I mean China will probably find a way to subsidize having children and make cost of living easier to encourage folks to have kids. Meanwhile the US is just gonna force rape victims to go give birth so that they can continue to subsidize billionaires owning multiple yachts soooo idk you tell me which is more worrisome 

If anything China's government is in a unique position to effectively take on these challenges because of how tightly they control their economy.

44 minutes ago, DivaCup said:

I don't get this obsession with birth rates. I think whatever happens, people will always procreate. People are kind of opting out of it and I don't think that's cause for concern. Why would anybody worry about dwindling human population?

The biggest problem is not really population decline, it's more that there will be too many old/retired people compared to the younger working age population that will have to pay way more taxes to support them, when it reaches a certain point the welfare system will simply collapse because there's no way this can be sustained the older the people get

 

Also an older population means less workforce and eventual economic stagnation, Japan has had low birth rates for half a century now and it's a big reason why their economy stagnated since the 90s, this can be solved through immigration but as we can see immigration is getting massive backlash all across the world right now so it doesn't seem likely either

I'm more worried about the US, honestly.

Not in the slightest, not even after reading through this thread. 

This feels overdramatic tbqh

girl we got bigger fish to fry

 

especially with the madness that is the US

39 minutes ago, BionicWooHoo said:

I mean China will probably find a way to subsidize having children and make cost of living easier to encourage folks to have kids. Meanwhile the US is just gonna force rape victims to go give birth so that they can continue to subsidize billionaires owning multiple yachts soooo idk you tell me which is more worrisome 

Except this doesn't work. 
 

Efforts to encourage people to have children have failed all over the world, even when people are given exactly what they say they want. The Nordic countries offer incredible free childcare, paid familial leave, extensive parental support, and a host of other social welfare programs designed to encourage people to have children. Their birth rates are among the lowest in Europe. 
 

Culture has simply shifted massively, mostly due to unprecedented global prosperity. The more prosperous countries are, the lower their birth rates. It's a trend that's held true across cultures, all over the world. It's a very difficult problem that goes far beyond policy changes. Modern humans have the option to prioritize other things instead of child rearing. 
 

People also forget context due to current instability but, relatively speaking, this is EASILY one of—if not the absolute BEST—times EVER to have children for the vast majority of the world. Lowest global poverty ever, highest literacy rates ever, most social mobility, lowest infant mortality, you name it. In nearly every measurable way, this is the best and most supported time to be alive. For most of human history (literally like 99% of it), people relied on substance farming and died before they turned 40. 
 

All to say, countries aren't going to solve this by trying to entice citizens to have children. That hasn't worked anywhere, even when extreme measures have been taken. The only solution is massive immigration or figuring out automation quickly enough that we won't need as large a work force. 

Edited September 17, 20251 yr by DevilsRollTheDice

Ijbol these people aren't their neighbouring countrymen of China.

I'm worried about the colour revolution and peaceful evolution that the west tries to do right now.

 

 

I don't give a **** abt China

Robots are the answer

i dont think about china

 

China about think don't i

Yes Every day.

2 hours ago, Space Cowboy said:

I wonder if China might be the first country to mass-produce lab-made artificial humans as a response to population collapse. They could easily develop the technology, and their government is less constrained by ethics. That would be very sci-fi / dystopic.

Please don't give them any ideas.

Edited September 18, 20251 yr by Onyxmage

I don't care about this planet, period. As long as it doesn't explode before I die, I'm fine. Earth could be wiped from existence the day after I die and I would have absolutely no issue with it. 

3 hours ago, mojitos said:

The biggest problem is not really population decline, it's more that there will be too many old/retired people compared to the younger working age population that will have to pay way more taxes to support them, when it reaches a certain point the welfare system will simply collapse because there's no way this can be sustained the older the people get

 

Also an older population means less workforce and eventual economic stagnation, Japan has had low birth rates for half a century now and it's a big reason why their economy stagnated since the 90s, this can be solved through immigration but as we can see immigration is getting massive backlash all across the world right now so it doesn't seem likely either

Not really when Japanese government doesn't have a tight grip of their economy like Chinese government does, they don't operate on the same system so I don't think Japan is the indicator of how China is going to be. If any government can solve this issue is them, if they can't fix it, no country can. Immigration is not the only solution.

There's over 2 Billion of them. WTF do you mean collapse?! Couldn't they use the decline lol

humans will be grown like in the matrix, its happening very soon. 

3 hours ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

Except this doesn't work. 
 

Efforts to encourage people to have children have failed all over the world, even when people are given exactly what they say they want. The Nordic countries offer incredible free childcare, paid familial leave, extensive parental support, and a host of other social welfare programs designed to encourage people to have children. Their birth rates are among the lowest in Europe. 
 

Culture has simply shifted massively, mostly due to unprecedented global prosperity. The more prosperous countries are, the lower their birth rates. It's a trend that's held true across cultures, all over the world. It's a very difficult problem that goes far beyond policy changes. Modern humans have the option to prioritize other things instead of child rearing. 
 

People also forget context due to current instability but, relatively speaking, this is EASILY one of—if not the absolute BEST—times EVER to have children for the vast majority of the world. Lowest global poverty ever, highest literacy rates ever, most social mobility, lowest infant mortality, you name it. In nearly every measurable way, this is the best and most supported time to be alive. For most of human history (literally like 99% of it), people relied on substance farming and died before they turned 40. 
 

All to say, countries aren't going to solve this by trying to entice citizens to have children. That hasn't worked anywhere, even when extreme measures have been taken. The only solution is massive immigration or figuring out automation quickly enough that we won't need as large a work force. 

If it's prosperity keeping those countries from breeding then the social collapse itself is the solution. Either that, or attack the conditions that define decreasing birth rates as a problem to begin with. It's only a problem under our current status quo that requires infinite growth and wastes countless resources. The current amount of resources in the world are enough to sustain everyone with not more, if not less labor than currently exists.

I don't worry 

 

my country is falling apart from the inside so I don't worry about China 

 

 

         please wake me when it's over....

 

 

i visit China big cities twice a year for work and them seem fine and rich lol.

i should be worry about my own poor country.

谁将要检查我，宝贝？

 

37 minutes ago, Shinkirou said:

If it's prosperity keeping those countries from breeding then the social collapse itself is the solution. Either that, or attack the conditions that define decreasing birth rates as a problem to begin with. It's only a problem under our current status quo that requires infinite growth and wastes countless resources. The current amount of resources in the world are enough to sustain everyone with not more, if not less labor than currently exists.

Societal collapse likely will "solve" the problem if country's are unwilling to accept immigration and changing social norms. Obviously that "solution" is on the other side of utter devastation. 
 

As for redefining the problem, I agree that's possible in theory but quite difficult in practice. These upside down population pyramids are going to create very old populations that rely on young workers to fund social welfare programs. Not sure there's a way around that. Even if society simplified somewhat, you'll always need more young workers than old people who cannot contribute. 

Edited September 18, 20251 yr by DevilsRollTheDice