1 minute ago, Burn said:

This is true. I remember so many people being certain act ii would be called RODEO  thank god it wasn't

Even though I loved RODEO 

4 minutes ago, mons†er said:

I believe she gave the album title RENAISSANCE a year in advance, we just didn't know it. I could be wrong but yeah. She does always hints at the theme of the album and she forever plans in advance creatively. 

I think remember this....did she mention it in an article/magazine interview or sumn?

7 minutes ago, mariposa said:

I agree it won't be called Betty Black, but she did give the RENAISSANCE title away a whole year before it came out.

true....not that any of us caught the blatant hint 

3 minutes ago, Redporus said:

I think remember this....did she mention it in an article/magazine interview or sumn?

2021 Harper's Bazaar Icon Issue 

Quote

Okay, we've waited long enough to ask…when can we expect new music? 

With all the isolation and injustice over the past year, I think we are all ready to escape, travel, love, and laugh again. I feel a renaissance emerging, and I want to be part of nurturing that escape in any way possible. I've been in the studio for a year and a half. Sometimes it takes a year for me to personally search through thousands of sounds to find just the right kick or snare. One chorus can have up to 200 stacked harmonies. Still, there's nothing like the amount of love, passion, and healing that I feel in the recording studio. After 31 years, it feels just as exciting as it did when I was nine years old. Yes, the music is coming!

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37039502/beyonce-evolution-interview-2021/

Just now, mons†er said:

2021 Harper's Bazaar Icon Issue 

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a37039502/beyonce-evolution-interview-2021/

who says the album name was even chosen?.....she prob took that word after Yvette inserted it in her response and she liked it....

  

@Lose My Breath has a point. she could be teasing without tryna be obvs.

Live album December 1st and then Mufasa bops December 20th. Just like she did with Homecoming on April 17th and Lemonade on streaming on April 23rd. C'mon Bey, give us everything. 

I always wanted a rock alberm but not in the old school style, I'd like to hear modern rock bops in the vein of her 'Sex on fire' rendition. Or something more 'outrageous' like Prince sexy sings with a fresh twist, electronic infusion even.

I don't understand how people can say if Aaliyah was still here that Beyonce wouldn't be as big.

 

As if Beyonce doesn't have the talent to back it up.

 

 

Aaliyah's career would have taken the Ashanti, Ciara, etc. route.

 

Maybe even the Keri Hilson route.

 

Who knows?

people were saying act ii wouldn't be country until THE and 16C were released. they were actually sure it wouldn't be an album at all until that day, and that it was all just a fan theory and there was no teasing  we're entering that era for act iii 

 

however, i don't think she's teasing something coming soon, at least not this year. nothing will come out before Mufasa (but i also thought she wouldn't be releasing anything before Cecred) 

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

I don't understand how people can say if Aaliyah was still here that Beyonce wouldn't be as big.

 

As if Beyonce doesn't have the talent to back it up.

 

 

Aaliyah's career would have taken the Ashanti, Ciara, etc. route.

 

Maybe even the Keri Hilson route.

 

Who knows?

This revisionist thing is so stupid. In one of the "exposing jay" videos i've seen people call Aaliyah the "Rihanna of the 90s"  Yes she had a lot of potential to crossover and develop an international career but before "Try Again" she was pretty much a local hitmaker with an impact on the urban scene.

who said aaliyah is the rihanna of the 90s? 

25 minutes ago, Devin said:

who said aaliyah is the rihanna of the 90s? 

Social media apparently.

Conceptually Lil Nas X belonged on Cowboy Carter. 

2 hours ago, Chris said:

I don't understand how people can say if Aaliyah was still here that Beyonce wouldn't be as big.

 

As if Beyonce doesn't have the talent to back it up.

 

 

Aaliyah's career would have taken the Ashanti, Ciara, etc. route.

 

Maybe even the Keri Hilson route.

 

Who knows?

I love Aaliyah but the hot takes people pump out really supports why I often feel like they need to CHARGE for social media lol. Some people just like to be loud and wrong. And the fact they do it for free and gain traction with it IRKS me to no end lol. 

 

We all have different opinions and I respect that, but anyone who genuinely follows the music business, LIVED the time of the 90s/00s, and understands the R&B landscape qualitatively and commercially, knows that the whole "if Aaliyah was alive then Bey wouldn't be as big" is total BS. 

 

The album era she passed away during actually wasn't selling that well at that point. The singles, while incredible, also weren't smash hits either. 

 

Aaliyah awkwardly had the unique circumstance of being active as an artist since she was a teen, yet always marketed as an older artist throughout. So despite only being 22 when she died, in the consumer's mind she had been out for a long while and hadn't had the benefit of the whole "young act to grown woman" gimmick change that the Britney's, Xtina's and so many others benefitted from.

 

Artists, no matter what folk argue, ARE products and I guess what I'm saying is that Aaliyah had already had a "long" product cycle (in being presented as a cool, slick, edgy act for the entirety of her career). Consumers are conditioned to gag over the "new", "shiny" act on the block, so her withering sales actually tracked with that trajectory (that most artists experience).

 

That's not to say she couldn't have bounced back. Because as much as the "mid-tier R&B girl" path could have been her lane, what she was doing with Timbaland and co at the time of her passing could have seen her thrive in a lane that was entirely hers. A lane that was one foot edgy/critical darling and one foot in the commercial (but not as big as the big-big commercial acts like Bey). Plus her juggling a movie career so heavy at that time was very different to any of her peers. So, IMO, she easily could have had a career trajectory totally different to any act she's compared to. 

 

Aaliyah being used for Bey hate is so irksome and is 9/10 being done by people who didn't even live her peak or just be talking to talk. A big part of Bey's appeal/breakthrough / present relevance is her performance ability, the people drawing on Aaliyah to down Bey probably couldn't name 5 performances of hers that they've seen and definitely couldn't name 1 performance that would blow a Bey showing out of the water. 

 

If anything, like others have said, the real question is whether the girls like Rihanna would exist had Aaliyah been around. Because, in the absence of "an Aaliyah", the quality gap between what Bey was/is serving up and the "next" big R&B girl was/is huge. Realistically, Aaliyah would have given the industry a great alternative while not being a patch on Bey. We live in a world where Rihanna is seen as on-par with Bey or right under when her talent and abilities pale in more ways than I can type. She's considered as such because of the power of her brand and catchiness of her songs (which I'll give her). Aaliyah being around, with the level of talent, beauty, and extracurricular activity she had going on outside of music makes me wonder more about what would be of the Rihanna's, Ciara's (who I like), and similar. But not Bey lol. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 20241 yr by Cbreezy

Thank you so much for that essay @Cbreezy with citations and bibliography.

 

4 hours ago, mons†er said:

I disagree with this statement. The first two acts in themselves have not only changed how Black people listen to music as well as how the world views Black people & our approach to music, but they also have sparked a lot of conversations that weren't being had before. They were definitely needed and the music has done what it was meant to do.

 

I also enjoy how she has shown people your music can have legs (to an extent) and it can do most of the talking without you having to do the stunts and shows the music industry wants you to do. CC may not be as big as RENAISSANCE but it is still being listened to and appreciated w/o a single performance, music video or even a single being sent to radio. I see RENAISSANCE & CC as being the opposites to everything that was before them, especially IASF. 

 

Once again, I would love promotion, videos and interviews but it's clear that the GP would do their usual and try to dismantle and vilify her contributions to music as they have always done. I mean, when was the last time you were this excited or had this much passion for an album nonetheless someone's musical growth? I have never seen so many theories and assumptions about a persons music and what they're going to do next .

When was the last time you were on the edge of your seat waiting for visuals from an artist?

The only conversation that has been going on is the presence of Black artist in Country music, and that conversation has been on life support since what- the 90's. It was a conversation she brought to the forefront and ignited all over the world, but this conversation is not new to ppl of color who frequent them. 

If ppl would take the time to stop thinking as a die hard fan and as a pure music lover, the music was never the problem. 

 

And let's get out of the frame of mind that the only way for her voice to be heard and presence to be felt is dependent on tradition promotion, because it's clouding people's point from being heard. The music will be remembered years from now, but the music from "COWBOY CARTER", specifically, is being hugely ignored by fans and casual listeners because of how it's been received. 
 

"RENAISSANCE" legs firmly stand on the fact she had not released a solo album in nearly a decade. Not to mention, House music was taking shape in the year RENI came out, it was going to be a hit out the gate. Not to mention she played along the lines of teasing visuals for 2 years. The same has not happened for CC. 
 

Though TXH was a #1 hit, the time of that song has came and passed, and we're only six months into the era. She loathe community and she takes too long to keep up the momentum. Ppl are already over this era and are ready to bypass the visuals and tour for the next album, not just myself. 
 

She hasn't been this sloppy since "4", but even today, that album is regarded as one of her best albums and the first time her album was cohesive as a full project, by her and listeners. The same will happen with this trilogy. The next lead single will go #1, the album will go #1, she'll wait too long and throw out another single that will stall and it'll be over in 2-4 months. Continue the fad act for another 2 years. 

LOVE aaliyah but lbr her brand/sound wouldn't have survived passed 2006. 

 

r&b had many rapid transitions to keep up & spawned new artists:

 

1990-1993 new jack swing

- mj, janet, swv, en vogue, boyz ii men, etc.

1994-1996 contemporary r&b

- mariah, tlc, toni braxton, etc. 

1997-1999 urban contemporary

- aaliyah, brandy, mary j blige, usher, r kelly

2000-2003 neo soul/hip hop/carribean

- alicia keys, ashanti, missy, sean, ja rule, nelly, etc.

2004-2007 crunk r&b/carribean

- neyo, rihanna, chris brown, ciara, cassie, 50, etc.

2008-2009 melodic rap

- tpain, keyshia cole, kanye, etc.

2010-2012 ballads/pop r&b

- bruno mars, miguel, adele, john legend, etc. 

2015-2019 alternative r&b/trapsoul

- sza, abel, frank, bryson, kehlani, summer, etc.

Girl the Brazilian hive is a MESS right now! A lot of fake news and viral tiktoks. 

reasons why i believe self titled is THE album that ushered bey into legend status. she was able to break outta the flop & potential throwback image. 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

LOVE aaliyah but lbr her brand/sound wouldn't have survived passed 2006. 

 

r&b had many rapid transitions to keep up & spawned new artists:

 

1990-1993 new jack swing

- mj, janet, swv, en vogue, boyz ii men, etc.

1994-1996 contemporary r&b

- mariah, tlc, toni braxton, etc. 

1997-1999 urban contemporary

- aaliyah, brandy, mary j blige, usher, r kelly

2000-2003 neo soul/hip hop/carribean

- alicia keys, ashanti, missy, sean, ja rule, nelly, etc.

2004-2007 crunk r&b/carribean

- neyo, rihanna, chris brown, ciara, cassie, 50, etc.

2008-2009 melodic rap

- tpain, keyshia cole, kanye, etc.

2010-2012 ballads/pop r&b

- bruno mars, miguel, adele, john legend, etc. 

2015-2019 alternative r&b/trapsoul

- sza, abel, frank, bryson, kehlani, summer, etc.

The Aaliyah/Bey thing is wild to me (for those who play it up), BUT beyond the tragedy of her death, I also mourn the fact that we really will never know what would/could have been (in terms of her own artistry in her own lane).

 

I hear you on her belonging to a particular time, but in fairness to her, she actually was evolving her sound eclectically when she died. We Need a Resolution, Try Again, More Than a Woman, and even Rock The Boat (and that's just the singles) were nothing at all like what Brandy, Monica, and the "top" R&B girls of that time were doing.

 

To her credit, Aaliyah was skewing innovative and somewhat out of the box (while still visually tick-boxing all the necessities of a MPG). In short, it speaks to her willingness to evolve which ironically is the very thing that has held back some of the R&B girls whose commercial success dipped. It's also the central engine of Bey's latter career success. 

 

So, while I don't think Aaliyah being around would have had much/any bearing on Bey's journey, I'm not sure she'd have faded into obscurity musically. All signs point to her being an act willing to take risks, evolve, and receive critical praise for it in the process.

 

Looking at the "eras" of R&B you list that came after, Aaliyah's talent was versatile enough to survive and thrive in pretty much all of them. Musically, speaking. The real challenge, IMO, would be maintaining a broad enough audience and level of celebrity (which requires "playing the game") to be a thing-thing commercially.

Edited September 22, 20241 yr by Cbreezy

2 hours ago, V$. said:

Girl the Brazilian hive is a MESS right now! A lot of fake news and viral tiktoks. 

What are they saying?

5 hours ago, Chris said:

I don't understand how people can say if Aaliyah was still here that Beyonce wouldn't be as big.

 

As if Beyonce doesn't have the talent to back it up.

 

 

Aaliyah's career would have taken the Ashanti, Ciara, etc. route.

 

Maybe even the Keri Hilson route.

 

Who knows?

It's every video I see, they always drag Beyonce into it. It's vile 

 

What's funny is Aaliyah wasn't that big, her name is bigger than her stats. She wasn't global. The UK is an easy market and here is her album peaks. 

 

#23 Age Nothin But A Number 

#33 One In A Million

#5 Aaliyah (After her death) 

 

The fact she had Timbaland production and still wasn't doing great is sad. I love Aaliyah but it's all lies and BS. Aaliyah wouldn't be singing songs like Bey does, she wouldn't be doing CIL or SL  It's a real jealousy thing when it comes to Bey. 

3 hours ago, family.guy123 said:

Conceptually Lil Nas X belonged on Cowboy Carter. 

TBH that Shaboozey verse on "Spaghetti" was his for the taking. (And Shaboozey would've still been on the project via "Sweet + Honey + Buckin") Nas X shouldn't have said those things on Twitter about Blue Ivy on his way up.

Edited September 22, 20241 yr by trainsskyscrapers

i cannot see bey ever collaborating with him lol.