9 minutes ago, Club classic said:

when's the last time you got something from her newsletter? I haven't received anything since February even though I did not unsubscribe  I'm scared I will not get a Beyhive code

Didn't you get the announcement email today?

Without the rejections and losses, I'm not even sure we would have a wonderful project like CC (even René). I think it was necessary for her as an artist and also for her amazing catalogue – she kept pushing, never gave up and simply created one of the best concepts of her career. In 100 years, the world will talk about her trailblazing musical repertoire, her impact in the music industry, her forward-thinking concepts but also how she led by example and showed her community that it's never too late to learn about your history, and above all to never stay in your comfort zone to achieve the incomparable - A LEGEND

Edited February 4, 20251 yr by Crayzik

36 minutes ago, Cbreezy said:

They do, but I will always scream from the rooftop that 4 is actually her most deserving...musically. And remains one of the most disrespectful and unjust snubs.

 

She set out to and did ultimately craft an all-encompassing body of work that in many ways was right up the Grammys alley. The limited noms was a joke.

 

IMO, fans do a lot of retrofitting and slip into the bad habit of buying the idea that the Grammys are a meritocracy. As if the albums that make the shortlist are "always deserving". It's the same mindset that sees a lot of fans "conveniently" playing down the quality of projects that underperform or projects that represent a tricky time in their fave's trajectory. 

 

Context is everything. The Grammys have taken a few major turns over the decades. In the 80s/90s, it was still overtly an Old (White) Boys Club that prioritized what they saw as "real" music (e.g white bands etc). Hence why many of our idols don't have "that" many Grammys (MJ, Whitney, Janet, Mariah).

 

In the 2010s, some kind of shake-up occurred and they went the route of commercial success with the noms. Some of which are just farcical in hindsight. 

 

Looking at the year 4 was snubbed, are we really buying into the idea that Rihanna's Loud (which was nominated for AOTY) was better than 4...as an ALBUM? Similarly, Bruno Mars (who had big hit SINGLES that era), are we saying that Doo-*** and Hooligans as top-to-bottom ALBUM was better than 4? Bey wasn't even nominated in the R&B categories properly. WTF?

 

It's largely a popularity contest that occasionally pivots to quality when its wig is tugged.

 

IMO, the wildness of the snubs shakes out as:

 

1) 4 - for the reasons laid out above
 

2) Renaissance - insanity, Both in terms of the critical acclaim and the subtext of previous snubs. The definition of cutting one's nose to spite their own face. 

 

3) Self-titled - the visual album was actually a game-changer, there literally was no comparable winner. Though, for different reasons, I put this in the CC/Grammy category. Is the music, holistically, my fave Bey album? No (even though still stellar). More than anything, the broader context and impact (changed the game) meant there really was no other option and yet somehow it went to Beck. 

 

Honorable Mention

 

4) Lemonade - strong album, iconic era, and was the release most aligned with what the Grammys presents itself as (i.e. quality over commercialism and celebrating of releases that move the cultural needle). Another CC situation for me. Not where my favorite Bey music is housed, but all things considered, it deserved the win. Playing Devil's Advocate slightly, Adele's 25 was monstrous and, importantly, was actually good. So, I see where the conundrum may have come for the committee when it comes to Bey vs Adele. BUT...Bey should have been the pick given the previous snubs and just the terrible optics of going any other route (especially Blue Eyed Soul given the social climate. Extremely tone deaf of them).

Agreed. Unfortunately, 4 didn't get its recognition until years later because at the time it went against what was popular and that worked against it commercially and for Grammy's running. 
 

But ya pretty much all her albums from 4-Renaissance deserve AOTY more than CC imo. In fact, I still think it's ludicrous that Taylor has won it that many times when she has like 1 album that's even close to the level of Bey's albums from 2011 on

Edited February 4, 20251 yr by Iaintsorry

49 minutes ago, Club classic said:

when's the last time you got something from her newsletter? I haven't received anything since February even though I did not unsubscribe  I'm scared I will not get a Beyhive code

if you don't open them they might have started to go to your "junk" or "promotions" folder instead of main inbox.

 

I last got an email from SHOP BEYONCÉ and BEYONCÉ both in December, and now the pre-sale information on Monday.

50 minutes ago, Iaintsorry said:

Didn't you get the announcement email today?

I did not  well I guess I'll have to wait til the 13th

9 minutes ago, kimberly said:

if you don't open them they might have started to go to your "junk" or "promotions" folder instead of main inbox.

 

I last got an email from SHOP BEYONCÉ and BEYONCÉ both in December, and now the pre-sale information on Monday.

unfortunately it isn't in my junk either  

7 hours ago, swissman said:

4 may have been snubbed from its nomination, but it certainly was not snubbed from a win. Even had it been as successful as IASF, I still can't see it beating 21 which overall was a more cohesive and industry-shaking moment than 4.

 

21 just had that modern-classic vibe about it and a much stronger point of view. It was one story, it was a work about heartbreak. It shouldn't win just for that, but it was also an excellently made album, so good that it propelled 25 into winning when it really shouldn't have. I'm not even really a fan of it and if I've ever listened by choice, then I forgot...but it really was that album of 2011 especially in terms of Grammy standards and even as pro-Beyoncé as I am, I don't think it winning was a snub to 4 at all.

 

 

Both 4 and 21 were passionate projects indeed, the latter is just much more digestible. It's nothing more than a bunch of melodical tunes and yet heartfelt, which is why everyone can relate to. Not very different from the IASF ballads.

 

4 was bolder, riskier, and more innovative altogether. At this point it's the last R&B album to have had cultural impact, and the Grammy for Love On Top was just a little testament of this.

It's not surprising that Beyoncé continues to reference this album here and there, on tour as well as when she's being interviewed.

 

Anyhow, I think you're right. Although 4 is the superior album, it would have never won against the jaggernaut 21.

 

1 hour ago, Cbreezy said:

They do, but I will always scream from the rooftop that 4 is actually her most deserving...musically. And remains one of the most disrespectful and unjust snubs.

 

She set out to and did ultimately craft an all-encompassing body of work that in many ways was right up the Grammys alley. The limited noms was a joke.

 

IMO, fans do a lot of retrofitting and slip into the bad habit of buying the idea that the Grammys are a meritocracy. As if the albums that make the shortlist are "always deserving". It's the same mindset that sees a lot of fans "conveniently" playing down the quality of projects that underperform or projects that represent a tricky time in their fave's trajectory. 

 

Context is everything. The Grammys have taken a few major turns over the decades. In the 80s/90s, it was still overtly an Old (White) Boys Club that prioritized what they saw as "real" music (e.g white bands etc). Hence why many of our idols don't have "that" many Grammys (MJ, Whitney, Janet, Mariah).

 

In the 2010s, some kind of shake-up occurred and they went the route of commercial success with the noms. Some of which are just farcical in hindsight. 

 

Looking at the year 4 was snubbed, are we really buying into the idea that Rihanna's Loud (which was nominated for AOTY) was better than 4...as an ALBUM? Similarly, Bruno Mars (who had big hit SINGLES that era), are we saying that Doo-*** and Hooligans as top-to-bottom ALBUM was better than 4? Bey wasn't even nominated in the R&B categories properly. WTF?

 

It's largely a popularity contest that occasionally pivots to quality when its wig is tugged.

 

IMO, the wildness of the snubs shakes out as:

 

1) 4 - for the reasons laid out above
 

2) Renaissance - insanity, Both in terms of the critical acclaim and the subtext of previous snubs. The definition of cutting one's nose to spite their own face. 

 

3) Self-titled - the visual album was actually a game-changer, there literally was no comparable winner. Though, for different reasons, I put this in the CC/Grammy category. Is the music, holistically, my fave Bey album? No (even though still stellar). More than anything, the broader context and impact (changed the game) meant there really was no other option and yet somehow it went to Beck. 

 

Honorable Mention

 

4) Lemonade - strong album, iconic era, and was the release most aligned with what the Grammys presents itself as (i.e. quality over commercialism and celebrating of releases that move the cultural needle). Another CC situation for me. Not where my favorite Bey music is housed, but all things considered, it deserved the win. Playing Devil's Advocate slightly, Adele's 25 was monstrous and, importantly, was actually good. So, I see where the conundrum may have come for the committee when it comes to Bey vs Adele. BUT...Bey should have been the pick given the previous snubs and just the terrible optics of going any other route (especially Blue Eyed Soul given the social climate. Extremely tone deaf of them).

I agree with most of your takes.

 

I was fine with 25 taking it, again, that was another jaggernaut era by Adele. It was understandable at the end of the day.

The Renaissance loss was disappointing to see though, but then again I guess the Grammy committee could relate more to basic tunes having just a couple of chords than an avant-guarde dance, disco, and house record that tributes ballroom and queer culture.

 

47 minutes ago, Pepo said:

Both 4 and 21 were passionate projects indeed, the latter is just much more digestible. It's nothing more than a bunch of melodical tunes and yet heartfelt, which is why everyone can relate to. Not very different from the IASF ballads.

 

4 was bolder, riskier, and more innovative altogether. At this point it's the last R&B album to have had cultural impact, and the Grammy for Love On Top was just a little testament of this.

It's not surprising that Beyoncé continues to reference this album here and there, on tour as well as when she's being interviewed.

 

Anyhow, I think you're right. Although 4 is the superior album, it would have never won against the jaggernaut 21.

 

I agree with most of your takes.

 

I was fine with 25 taking it, again, that was another jaggernaut era by Adele. It was understandable at the end of the day.

The Renaissance loss was disappointing to see though, but then again I guess the Grammy committee could relate more to basic tunes having just a couple of chords than an avant-guarde dance, disco, and house record that tributes ballroom and queer culture.

 

Im sorry but no. There's is no world where I accept that 25 deserved it over Lemonade. I simply refuse. The ARTISTIC difference and execution is so far apart that there's literally no reason but racism which explains Beyonces loss.

 

To emphasize what I mean:

Adele would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Taylor would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Billie would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Beyonce lost.

 

Beyonce would've lost if 21 was her album.

Beyonce would've lost if 1989 was her album.

Beyonce would've lost if WDWGWWFA was her album.

 

 

THAT is what institutionalized racism looks like if u ever wondered.

So cut the bs why Lemonade lost against 21 v. 2.0.

Even in her base, CC Is disrespected. CC is just as deserving as all her previous work. I understand that she could've done more to promote the era, but they way some of y'all talk about this album as if it's one of her worst is wild. 

18 hours ago, BnPac said:

You démon !! 

What is to be expected from a Lemonade's hater. 

 

Between your and Augmented's posts, I've been laughing my behind off. 

Lmfaoooooo

30 minutes ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

Im sorry but no. There's is no world where I accept that 25 deserved it over Lemonade. I simply refuse. The ARTISTIC difference and execution is so far apart that there's literally no reason but racism which explains Beyonces loss.

 

To emphasize what I mean:

Adele would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Taylor would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Billie would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Beyonce lost.

 

Beyonce would've lost if 21 was her album.

Beyonce would've lost if 1989 was her album.

Beyonce would've lost if WDWGWWFA was her album.

 

 

THAT is what institutionalized racism looks like if u ever wondered.

So cut the bs why Lemonade lost against 21 v. 2.0.

I agree with everything, but Beyoncé would've won with 21 if she had those sales and singles just like Whitney did with The Bodyguard. That's probably the least debatable win of the century.

adult contemporary ballads sang by a fat white lady was gonna sweep. any 2011 album couldn't stand a chance with 21. 

8 hours ago, sillycilla said:

Ok, this is random but….

I could be way off, but I have a feeling Act III might be the one that truly shifts the music game once again and its trajectory. Cowboy Carter reflected the past, including Beyonce's personal experiences and past wounds from the CMA's and so forth. Renaissance embodied the present, filling a void for everyone after the pandemic. So, Act III could represent the future. This idea isn't fully fleshed out yet, but I hope you all understand where I'm going with it. 

 

But RENAISSANCE can only be future. She even says "future renaissance" and has futuristic aesthetics. And in the history, dance music comes after country and rock music 

12 minutes ago, Devin said:

adult contemporary ballads sang by a fat white lady was gonna sweep. any 2011 album couldn't stand a chance with 21. 

and that's honestly fair because 21 was a novelty at the time. There's no denying she deserved that AOTY. 25 was just a rehash, that's why it feels very unjust

16 minutes ago, Devin said:

adult contemporary ballads sang by a fat white lady was gonna sweep. any 2011 album couldn't stand a chance with 21. 

Whew good morning, what a start to my day 

@Devin you are a fool lmfao.

1 hour ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

Im sorry but no. There's is no world where I accept that 25 deserved it over Lemonade. I simply refuse. The ARTISTIC difference and execution is so far apart that there's literally no reason but racism which explains Beyonces loss.

 

To emphasize what I mean:

Adele would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Taylor would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Billie would've won if Lemonade was her project.

Beyonce lost.

 

Beyonce would've lost if 21 was her album.

Beyonce would've lost if 1989 was her album.

Beyonce would've lost if WDWGWWFA was her album.

 

 

THAT is what institutionalized racism looks like if u ever wondered.

So cut the bs why Lemonade lost against 21 v. 2.0.

I'm afraid I disagree. The Grammys don't care about critical acclaim and they're showing it every year.

 

The Grammys are about politics and strategic voting. The project that attracts the most voters, it's the one that will win. Simple as it is. And in this case the appeal of the music matters more than the artistic execution.

 

Last year Midnights won against SZA and Lana ffs  Bruno won with 24K Magic despite being the least acclaimed album in the category, and 1989 had the edge over TPAB. In Taylor's case, she can always rely on the Country voters, which is why I believe she won last year; and not surprisingly, Beyoncé won once she finally had the backing of the Country committe 

 

I also disagree with the rest of your post. Beyoncé would have won had she had her own 21 or 1989, which why, like it or not, IASF was her closest chance at getting AOTY. Single Ladies got SOTY, and if there hadn't occurred the Kanye mess at the VMAs, many wouldn't have felt sympathy for Taylor, which I think it was the factor that eventually translated into her victory. I mean, Fearless was huge, but it wasn't the phenomenon that IASF was.

Edited February 4, 20251 yr by Pepo

21 minutes ago, Pepo said:

I'm afraid I disagree. The Grammys don't care about critical acclaim and they're showing it every year.

 

The Grammys are about politics and strategic voting. The project that attracts the most voters, it's the one that will win. Simple as it is. And in this case the appeal of the music matters more than the artistic execution.

 

Last year Midnights won against SZA and Lana ffs  Bruno won with 24K Magic despite being the least acclaimed album in the category, and 1989 had the edge over TPAB. In Taylor's case, she can always rely on the Country voters, which is why I believe she won last year; and not surprisingly, Beyoncé won once she finally had the backing of the Country committe 

 

I also disagree with the rest of your post. Beyoncé would have won had she had her own 21 or 1989, which why, like it or not, IASF was her closest chance at getting AOTY. Single Ladies got SOTY, and if there hadn't occurred the Kanye mess at the VMAs, many wouldn't have felt sympathy for Taylor, which I think it was the factor that eventually translated into her victory. I mean, Fearless was huge, but it wasn't the phenomenon that IASF was.

I think Fearless being entirely self-written would have still given it the edge over IASF. Any day of the week. But 1989 - the playlist of other artists' recognizable production album - should not have won, that was egregious.
 

And we need to stop celebrating Lana Trump, pleaseeeee 

57 minutes ago, Draper. said:

I agree with everything, but Beyoncé would've won with 21 if she had those sales and singles just like Whitney did with The Bodyguard. That's probably the least debatable win of the century.

21 could be released at literally any time by any body in the last 100 years and smash, it is that timeless.

 

Beyoncé singing Someone Like You?! Rolling in the Deep? The industry would have been in shambles. 

I've been loving all this crying since Sunday!

 

Spotify is behind today

2 hours ago, Pepo said:

Both 4 and 21 were passionate projects indeed, the latter is just much more digestible. It's nothing more than a bunch of melodical tunes and yet heartfelt, which is why everyone can relate to. Not very different from the IASF ballads.

 

4 was bolder, riskier, and more innovative altogether. At this point it's the last R&B album to have had cultural impact, and the Grammy for Love On Top was just a little testament of this.

It's not surprising that Beyoncé continues to reference this album here and there, on tour as well as when she's being interviewed.

 

Anyhow, I think you're right. Although 4 is the superior album, it would have never won against the jaggernaut 21.

 

21 was more digestible but I think we're forgetting that like 4 it was also a major outlier compared to what most popstars were releasing too which made it being "just ballads" more impactful, and more important. And it was, in fact, far better in terms of being an overall set than the IASF ballads which were moreso ballads for ballads' sake. Beyoncé said it was the "real her" but it didn't really serve to offer any true insight into who she was as a woman or her real feelings other than pop ballad clichés.

 

I think 4 did take more risks than 21, but I don't necessarily think it paid off all the time. Going from End of Time to I Was Here to Run the World is not exactly artful to me, especially when the album just wasn't set up in a way for that to make sense at the end. As well I think the presence of Best Thing I Never Had, essentially a too-late-to-be-cool version of Irreplaceable also doesn't help its overall quality.

 

I think most of its songs are great individually, she has some masterpieces on it (Love on Top, Party, I Care, I Miss You, Countdown), but as one full piece of work, it might have been better than some nominees, but it's not exactly AOTY-worthy imo. It was her most artful to date, but there was still a sheen from her Mathew Knowles days that once shed with BEYONCÉ, set her album making apart from the industry AND especially, herself... Lemonade, The Gift, RENAISSANCE, COWBOY CARTER even EVERYTHING IS LOVE all showcase a better understanding of and an ease at album-making as an artform. With 4 it felt more like she recorded a bunch of songs then decided which to put on the album, with those that came next, it at least feels like she went in with a clear vision of what she wanted to say/do from the start and that's why the results are always so unified and clear. And if she didn't, then she did the work to unify them after the fact which is important.

 

 

Edited February 4, 20251 yr by swissman

Spotify artists 

 

#31 (+35) 

 

Just now, Shelter said:

Spotify artists 

 

#31 (+35) 

 

I was just about to post this! She's up 41 spots from Saturday

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 20251 yr by Lose My Breath

7 minutes ago, Lose My Breath said:

Spotify is behind today

So if CC usually did 1.6mio streams, and that figure of "700% increase in streams" was right, we might be looking at around 12mio streams.

That seems excessive, but a cute 4-5 mio would be amazing, which would still be a 200% increase.