direction I guess. But she's STUBBORN. Girl.. 

 

I do agree that Bey needs to take a pointer out of Taylors new book. She's starting to slow down but is making sure that her catalog has the legs to take an extensive break. Notice how quiet it is with the performance of her new song. She has a ton of smashes to be able to afford that grace. Beys been riding of Halo and sporadic solo top 10 or feature for a decade. 

I don’t get how people stalk other bases in case someone talks about their fave likeeeee… if I don’t like an artist I’m not entering their thread I won’t bother what they talk about because it doesn’t matter, it’s really that simple I promise

Edited June 27, 20224 yr by SashaDevachelli

17 minutes ago, simon said:

I don’t think it was just TIDAL because she held her performances and FWT tour. I just think she wanted an elusiveness around Lemonade which may pay off later. It will become a bigger cult figure in music. The elusiveness almost made it more legendary. 
 

 

i think FWT was partially becuase in 2017 she was planning to do Coachella and and I'd assume (as usual) a lot would transfer from FWT to her next big concert performance so the idea would have been to not release it and make it notable so that the GP/fans wouldn't be so intimately aware of it? I duno that's the only explaination I can give because aside from MCSWT which still had the HBO stand-alone videos, she's given us all the performance before, even small ones like Revel and Roseland.

 

Now I think she is just saving it for a legacy drop. Like, in 2073 when she DOES release it, it'll be a big deal kind of like when Aretha's Amazing Grace film finally got released, something from the vault that fans and non-fans alike will experience to re-discover what made her so great.