1 minute ago, Cruel Summer said:

I assumed they meant that many of its certifications come from territories where the units necessary for those certifications aren't very high compared to other countries and thus aren't particularly impressive, at least in that user's opinion. For example, it's certified Gold in Hungary and Portugal - but both those certifications are based on shipments, not actual sales, and they represent just 3,000 and 7,500 units respectively. Just looking at raw certifications doesn't really give much sense of holistic performance when the scale for a Gold cert ranges from 3k to 500k depending on the market in question.

What about certifications in Canada, Australia, Brazil, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, UK etc. Do those also come store bought? 

48 minutes ago, Jjang said:

 

For reference, European sales:

 

Prism - 1m

Self-Titled - 900k 

MDNA - 700k

ARTPOP - 600k 

ARTPOP sold at least 700k in Europe.

 

UK - 270k

Germany - 105k

France - 70k

Italy - 40k

Russia - 40k

Spain - 30k

Sweden - 30k

Switzerland - 20k

Norway - 10k

Poland - 10k

Austria - 10k

Netherlands - 10k

Finland - 7.5k

Denmark - 7.5k

Belgium - 7k

Portugal - 7k

Greece - 5k

Rest of Europe (Romania, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Moldova etc) ~20k

 

Most of these numbers are probably higher.

 

 

Edited April 17, 20233 yr by Hot Volcano

1 hour ago, vale9001 said:

a 2012 album vs a 2020 album 

 

the standard is a little bit different 

I meant it's year-end placements which fared a lot better

 

9 minutes ago, Jjang said:

What about certifications in Canada, Australia, Brazil, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, UK etc. Do those also come store bought? 

Feel free to ask the person who made the post again - I was just suggesting some clarity about what they meant. In at least the US, certifications can absolutely be influenced by labels, but that's not the case for MDNA since it sold more than its certified units according to Soundscan.

5 minutes ago, Hot Volcano said:

ARTPOP sold at least 700k in Europe.

 

UK - 270k

Germany - 100k

France - 70k

Italy - 40k

Spain - 30k

Sweden - 30k

Russia - 30k

Switzerland - 20k

Norway - 10k

Poland - 10k

Austria - 10k

Netherlands - 10k

Finland - 7.5k

Denmark - 7.5k

Belgium - 7k

Portugal - 7k

Greece - 5k

Rest of Europe (Romania, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Moldova etc) ~20k

 

Most of these numbers are probably higher.

 

I used 2017 numbers from CM for Madge vs 2021 for Gaga 

 

So Gaga’s AP 5 years in (which u argue is not a flop I assume) sold as much as Madonna’s tragic flop 30 years in? That’s your argument here? 

40 minutes ago, vale9001 said:

madonna has a biggest global fan base than all of them, especially when it was about buying albums. It's not shocking.

Overall it was a flop era with good sales at the very begginning, cause it was a follow up to a very huge album and a very successfull album.

 

Overall i think rebel heart (i guess it sold less than mdna) feels a most remembered era. 

Hard Candy wasn’t huge and Madonna was 53 during MDNA, the fact that it sold on par with albums like ARTPOP, 20/20 Experience, Self-Titled and Prism in Europe and South America is impressive and GMAYL was top 10 In many countries.

 

The only albums by female artists over 50 to do better than MDNA are Cher’s Believe, which was a fluke comeback, and Tina’s Wildest Dreams which was only bigger in Europe. 
 

So taking everything into account, I would say it’s an underperformance. 

Madonna is held to such an unfair standard compared to other pop girls 

 

Of course it wasn't a flop. It was a top 15 album of the year and she was in her 50s with no radio support barring Super Bowl weekend. 

 

Plus it gave us the absolutely iconic MDNA Tour with the morphing stage and incredible production. Much of the Eras Tour wouldn't have happened if that tour didn't exist as a frame of reference! 

It's a flop for her standards of course, but it sold on par with Femme Fatale which had radio payola and is considered a success by her stans

1 hour ago, Jjang said:

I used 2017 numbers from CM for Madge vs 2021 for Gaga 

 

So Gaga’s AP 5 years in (which u argue is not a flop I assume) sold as much as Madonna’s tragic flop 30 years in? That’s your argument here? 

No, ARTPOP was clearly an underperformance, same as MDNA, except it did better.

It was a flop era. GMAYL had a high debut based on her name but crashed down the charts immediately 1 or 2 weeks after its debut in nearly each country.

 

The tour was massive but that can't be attributed to the album. Madonna has an impeccable reputation when it comes to touring, so no matter how poorly the album performs people will always come to watch her shows. Just like they did for the tours to promote her other flop albums.

 

Had the album been better it would've sold better as well. The goodwill was there but GMAYL killed any hype. The fact the album only has three good songs on it with the rest being unbearable **** songs didn't help.

Considering it came out 30 years after her debut, I think it did amazing.mp3 

 

For sure the tour wasn't a flop but the singles were, TUTR and other songs were really bad.

Yes it flopped but I like this album about as much as Kylie's Kiss Me Once.

Yes but the tour was a success.  The album didn’t bomb or anything.  
 

 

I think she botched the singles choices.  GGW with a nicki verse would have done better.  Or I’m addicged.  I’m a huge HUGE GMAYL apologist but it was not the right lead single choice 

well if we're talking sales only, then relatively to its year and the stage of madonna's career it did fine

 

however, the sales were very frontloaded and the album was carried by the hype of her previous records and her name. recurrent streams for mdna are tragic for her standards. i personally find the record a bit underrated and there are some true gems and late career highlights on it, but in the eyes of the gp and many fans it was a flop. i think rebel heart would've been received a lot better had it been preceded by an actually successful (and acclaimed) album.

Not a flop-flop but it did killed all her momentum and career as a modern top commercial pop girl

5 minutes ago, Bloodflowers. said:

Not a flop-flop but it did killed all her momentum and career as a modern top commercial pop girl

American Life was an even bigger flop.

how can top 12 WW album be a flop?  these ******* trolling monsters and other dumb **** here... it was an underperformance for HER standards (quality and performance wise for sure) but still a great album (gang bang, GGW, love spent, some girls, i f'ed up, beautiful killer, best friend and ofc masterpiece). also, the tour was massive.

No imo, GMAYL was a decent hit and she had decent press for the tour/super bowl. Most artists would kill for that level of success for an era. 

 

I've never actually heard the album outside of a few songs but tbh it's cute too, nothing great but it's better than Ava Max's albums and I listen to her so  

An underperformance (by her standards) but certainly not a ‘flop’. 

41 minutes ago, Frozen99 said:

great album (gang bang, GGW, love spent, some girls, i f'ed up, beautiful killer, best friend and ofc masterpiece).

tasteful picks, those are indeed the highlights of the album 

2 minutes ago, John Slayne said:

tasteful picks, those are indeed the highlights of the album 

 + tutr is a guilty pleasure  

 

the thing is, even the M stans hated mdna before it was released because we were mad gayl was the lead AND she wasted a spot for it in SB (despite it giving her her last top 10). her voice felt buried under production AND it was a divorce album against Guy.. i g everything added to it not being particurarly liked by the stans.