Inspired by recent Sabrina arguments  In pop music, there's been a trend of artists releasing slightly immature projects as adolescents, through bad (or non-existent) record deals, and then reintroducing themselves on a major label. This is often with a more realized vision, stronger vocals and production, and matured aesthetics.

 

What do you think about this? Should those earlier albums be separated? Or should they permanently remain as part of the artist's image & their album number?

 

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In the case of Katy, Lana and Charli, their "real" debut albums have a rougher low-budget quality, different aesthetics, and were released under small labels with minimal promotion. They were officially discontinued, but the fans covet them.

 

In the case of Michael, Selena and Sabrina, their "real" debut albums were contractual obligations, part of their broader work as child stars under Motown/Disney. There's a stark difference in genre, the way they presented themselves, and the level of creative freedom they were given. However, these albums are still available and had some degree of commercial success.

 

In many of these cases, the artist themselves criticize and/or disown the old music in some way, and they treat the rebrand as their true debut era. And most of their fans agree.

 

 

Other notable examples of this phenomenon:

• Lady Gaga's rock EPs as Stefani (official debut: The Fame)
• Chappell Roan's 'School Nights' EP and early acoustic music (official debut: Midwest Princess)
• Alanis Morissette's dance-pop albums under MCA (official debut: Jagged Little Pill)
• Ethel Cain's early albums as White Silas (official debut: Preacher's Daughter)
• Meghan Trainor's early indie albums (official debut: Title)
• Bjork's self-titled Icelandic album (official debut: Debut)

Edited June 12, 20251 yr by Kurt Hummel

Yes you don't get to just ignore them because they're flops

you could make a case for Selena because she dropped her band but Sabrina had a whole 4 album discography before emails

 

charli's, lana's and katy's are so obscure i don't think they really count, kinda of like Shakira's disowned albums

Yes. I never understood the concept of disowning part of your discography because you didnt have artistic control over it (or it flopped/was panned).

 

If anything, these albums make the subsequent releases seem a lot more impressive. Seeing an artist evolve or mature is much more interesting than following artists overly worried about constantly maintaining a certain standard of quality/success (from the very start, that is)

Edited June 12, 20251 yr by Jooj

I can understand why artists want to write them out, esp if they felt they were not in control in the same way they were later, but I think when you listen to some of them - something like lizzy grant aka - that basically sounds like a Lana album, which is just cheating, she knew what she was doing and she should own it
 

also, kiss and tell is all bops, who is Selena kidding

Well in most artists case it's rather about quality. In Lana's case for example, AKA is just phenomenal and Lana should eventually rerelease it, or re-record some songs or something.

 

Sabrinas record is also a cute little thing. I think her second album was far more offensive. The horrid album cover. the crap lyrics but the again Sabrina makes fun pop music now and shes better but shes still far from being a particularly interesting artist. I don't buy her act. She was more genuine and interesting in Emails. 

For me an artist can release hundreds of eps but when you release an album that's your debut. So yeah they should count

true romance is still my fave Charli album so yes 

A lot of these artists had a massive change in sound(Michael, Katy, Gaga, etc), that's different than waiting to label something your first album until it's popular. Michael's for example were decently successful before Off The Wall, it had nothing to do with popularity with him and was more about gaining creative control.

 

Like we know for a fact that Lana's constant rebrands and redebuts were because she was unsuccessful and had a bad reputation within the NY scene. That's a little different than something like Selena Gomez dropping a brand and focusing on what she personally had to say instead of Hollywood's (flawless) A&R team or Gaga picking up dance pop and inventing a whole persona around it.

Edited June 12, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

14 minutes ago, butterflymimi said:

true romance is still my fave Charli album so yes 

But the disowned album in question is 14 

 

 

The way Lana has like 3. And they're definitely up there with her official releases. 

I think its fair to not count them if it was an album that was published on a very insignificant scale. For example, those Shakira, Lana and Katy "debuts".

 

However you cant put Selena and Sabrina in the same box. Their debut albums were released on considerably big record labels and they were already established figures to the public. 

The likes of Katy's christian album, Lana's AKA and Gaga's Red & Blue? No. They essentially reinvented to completely different personas and musical acts after those. The likes of Miley and Sabrina ignoring or bashing previous work as they outgrow it is not the same, or else most albums by most artists would stop counting.

 

The real question is, how would people count Abel moving forward if he completely rebrands, since "The Weeknd is over" 

Don't forget about Marina 

8 minutes ago, Popboi. said:

The real question is, how would people count Abel moving forward if he completely rebrands, since "The Weeknd is over" 

That might depend on how many fans are left when that happens 

I think what ur referring to is breakthrough album not debut album. Debut literally means first or introduction album and there can only be one true debut.
 

So in the context ur talking about, it's their breakthrough album that essentially established them as the artist that they are. 

It depends: regarding Katy, Charli, and Lana - no, they were released on small labels/independently and not akin to their actual debut. Arguably, Selena too as she dropped "The Scene" and thus Stars Dance is her solo debut. Sabrina, however, yes - she released several albums, but I do understand her disconnect from them due to lack of creative control. 

To say that Revival is Selena's debut in this image is insane

She had 4 whole ass albums before that one 

Well Selena was the front woman of a band so stars dance is Selena's debut album as a soloist

53 minutes ago, butterflymimi said:

true romance is still my fave Charli album so yes 

We love that one but the OP is asking about '14' instead. I have never heard it tbh #fakefan and I've scrobbled her other stuff 10,000 times.

21 minutes ago, Lemonaade said:

I think what ur referring to is breakthrough album not debut album. Debut literally means first or introduction album and there can only be one true debut.
 

So in the context ur talking about, it's their breakthrough album that essentially established them as the artist that they are. 

No, this is a very specific situation, where the artist was reintroduced under different circumstances and had a "re-debut" of sorts, and their previous works were essentially removed from the canon entirely. An example of this is Bjork literally titling her album "Debut", despite it being her second or third album, to the historical record.

 

In terms of a breakthrough, one might say Charli's breakthrough album was Sucker or even Brat, but most will say her debut album was True Romance, despite the existence of 14. 

Edited June 12, 20251 yr by Kurt Hummel

1 hour ago, Mocha said:

you could make a case for Selena because she dropped her band but Sabrina had a whole 4 album discography before emails

 

charli's, lana's and katy's are so obscure i don't think they really count, kinda of like Shakira's disowned albums

Selena had three albums with & The Scene  

how is that any different from Sabrina?

Edited June 12, 20251 yr by Vixen Eyes

That was Sabrina & The Carpenters, Short & Sweet is her solo debut. 

8 minutes ago, Vixen Eyes said:

Selena had three albums with & The Scene  

how is that any different from Sabrina?

Sabrina was solo from the jump, Selena & The Scene is a band, her official solo debut is Stars Dance which isn't even in the OP. Like Gwen & No Doubt

 

 

 

Gaga and Katy's cases are different. They released an album under a different persona & different name, under a small label.

 

It was when they signed to new label (larger), they revamped their image and sound. So the canon starts that. Anything before that should still be "pre-debut" or "another name"