I don't like how they talk about religious people, we should be wary of any ideology that comes out of Europe

1 hour ago, Arrows said:

Social capitalism (eg. Scandinavia) is the best working system that has ever been implemented.

True. Its the best of both worlds.

5 hours ago, Smarticle said:

ATRL user who likes to post a lot of political commentary, Ariana grande stan on the side

Gay dylexsia!

It's always better to discuss socialist or communist or capitalist policies than the terms because, like with political identities, people project.

You see the biggest contradictions with how people discuss China.

In one breath, people argue China is a capitalist society with billionaires and how socialists shouldn't look up to the Chinese model.

But then in the next, people argue China is an authoritarian communist society where innocent billionaires are killed by government degree.

As an American, it's clear that the best economic set of reforms my country can do resembles Dengist China.

The "uwu you just need social democracy, big welfare systems!!!" girlies are usually Europeans from nations of like 100 people sitting on a giant pile of something like $10b in oil reserves and the richest person is like one billionaire from a royal family that is largely apolitical due to decades of inbreeding. Some of us actually have countries that need managing and building!

The US is far too large in terms of size and population to not have the government exert control over strategic industry.

Maybe Kamala in 2029 needs to put Elon in jail on the crime of simply being rich, etc.

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by Communion

There is no country practicing true communism, as it was too ideal to even try to implement it. China is not communist country, it's capitalism with a huge central government influence.

I need to learn more about it

I don't know if Commmunism is achievable but it's not a coincidence that most countries that rank highest for quality of life have the most generous social welfare policies and would be considered the most left wing (at least economically). I think we should at least work for policies that give power to workers and encourage the sharing of resources and wealth.

I think we need to be open to alternatives as late-stage capitalism reaches its end-stage. I would rather living conditions were fairer for everyone and I think communism has more opportunities for that to be the case compared to living in a free market capitalist society.

However, not to be all horseshoe about it (because a centrist I am not, nor do I agree with the sentiment behind that theory) but I can see arguments about how it might not work and can be detrimental in its own way. I'd like a happy medium (socialism I guess?) but that wouldn't quash the extreme wealth we need to curb to end the capitalist hellscape we're living in right now.

Doesn't work, never worked, will never work.

That don't mean capitalism is the right answer either because that has fundamental problems i.e this belief that unlimited growth is something to aspire.

No thanks!

3 hours ago, Arrows said:

Social capitalism (eg. Scandinavia) is the best working system that has ever been implemented.

I remember a time when leftists were using Scandinavian countries as great examples of how things should be done.

Now most leftists are radical lunatics obsessed with the USSR, praising Stalin and Mao, hence why people have slowly stopped taking them seriously.

And even if you wanna go back in time and praise countries that don't exist anymore, there was Yugoslavia, a socialist country that was a million times more normal than the USSR. But no.

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by possiblymaybe

9 hours ago, KatyPrismSpirit said:

lol

ot: good on paper, horrible in reality

The Communists in question:

• Cuba: Developing lung cancer vaccine.

• China: Making better phones than iPhones so Trump had to ban them altogether.

• USSR: Winning the space race against the US (you know that it required much more than having a man on the moon.mp3, right?)

9 hours ago, Bloodflowers. said:

Communism ran by socially conservative leaders in most countries, image how gagged capitalist countries would've been if a woman leader ran left wing economy as well as making socially progressive moves back in the 20th century

Cuba is a pioneer when it comes to this. The first Socialist state to legalise gay marriage

8 hours ago, BrokenMachine said:

I don't idealize it, but I recognize that it played a huge counterpart of capitalism, and it had huge influence into capitalists doing anything they could to convince of the benefits of their ideology. Once the URSS fell, the capitalism mask fell down too, they didn't have to pretend anymore, so the working class has had it worse year after year while the capitalists keep on accomumulating billions. It's no wonder that many remember the 80s as the last time that life was somewhat worth living

Thanks for pointing this out. Many people don't know that the social policies implemented by both Roosevelt with the New Deal in the US and European Christian Democratic Parties were largely issued to counter the Socialist influence of Eastern Europe.

8 hours ago, Sheep said:

By definition, communism requires no money, classes, or private property, which isn't possible in the world we currently live in. Anybody with a negative view of a political system that doesn't exist in practice yet, based on the forced failure of countries that weren't actually communist, is a moron.

This is a highly inaccurate statement. Do you realize that Marxism is being taught in Political Economy classes, right? Which by definition entails money

Marx never said that. If anything, Anarchists believe in a stateless society, hence he called them "asses".

Marx argued that the state could be a tool of oppression, but the actual source of oppression is class division, since the bourgeoisie may get the state apparatus to oppress the proletarians. He also added that the centralisation of power within a strong state is essential to ensure the rule of the working class, which is what the revolutionaries de facto did.

Meanwhile, Engels was the one to theorise that the state may be withered after a very long period of class eradication, but there's a difference between a withered state and a stateless one.

PS: No private property as in factories and warehouses being run by workers. Houses, phones, etc. are personal properties.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Pepo

7 hours ago, lululula said:

A failed concept. It has never worked.

China lifting almost its entire population out of poverty and skyrocketing its GDP levels; Cuba and North Korea still resisting after decades of sanctions and economic blockades; Vietnam's economy growing; USSR transitioning from a feudal system to an industrialised state and having the first man in space in just 30 years.

Sure, Jan.

5 hours ago, Arrows said:

Social capitalism (eg. Scandinavia) is the best working system that has ever been implemented.

Sadly, it's a system that thrives on the exploitation of the Global South. See how little brands like H&M pay workers in developing countries.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Pepo

3 hours ago, Communion said:

It's always better to discuss socialist or communist or capitalist policies than the terms because, like with political identities, people project.

You see the biggest contradictions with how people discuss China.

In one breath, people argue China is a capitalist society with billionaires and how socialists shouldn't look up to the Chinese model.

But then in the next, people argue China is an authoritarian communist society where innocent billionaires are killed by government degree.

As an American, it's clear that the best economic set of reforms my country can do resembles Dengist China.

The "uwu you just need social democracy, big welfare systems!!!" girlies are usually Europeans from nations of like 100 people sitting on a giant pile of something like $10b in oil reserves and the richest person is like one billionaire from a royal family that is largely apolitical due to decades of inbreeding. Some of us actually have countries that need managing and building!

The US is far too large in terms of size and population to not have the government exert control over strategic industry.

Maybe Kamala in 2029 needs to put Elon in jail on the crime of simply being rich, etc.

We need to have this conversation tbh.

Yes, Socialism is needed. People can't afford to pay for their groceries, utilities, gas, rent, and so on. Capitalism is crumbling before us.

3 hours ago, GipJo said:

There is no country practicing true communism, as it was too ideal to even try to implement it. China is not communist country, it's capitalism with a huge central government influence.

China is doing literal textbook socialism as we speak. And yes, there are different forms of Socialism because as Marx stated, each country has its own different material conditions.

Have there been capitalistic elements in China? Yes, and it's what Marx theorised when he claimed that capitalism is essential for the transition to Socialism to take place.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Pepo

1 hour ago, Pepo said:

Cuba and North Korea still resisting after decades of sanctions and economic blockades

Have you seen how the Cuban people are literally starving and living in crumbling infrastructure? Who wants to live like that? Most of them are moving to Central American countries and Mexico to escape communism.