Yes, I know, the vocals are there and that's important, sure. And it's her going back to her roots (somewhat), nice. I understand why it's taken more seriously than the dance album by many fans. But Renaissance can cut diamonds. Its concept, its world, its vision is so complete and contained and crystal clear. It doesn't begin or end, it's spherical, a perfect shape of music. That's so Bey to me, the star and the artist. Quality and control down to the silence between notes. Ren is her most cohesive album by light years. In comparison CC is sprawling and unfocused and messy, both in concept and execution. Other than the familiar sounds of the genre, it's largely without cohesion or continuity. It needed a clearer vision and an editor desperately. Ren is all control, CC is a project out of control. Even on my first listen at midnight it felt like a project that got away from her and which needed to have a deadline and not be tweaked and tinkered with for four years. I appreciate its ambition but so much about it just doesn't hit for me and in fact rubs me the wrong way.

 

Note to self when I'm a billionaire popstar and my own boss: Don't make an album out of spite.

1 hour ago, king_queen said:

Not the "will Beyoncé's music be remembered" conversations 27 years in. There is soooo much to drag Beyoncé for. That aint it.

Since I am the one who mentioned it, I will respond. It was not a drag at all but a question. It was not even an affirmation. I do wonder. I also didn't wonder if her music will be remembered, I asked if her music in the last decade will be remembered compared to what she put out before. DIL, 4 and even IASF seem much more likely to be remembered for the music itself than Lemonade and anything that followed. 

I also don't see what "27 years in" have to do with what I said. 

Edited May 7, 20242 yr by BnPac

to put it plainly: the album needs promo. 

1 hour ago, satellites.™ said:

This is going to sound far fetched, but it would NOT shock me if The Carters got clocked for some money laundering scheme in the future. 

 

It is not lost on me how many "business ventures" come and go under her/their name that we stop hearing about within a year or two.

How do you go this far all solely from tantrums on how the album is being ignored? That's one thing I don't like about ATRL Hive is that they not only do this but also let Bey get dogwalked all over this site and have done it for years. It's just as bad as Twitter Hive setting her up by quoting hate tweets incessantly. 

when people say the album too long I think... well what songs would you cut? because I genuinely wouldn't cut any of them, Alligator Tears is my least fave but I still consider it a 10/10 song. maybe Bey did try to trim it but found every song deserved its place.  when it's someone like Chris Brown or she-who-shall-not-be-named dropping 30-50 track albums of mediocre music I can see the argument for a more succinct album of quality songs, but when all 27 tracks on CC are stellar (yes even the interludes) I think it's justified.

Yeah generally I dislike Fantano but he was very much spot on in regards to Cowboy Carter.

 

To re-phrase what se said - It's a great album and addition to her discography but it could've had a more cohesive vision. The core songs are stellar but it truly is lengthier than it really needed to be. If you stripped away the unnecessary bits there is another Renaissance in the rough there, but there was just not enough finesse when it came to the execution. 

 

This is how I've had the album in my library since like 2 weeks after release and I've been listening to this front to back almost everyday:

 

Spoiler

1 AMERIICAN REQUIEM 

 

2 BLACKBIIRD 

 

3 16 CARRIAGES 

 

4 PROTECTOR 

 

MY ROSE - cute but adds nothing and drags on the first part of the album

 

SMOKE HOUR ★ WILLIE NELSON 

 

5 TEXAS HOLD 'EM 

 

6 BODYGUARD 

 

DOLLY P 

 

7 JOLENE

 

8 DAUGHTER 

 

SPAGHETTII  - just awful all around

 

ALLIIGATOR TEARS - good song but adds nothing to the album and makes for a boring middle part

 

SMOKE HOUR II 

 

JUST FOR FUN  - good song but adds nothing to the album and makes for a boring middle part

 

9 II MOST WANTED 

 

10 LEVII'S JEANS - kept it but i skip it more often than not, the AUYIM of the album if you will

 

11 FLAMENCO 

 

THE LINDA MARTELL SHOW 

 

12 YA YA 

 

12 OH LOUISIANA - only kept it for continuity because of the weird cutout from Ya Ya, really should've been part of the main song

 

13 DESERT EAGLE 

 

14 RIIVERDANCE

 

15 II HANDS II HEAVEN 

 

TYRANT  - her most overrated song in forever 

 

SWEET ★ HONEY ★ BUCKIIN'  - I like this but it's more like a My House type of situation. Great bonus track but not quite part of the main album

 

16 AMEN 

 

The interludes are cool and would be nice additions to a visual but there was no need for them on the actual tracklist.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Lose My Breath said:

She really needs to find a good balance between keeping her secrecy, and including her fans.  

She did. ST and Lemonade were the balance. 

 

She was extremely private and still did whatever the f she wanted but there was content for the fans to enjoy and excitement around the projects. 

 

Nowadays you can't even get a booklet from the woman. It's beyond ridiculous. 

ultimately the tracklist is great but if she continued 16-tracks i stand by:

1. AMERIICAN REQUIEM
2. 16 CARRIAGES
3. TEXAS HOLD 'EM
4. BODYGUARD
5. JOLENE
6. DAUGHTER
7. ALLIIGATOR TEARS
8. II MOST WANTED
9. LEVII'S JEANS
10. YA YA
11. DESERT EAGLE
12. RIIVERDANCE
13. II HANDS II HEAVEN
14. TYRANT
15. SWEET HONEY BUCKIIN'
16. AMEN

The physical album tracklist is highkey what the album should've been. Just add Linda Martell Interlude into YA YA and it's golden. 

 

The short, album "nothing" songs like Flamenco, My Rose, and Desert Eagle should've been cut or tacked as bonus tracks. As art as those songs are, they do nothing but lengthen up the album and push regular people away. 

The only thing I really would get rid of, if I had to, is the spoken interludes, and Spaghetti

 

Spaghetti could've been a bonus track, or something

Edited May 7, 20242 yr by Lose My Breath

Whew it's getting murky. 
 

I was blindly a "she has a plan" girl during act i but I've since crossed over to the "she is a sick woman" side. Starting to believe she has a stress kink and likes inducing it onto her fans. 

the CMAs after they saw today's streaming update 

 

34 minutes ago, BnPac said:

Since I am the one who mentioned it, I will respond. It was not a drag at all but a question. It was not even an affirmation. I do wonder. I also didn't wonder if her music will be remembered, I asked if her music in the last decade will be remembered compared to what she put out before. DIL, 4 and even IASF seem much more likely to be remembered for the music itself than Lemonade and anything that followed. 

I also don't see what "27 years in" have to do with what I said. 

Okay gurl

 

7 minutes ago, period sis said:

The physical album tracklist is highkey what the album should've been. Just add Linda Martell Interlude into YA YA and it's golden. 

 

The short, album "nothing" songs like Flamenco, My Rose, and Desert Eagle should've been cut or tacked as bonus tracks. As art as those songs are, they do nothing but lengthen up the album and push regular people away. 

Desert Eagle CUT?

 

Just now, Burn said:

Desert Eagle CUT?

 

unless she makes it longer and cuts real DUDS like just for fun, then yes. CUT!

1 hour ago, Kh-Loud said:

We need a BJORK inspired album full of IM THAT GIRLLL with weird visuals…. Then she can transition into a flopped indie has-been/Legend era! 

The good sis listens to Bjork when she paints, she's a stan.

 

This though they're both geniuses.

 

22 minutes ago, Lose My Breath said:

It makes me sad to see all the negative takes about the album, just because it's so good, and you can tell she worked really hard on it, despite her carelessness after release (at least to our eyes).  She appears to be flippant about her music, so it's easy for some of us to feel that way too, but I really don't think her actions are an accurate reflection of her feelings.  She probably feels like she's worked really hard on it, considering there is a lot we haven't seen. 

 

She really needs to find a good balance between keeping her secrecy, and including her fans.  

 

 

She probably feels she's in her "been there, done that" era, which means letting the music speak for itself, but also implying that she has nothing left to prove.

 

I can survive the no visuals thing, but choosing not to perform her music is where I draw the line...

Should hit a billion sometime tomorrow

I'd rather have another #1 single than visuals

 

 

just something about seeing Bey on top is so pleasing to me

Tbh I love CC, but I can acknowledge that it's a bit perplexing. A good half, maybe 2/3 of it would sound right at home on country radio (not something I listen to willingly, but you will inevitably end up in a store/uber tuned into a station when you live in Oklahoma lmao). Those songs are different for Beyoncé, but they're still ultimately fairly conventional. It makes them stand out a little oddly not just with the more adventurous tracks on the album, but with much of her work since self-titled. It's unfair to call it a regression because, again, it's new to her, but idk it's like... almost uncharacteristically tame to me? So between that + the time investment, I'm not returning to it as frequently and obsessively as I did with Rennie.

Edited May 7, 20242 yr by cloudbusting

2 minutes ago, period sis said:

The physical album tracklist is highkey what the album should've been. Just add Linda Martell Interlude into YA YA and it's golden. 

 

The short, album "nothing" songs like Flamenco, My Rose, and Desert Eagle should've been cut or tacked as bonus tracks. As art as those songs are, they do nothing but lengthen up the album and push regular people away. 

I hear that. 

 

One day (today?) it'd be cool to have a transparent convo in this Base about how (IMO) the extra long tracklist for CC was Bey's way of acclimating to the streaming-era cheat-code of:

 

"longer albums = more streams = bigger sales = longer longevity"

 

It's not foolproof and some acts have flopped or dropped like a rock with lengthy albums (Usher's latest and those Future/Metro Boomin albums), but generally it works. Especially for acts whose music people are checking for anyway (like Bey). She dropped an album with a preceding hit and drummed up a ton of buzz/press/dialog about a genre shift. So, even on the merit of curiosity listens alone, she stands to open big and sustain on the charts longer with a long album than she would with a 10 track release. 

 

I can't be convinced that the perfectionist in Bey saw some of those short "nothing" songs as essential to the story she was telling with CC. IMO, it was her "premium" and "artsy" way of doing exactly what we critique Chris Brown for and successfully pulling off what Taylor also pulled off (but besting her at it, as Bey's album earned universal acclaim whereas TS' own fans dragged hers).

 

And btw, I'm not mad at any of this at all. I'm actually here for the shenanigans. I like that Bey seems to "get it" and IMO it's a way of her moving with the times beyond just the music itself. 

 

Spoiler

If we're really allowed to "go there" and obviously this is a safe space to do so, I think a big part of her huge first week sales were due to the length of the album. More tracks = more streams. It was very advantageous, especially given the faux pas with the short pre-order frame for the physicals. Not to mention to f**k ups with the physicals too.  

Granted I too revelled in the big opening, there was so many "see! don't ever doubt Bey!" posts on here that IMO didn't factor the strategic moves made into the equation.

 

The true test would have been (and will, perhaps, be with Act II) if she dropped a short 10-track album. 

 

In a way, it doesn't matter much so long as Bey continues to play the game. Be that another super long album with Act III or big features for the added streams. Hell, maybe both.

 

Levi's Jeans is the only skip of the album imo. I loathe that guy's voice.

3 hours ago, kimberly said:

from an academic perspective, Lemonade and Cowboy Carter are the superior albums.

I do agree on Lemonade but why do you think so for CC? Strictly academically speaking, CC has songs like 2MW, Just for fun (which are lower than any lows on Ren) and is bloated by some of those interludes and short songs. Not to mention the transitions on some songs needed better work, she is still belting in Ya Ya when Oh Louisiana starts. It has very brilliant moments : American Requiem is a slap, Daughter, the run from 2H2H to Sweet but as a cohesive product, it falls short to Ren and imo it's not just because Ren is fun music.

 

Renaissance to me is crisp, is neat, flawless from beginning to end and the transitions between the songs are seamless. CC is a great album but strictly academically speaking, I feel like it does not compare to the musical rigorousness and tightness that is Renaissance. The latter is also way more experimental, songs like Alien Superstar, Cozy, Pure/Honey and American Has A Problem among others put her musical genius in full display. 

Edited May 7, 20242 yr by BnPac

I love CC sooo much but I already reduced it to 14 tracks + 1 interlude (Oh Lousiana... so it won't f*ck up Ya Ya) on my playlist.

It took me months to be able to cut a Renaissance song from my playlist.

1 minute ago, Pepo said:

Levi's Jeans is the only skip of the album imo. I loathe that guy's voice.

one day we Posty's Rags haters WILL win the war, just know that

 

15 minutes ago, Pepo said:

I can survive the no visuals thing, but choosing not to perform her music is where I draw the line...

Tbh that's where I am. I do find videos and her visual components a big part of her legacy and I think she's missing on building iconic moments with it and strengthening her music but if they are out of the pictures, she could at least give us what made most of us into stans in the first place : one or 2 performances per era wouldn't kill her tbh.