Obviously we know there are cultural/demographic factors that help explain Taylor’s widespread appeal over other artists, and we know that there are career-related factors as well, but y’all’s obsession with having to justify or over-explain a situation that we all should intuitively understand is giving insecurity.

Beyoncé said last year that she wants to sit back, enjoy her family and not work as much so i doubt that she’ll be doing anything differently for the other two acts promo wise and I’m at peace with that. This roll out shouldn’t be surprising to anyone when she literally said it last year in a magazine interview… That’s why I don’t understand the frustration with this base. 

 

Taylor is just on a different level commercially. I do agree that some of her marketing tactics are directly from Beyoncés play book but it’s not that she’s able to refine and do it better, it’s just that she has more mass appeal than bey so it seems more effective. As much as Rihanna’s comeback is hyped, I doubt she’ll even be able to achieve what folklore was able to. Rihanna and Beyoncé are the only current female black musicians who are even apart of these conversations and that should say a lot. 
 

Beyoncé is more famous than her music and that is not a bad thing. I believe she’s even more famous than Taylor and that is a result of how she was able to market herself (god-like, untouchable, setting trends etc). The impact she has left in the industry is solidified. If she played the game similar to Taylor she would’ve been at a bigger disadvantage than she already is. She was smart in creating a brand that transcends stats and numbers cuz if she didn’t… she would not even be apart of these conversations. Check where her peers are now. 

This boring album is going to do numbers and some will lose their minds again in here. It's a never ending cycle whenever a new pop star release and not shockingly they all release whenever Bey does.

 

Who's next? Rihanna? 

 

I wish they would at least keep that crap away from Bey's base.

can y'all just start quoting yourselves from last month because these are the same conversations we've had 200 times before

 

2 minutes ago, ToraeGilt said:

 

Beyoncé is more famous than her music and that is not a bad thing. 

honestly this is the goal. plenty of artists have giant songs and music and no imprint on history or culture

5 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

y’all’s obsession with having to justify or over-explain a situation that we all should intuitively understand is giving insecurity.

Oop. 

Why y’all talking about taylor swift album in here? Go talk about it in the taylor base wtf

 

 

anyway cuff it bridge is REALLY doing it for me today

42 minutes ago, Machete said:

With that being said, there a lot of reasons in their career decisions and marketing that make the 2 see different results, but I want to focus on 2 driving ones:

#1 Release schedule. This is pretty self-explanatory so I won't explain much, just look at how in 3 years Taylor went from a 50M Spotify debut with Lover to 180M for midnights  Her constant releases move was genius, and proved overexposure is something that can be avoided. Good news is, Bey has potential to use this strategy with the Acts (but if she handles each Act like how she did Renaissance then...)

 

#2 How they market themselves. Now I could write an essay on this aspect, particularly Taylor's choice but ain't nobody got time for this on ATRL. Basically, Taylor markets herself (Taylor Swift the person) as your best friend, Bey markets herself (Bey the person) as a God/Queen (your deity). Both marketing strategies can result in cult-like devoted fan bases, but honestly the best friend strategy is far more appealing to the masses, especially Gen Z (which speaks to Taylor's appeal for them). It forms the deepest kind of parasocial relationships. Taylor stans really think they are good best friends with Taylor and know her personally. Her personal lyrics aide this feeling. I am in NO WAY saying this is what Bey should do, in fact I think it can be extremely toxic and draining which is why Taylor seems to now be doing this strategy more distantly and more calculated than she did before (literally used to let fans come to her house for listening sessions )  I also think Bey could not play the role well, but it is a genius marketing strategy that really pays off like no other if done well.

 

 

From these 2 reasons, if I were working on Parkwood I would suggest the following:
- Release more frequently (as I said the acts are a perfect idea), but if that's not feasible then make sure it feels like each album era doesn't die out after the first 2 weeks...

- Make Bey "the person" more engaged with fans. I put 'the person' in quotes on purpose, because in reality it would obviously be her team, but the results are the same. She does NOT have to be going live on IG or inviting fans to her house to achieve this. Simple things such as a) "natural" looking social media posts, more specifically TikToks (right now her TikTok feed is pretty bad with heavily edited videos, for example the vinyl video would've been 100% more effective had it just been her walking into the store and talking to staff, smiling and signing. This personifies Bey way more, and is essentially what she did irl either way, but actually show it) or b) videos of Bey herself explaining her work (does not even have to be an interview, can be pre-recorded and uploaded on her accord).

The aforementioned suggestions are easily feasible for Bey to do and would NOT make her seem of "lower status" (which lbr I think is her main issue with doing traditional promo and what not). She would maintain the same amount of respect, if not gain more.

I actually really like deep-dive posts like this (especially more than the daily complainers). But while I get/agree how you arrived at certain points, I actually disagree with most of the suggestions. 

 

There are definite pros and clear cons to Bey's God/Deity-like presentation, but it honestly is what it is. I don't think at 41+ that she should be pivoting to give "relatable girl next door" because it works for others...or dancing on TikTok....nor should she be pushing to speak more. As a relatively blemish-free celeb who has upsold perfection for almost her entire career, she is in a very precarious position. Speaking more and being more "relatable" has its benefits, but the "more" Beyonce she pours out to the public, the more susceptible she is to be dragged about...something. Let's not pretend there isn't a bloodthirstiness for her downfall. An appetite to "knock her off her high horse" for everything from her race to the image of perfection she's carved out. I also just feel her mystique and "say less" approach not only is the era of (Old) Hollywood she aspired to and came up in, but likely informs how she stays sane amidst such a chaotic career path. 

 

I definitely DO AGREE she can and should be doing more of those Self Titled esque videos talking about her work and her process. But in almost studying her moves, IMO she is about her bag now more than ever. Sometimes to a fault. So I imagine what once was shared flippantly in a YouTube video or some hasty BTS clip will now sit as part of a carefully curated documentary for which she'll receive megabucks for (see: Homecoming). 

 

There's definitely room for improvement and things she can take from other acts (I liked Taylor's lil promo week schedule that didn't even detail much but still created buzz in a creative quirky way). I just think it has to make sense for the established Beyonce brand.

54 minutes ago, Machete said:

People have said Taylor's fanbase is teens since her breakout in 2008, those teens are in their 30s now sis 

 

She does have Gen Z appeal, but a fairly LARGE majority of her fanbase is young millennials 

It’s still true. She still appeals to a young audience.  She plays it very safe with her music and that is probably why. 

The truth is stan culture is all about being able to brag which fave is better. That's the heart of ATRL and why we keep going in circles with some subjects. Sure it's frustrating right now what is going on with Renaissance but knowing visuals are coming, plus 2 more acts and maybe a documentary. I dont feel sad about any of this because in the end Beyoncé will have the last laugh and the most cultural impact. 

 

Come in here in 2 years and i will bet you money that Beyoncé's Renaissance and her other two acts will be more remembered, talked about, copied, etc... than anything Taylor and Adele have released this year and the last.

 

Some music from certain artists have barely survived the change in decade and are barely talked about anymore. Meanwhile Beyoncé's music is all over Tik Tok starting random viral moments at any moment. 

 

Beyoncé right now i suspect is playing the long game. The plan is to release all the music, dont participate in the promotion and noise but when she feels like it, she will tour the music,  the streams will then go up anyway and her albums become classics over the years. I doubt people will remember next year who promoted their album or not. This is all for stan culture.

Lbr yall can't truly care about commercial success that much, otherwise you'd be in the Taylor base instead of this thread. Deep down I think we all know we'd much rather have the quality Bey serves us over success. Years from now we'll be glad we can still listen to the quality album she gave us this year. How it performed commercially won't matter (even though it did and still continues to perform well anyway).

1. Renaissance 

2. Lemonade 

3. BEYONCÉ 

4. Dangerously In Love

5. 4

6. I Am Sasha Fierce

7. Bday

1 minute ago, Blue Rose said:

1. Renaissance 

2. Lemonade 

3. BEYONCÉ 

4. Dangerously In Love

5. 4

6. I Am Sasha Fierce

7. Bday

16 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

Obviously we know there are cultural/demographic factors that help explain Taylor’s widespread appeal over other artists, and we know that there are career-related factors as well, but y’all’s obsession with having to justify or over-explain a situation that we all should intuitively understand is giving insecurity.

IMO I think the elephant in the room that no one is touching on is the race of posters and how it may understandably affect the perspective from which our opinions are being articulated. 

 

As a POC myself, it's first-hand understood that we have to work twice as hard to get half as far (because of skin color). And when we do push past the barriers that were meant to contain us to become universally adored (like a Bey or MJ) it's actually pretty monumental and its enormity shouldn't be minimized or dismissed.

 

At the same time, I can take myself out of myself, and see how someone who perhaps doesn't have that experience (e.g. a White member of the Hive) might think a like-for-like comparison between a Bey and Taylor (for example) works. Respectfully, though, it does not. 

 

Context, on all fronts, is crucial.

5 minutes ago, Daydream said:

Lbr yall can't truly care about commercial success that much, otherwise you'd be in the Taylor base instead of this thread. Deep down I think we all know we'd much rather have the quality Bey serves us over success. Years from now we'll be glad we can still listen to the quality album she gave us this year. How it performed commercially won't matter (even though it did and still continues to perform well anyway).

Well said. I want work from an artist that will sound good a year from now. Not something released to gain some quick money from fans and it being stuck sounding a mess in the discography years from now. Some of these artists will wish they spent more time creating instead of releasing whatever. When comes the time to perform these songs live and not being inspired by these quick microwave songs lol.  As a Bey fan that wont happen and that's all that matters to me. 

3 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

1. Renaissance 

2. Lemonade 

3. BEYONCÉ 

4. Dangerously In Love

5. 4

6. I Am Sasha Fierce

7. Bday

viola.gif

Some of you are a bit insecure 

14 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

1. Renaissance 

2. Lemonade 

3. BEYONCÉ 

4. Dangerously In Love

5. 4

6. I Am Sasha Fierce

7. Bday

1. Lemonade 

2. Renaissance 

3. ST

4. 4

5. B'Day 

6. Dangerously In Love 

7. IASF 

18 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

1. Renaissance 

2. Lemonade 

3. BEYONCÉ 

4. Dangerously In Love

5. 4

6. I Am Sasha Fierce

7. Bday

5 minutes ago, BnPac said:

1. Lemonade 

2. Renaissance 

What gives Lemonade the edge for you? 

30 minutes ago, Blue Rose said:

1. Renaissance 

2. Lemonade 

3. BEYONCÉ 

4. Dangerously In Love

5. 4

6. I Am Sasha Fierce

7. Bday

 

15 minutes ago, BnPac said:

Some of you are a bit insecure 

1. Lemonade 

2. Renaissance 

3. ST

4. 4

5. B'Day 

6. Dangerously In Love 

7. IASF 

1. Renaissance 

2. BEYONCÉ

3. B’Day

4. Lemonade

5. 4

6. IASF

7. Dangerously In Love

1 hour ago, Cbreezy said:

Not going for this. And I'm not even being a defensive stan. 

 

There are tangible numbers that can't be taken away from Taylor. They are objectively impressive and put her on a path to legend status. Or at least legend of her time.

 

But, like you said (albeit for different reasons), they should never be compared head-on. It just doesn't work on any logical metric. 

 

Taylor is massive in large part to her palatability to a wide, broad, and (let's face it) White majority. It is what it is. 

 

Beyonce, on the other hand, is a Black woman making Black music who has cut through so many barriers to become this universal beacon to everyone of every race. The universal nature of her success, popularity, and reverence is actually unprecedented given how much Blackness and Black artists are generally marginalised and even when popular are still subjugated. Bey cut through that to sit at the top. Only MJ before her truly managed this and sustained it. The semantics of her success IMO actually mean more and thus her being legitimately bigger than Taylor culturally speaking is not a matter of "feeling" I'd argue it's objective fact. 

 

The easiest way of highlighting this is: when Ren dropped or when Beyonce does something major in general, it permeates every lane: mainstream, urban, international, niche audiences. It's everyone, of every race, everywhere. Maybe not necessarily buying, but...experiencing, talking about etc.

 

Looking at Taylor. She is about to open HUGE (over a million in sales), her success and noteworthiness IMO is hyper-represented in her specific lane: the mainstream, white majority. Not that it's determinative nor the sole yardstick of success, but there are huge mainstream Urban platform and consumers that have ZERO clue Taylor even dropped. It of course doesn't matter. because it's not her primary audience. But, when flipping it, there wasn't a mainstream (White) platform that wasn't talking about Ren when it dropped. 

 

Again, there is no neat, race-avoidant, nor truly fair way of comparing them commercially. So we probably shouldn't.

I find Like Beyonce, Janet, Mary J beige etc their achievements are more outstanding to me because they did as black women with more “black music” but still crossed over.

 

Taylor isn’t a cross over artist. She makes Pumpkin Spice music. She isn’t risky. She isn’t outstanding but she is a commercial sales beast. I won’t take away from her talent cause her pen skills are AMAZING but she’s always been middle of the road. 

ST > REN > 4 > B’DAY > LEM > DIL > IASF
 

I thought the tour was going to be announced on the 18th? what happened to that? so no tour? i have a feeling she will wait to release all 3 acts before announcing a tour tbh. 

1 minute ago, jane said:

I thought the tour was going to be announced on the 18th? what happened to that? so no tour? i have a feeling she will wait to release all 3 acts before announcing a tour tbh. 

It's been delayed to November.

7 minutes ago, MrLovett said:

It's been delayed to November.

Who confirmed this?

1 minute ago, jane said:

Who confirmed this?

The same user who told us about Bey's plans for announcing the tour in October.