fan base Beyoncé

[giRLbye.]

9 minutes ago, AxelFox said:

I was in college during the 2017 Grammys so it was no biggie but now that I have a job I might need to take Monday off cause I'm gonna be so distracted reading this forum, articles, think pieces and what not that I most definitely won't be able to work properly  

 

thats why i'm so glad i work from home

[cloudbusting]

11 minutes ago, AxelFox said:

I was in college during the 2017 Grammys so it was no biggie but now that I have a job I might need to take Monday off cause I'm gonna be so distracted reading this forum, articles, think pieces and what not that I most definitely won't be able to work properly  

being jobless paying off for once, I can spiral unhindered 

Edited January 30, 2023 by cloudbusting

[satellites.™]

Yall keep blaming the academy as if the voters are not artists and producers, engineers and industry people.

 

AOTY is not just chosen, it is VOTED UPON by people like Taylor, Timbaland, Diane Warren, Terius Nash, etc.

 

The real tea is why THOSE people don't vote for her, cause they dont see her contribution as being heavy.

 

Beck is respected in that way and so was Jon Baptiste, Taylor is also KNOWN for writing her albums.

 

Now the argument could me made in favor of someone like Mariah, but most people hate on Bey in secret.

[ShouldersSideways]

5 minutes ago, satellites.™ said:

Yall keep blaming the academy as if the voters are not artists and producers, engineers and industry people.

 

AOTY is not just chosen, it is VOTED UPON by people like Taylor, Timbaland, Diane Warren, Terius Nash, etc.

 

The real tea is why THOSE people don't vote for her, cause they dont see her contribution as being heavy.

 

Beck is respected in that way and so was Jon Baptiste, Taylor is also KNOWN for writing her albums.

 

Now the argument could me made in favor of someone like Mariah, but most people hate on Bey in secret.

I don't think they see contributions as not enough; everyone knows how meticulous and hard working she is.  I think they see the praise she gets everywhere and think she has enough so they purposefully don't vote for her to keep her from getting more.

[swtamira]

The irritation by some members about the Grammy discussions is very interesting to me. We are music fans, its the biggest night in music, ofcourse we're gonna care. She is also the most nominated artist of the night, and could become the most awarded person ever. Us caring should not be a surprise, especially considering the lack of any Bey content to discuss instead of this. 

 

Having said that, it is insane that THE Beyoncé only has one Grammy in any of the 4 major categories.... it really is her time. If this time she doesn't sweep i doubt she will ever return.

[giRLbye.]

i do think Beyonce has a lot of haters in the industry who resent her success & longevity and think it should go to other singers. There's more Kelis and Keri Hilson types out there...everybody just won't be public to avoid backlash. 

[XXX.]

11 minutes ago, satellites.™ said:

Yall keep blaming the academy as if the voters are not artists and producers, engineers and industry people.

 

AOTY is not just chosen, it is VOTED UPON by people like Taylor, Timbaland, Diane Warren, Terius Nash, etc.

 

The real tea is why THOSE people don't vote for her, cause they dont see her contribution as being heavy.

 

Beck is respected in that way and so was Jon Baptiste, Taylor is also KNOWN for writing her albums.

 

Now the argument could me made in favor of someone like Mariah, but most people hate on Bey in secret.

Not necessarily. 
 

This is a quote from a Grammy voter in a recent article.

 

Quote

 

“I’m sorry, but I’m not a rap fan,” said veteran saxophonist, composer and arranger Tom Scott, 74, who has 13 Grammy nominations and two wins to his credit.

“I’d love for them to come up with their own style of music, rather than sampling. I know I’m sounding really old-fashioned, like an old fart.”

 

 

At surface level, you could say this is just ignorant, because not only does a huge percentage of rap contain original and live music, it’s a damn lie!  
 

But beneath the surface, this particular comment (rap or not) is teetering the line of a micro aggression and shows the Grammys have a race problem.  You don’t go 24 years without a Black woman winning AOTY, otherwise.

 

Sure, you can talk about instrumentation, songwriting and whatever convenient goal post they move in any particular year, but ultimately, Black pop-stars and rappers are just not respected by many Grammy voters.
 

And that comment, for me, sums up perfectly why we always end up with the results we do.

Edited January 30, 2023 by XXX.

[satellites.™]

Exactly, now on what planet is Kelis, Diane Warren, Jermaine Dupri, etc voting for Bey?

 

She has the people who hate her, the ones who hate Jay, the racists, the woman haters, the (you dont write) crowd, the (shes overhyped) crowd, and etc. After that Kanye stunt at the VMAS, IASF never stood a chance.

 

The numbers will never add up and I dont see how yall dont get that.

 

Also, the more albums in the noms, the less Bey's chances are, because of a super split.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by satellites.™

[Cbreezy]

40 minutes ago, XXX. said:

 I love reading your posts, and I want your take on something.  Sorry if it’s already been discussed.

 

Ben Winston and Trevor Noah are already talking to the media about the possibility of Beyoncé becoming the most awarded Grammy winner ever and what a historic moment that would be.

 

Do you find that a backhanded way of giving her a *moment* without giving her THE moment?  I have such a complicated feeling around them stopping the show to honor her while only giving her “genre awards”.  It’s an honor, no doubt, but it also feels like playing in her face.

 

I imagine that’s why she was ambitious and submitted Renaissance and Break My Soul in Dance (especially the album).  Renaissance would have been an easy win in Progressive R&B this year.  No competition.  In my mind, she at least wanted to walk away feeling as though she accomplished/achieved something new instead of another R&B trophy, if nothing in the General field.

 

Aw, that kind of makes me sad if that’s the case.  They’ve played with her so long. 

Thank you :-)

 

I'm with you on the complexity of the "most awarded" thing.

 

I think, at the bare minimum, that is happening. Especially if she shows up. But, like you said, it's such a slap in the face and actually doesn't make sense for her to win genre-awards yet never the big ones. It'll goop the girls, give her an angle of success from a headline perspective, but is so problematic that it won't be anything any switched-on fan really ought to applaud.

 

It's still the same racially-coded message that "you're good enough to win in your lane, but you can't light a candle to Adele, Taylor, Billie, Kacey and the girls". Ironically all girls that bow at Bey's feet. 

 

Beyond being insulting to Bey, it sends a very problematic message about R&B. Essentially, "you can have categories on our show, but the best of your lane can't compete against the best of others." Put simply, it's pegging R&B as second-rate. 

 

One would think the years of the Grammys wilfully doing ish that makes them look crazy years on were over. If even just for branding and optics. But Bey being "most awarded" while having next to nothing in the general fields will be up there with Diana Ross having NO competitive Grammy, and the likes of Whitney and Mariah having totals that don't match the enormity of the success or cultural impact. 

The fact these kind of oddity facts are consistently attached to Black acts should be a huge concern to all. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Cbreezy

[Planet Mars]

7 minutes ago, giRLbye. said:

i do think Beyonce has a lot of haters in the industry who resent her success & longevity and think it should go to other singers. There's more Kelis and Keri Hilson types out there...everybody just won't be public to avoid backlash. 

They will NEVER admit this 

 

But I say the same thing about the media. The way they JUMPED at the chance to write about the RENAISSANCE leak. The obsession with the Hive and painting them as vile and abrasive (despite that being the case with many other bases). Even the occasional journalist who's mask slips and spew hatred towards Blue Ivy and then releases a half-assed apology when they're caught.

 

I've also long suspected that many of then are aware that many Beyoncé haters despise her hype so they turn it up x1000 after everything she does. It's so blatant some times.

 

Beyoncé has ALOT of people bothered and it's clear as day.

[AxelFox]

1 minute ago, XXX. said:

Not necessarily. 
 

This is a quote from a Agra my voter in a recent article.

 

 

 

 

At surface level, you could say this is just ignorant, because not only does a huge percentage of rap contain original and live music, it’s a damn lie!  
 

But beneath the surface, this particular comment (rap or not) is teetering the line of a micro aggression and shows the Grammys have a race problem.  You don’t go 24 years without a Black woman winning AOTY, otherwise.

 

Sure, you can talk about instrumentation, songwriting and whatever convenient goal post they move in any particular year, but ultimately, Black pop-stars and rappers are just not respected by many Grammy voters.
 

And that comment, for me, sums up perfectly why we always end up with the results we do.

I don't disagree with your points, but the takeaway from that post is that this is not much of a Grammy academy problem as it is an industry problem at large.

 

And the truth is that there are a lot of white, old, males with narrow minded and racist views on music like the one you just quoted.

 

B not attending/ignoring them will not magically solve the injustice in the industry. And it's not necessarily a 'paid them dust' move, as there are thousands that vote and support her as well. Quite contrarily, I think that her continuing to submit, attend and perform even if she loses in the big 4 plays a huge role in creating conversation and ensuring the new generations of artists, producers and songwriters do not preserve the same outdated views so that it won't be considered a miracle for a black woman to win AOTY in the future. 

[satellites.™]

Album of the Year

ABBA - Voyage

Adele - 30 

 

Beyoncé - Renaissance

 

(everything below has votes Bey/Adele needs, she is splitting with Lizzo, Mary, and Kendrick, and fighting Harry for the youth vote)

 

Bad Bunny - Un Verano Sin Ti (Latino vote, trend jumpers, young members, Spanish speakers)

Brandi Carlile - In These Silent Days (white people, country voters, MAGA crowd)

Coldplay - Music of the Spheres (rock fans, general fans)

Harry Styles - Harry’s House (current voters, trend jumpers, young members)

Kendrick Lamar - Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers (rap voters)

Lizzo - Special (women, LGBTQIA, fatties)

Mary J. Blige - Good Morning Gorgeous (Deluxe) (R&B fans, longtime listeners)

[Cbreezy]

21 minutes ago, satellites.™ said:

Yall keep blaming the academy as if the voters are not artists and producers, engineers and industry people.

 

AOTY is not just chosen, it is VOTED UPON by people like Taylor, Timbaland, Diane Warren, Terius Nash, etc.

 

The real tea is why THOSE people don't vote for her, cause they dont see her contribution as being heavy.

 

Beck is respected in that way and so was Jon Baptiste, Taylor is also KNOWN for writing her albums.

 

Now the argument could me made in favor of someone like Mariah, but most people hate on Bey in secret.

Others have covered my take in their responses, but let's also not forget the secret elite committee...within the voting pool. 

 

They claim to have eradicated them, but only over the last two years. Like there are literal articles fessing up to their existence. 

 

Best as I recall, there were secret committees that literally had the power to "amend" the outcome of the total vote in certain categories. IIRC it was the main four categories.  

 

That's not to say the legit vote wasn't still marred by racism, sexism, etc, but there's a chance that there have been years the likes of Bey may actually have stood a chance of winning fair and square. But if such a win didn't align with whatever the agenda or "expertise" of the ruling committee was, then it could have been overriden. 

[king_queen]

Watch Mary get it  

[cloudbusting]

6 minutes ago, satellites.™ said:

Brandi Carlile - In These Silent Days (white people, country voters, MAGA crowd)

the MAGA crowd is not voting for an album by an outspokenly liberal lesbian with a wife 

[XXX.]

31 minutes ago, Cbreezy said:

Thank you :-)

 

I'm with you on the complexity of the "most awarded" thing.

 

I think, at the bare minimum, that is happening. Especially if she shows up. But, like you said, it's such a slap in the face and actually doesn't make sense for her to win genre-awards yet never the big ones. It'll goop the girls, give her an angle of success from a headline perspective, but is so problematic that it won't be anything any switched-on fan really ought to applaud.

 

It's still the same racially-coded message that "you're good enough to win in your lane, but you can't light a candle to Adele, Taylor, Billie, Kacey and the girls". Ironically all girls that bow at Bey's feet. 

 

Beyond being insulting to Bey, it sends a very problematic message about R&B. Essentially, "you can have categories on our show, but the best of your lane can't compete against the best of others." Put simply, it's pegging R&B as second-rate. 

 

One would think the years of the Grammys wilfully doing ish that makes them look crazy years on were over. If even just for branding and optics. But Bey being "most awarded" while having next to nothing in the general fields will be up there with Diana Ross having NO competitive Grammy, and the likes of Whitney and Mariah having totals that don't match the enormity of the success or cultural impact. 

The fact these kind of oddity facts are consistently attached to Black acts should be a huge concern to all. 

I agree 100%!  You put into words exactly how I’ve felt about the Grammys over the last several years.  You hit it on the head exactly with the racially coded vibe of telling Beyoncé she’s great, but not great enough to sit amongst her white Pop peers that have swept the General field multiple times, won ROTY/SOTY ceremonies in a row and won AOTY 2-3x.  It’s insulting and flat out racist.

 

In 2021, when they stopped the show to tell her she broke the record, I felt second hand embarrassment for some reason.  Maybe because, like you said, I’m a switched-on fan, and the moment just felt like a direct response to the backlash of 25 beating Lemonade.  Like, “Seeee!  We love Beyoncé!  We don’t have a race problem!  She has more Grammys than everyone!!!!!”  I ended that ceremony with a really strange feeling that I can’t put into words.  Sure, Savage and Black Parade weren’t the runaway front runners in General that year, but it still just left me with an ugly taste in my mouth.  It felt rather transparent, I guess.

 

I really hope that she wins this year, obviously, but I’ve made peace with the fact that it doesn’t change anything for her moving forward.  It doesn’t hurt her other than the haters dying to laugh at the “4x AOTY loser”, but like you’ve been saying, it just confirms more about the Grammys.  
 

But after this ceremony, it’ll speak louder than ever on where they stand with Beyoncé.

Edited January 30, 2023 by XXX.

[Pepo]

Not fatties 

[Kassi]

13 minutes ago, satellites.™ said:

Album of the Year

ABBA - Voyage

Adele - 30 

 

Beyoncé - Renaissance

 

(everything below has votes Bey/Adele needs, she is splitting with Lizzo, Mary, and Kendrick, and fighting Harry for the youth vote)

 

Bad Bunny - Un Verano Sin Ti (Latino vote, trend jumpers, young members, Spanish speakers)

Brandi Carlile - In These Silent Days (white people, country voters, MAGA crowd)

Coldplay - Music of the Spheres (rock fans, general fans)

Harry Styles - Harry’s House (current voters, trend jumpers, young members)

Kendrick Lamar - Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers (rap voters)

Lizzo - Special (women, LGBTQIA, fatties)

Mary J. Blige - Good Morning Gorgeous (Deluxe) (R&B fans, longtime listeners)

This breakdown sent me 

[Cbreezy]

2 minutes ago, king_queen said:

Watch Mary get it  

Imagine :-/

 

It's not even totally far fetched given that random af Jon Baptise win.

 

Mary winning is THEE worst case scenario for those dragging the Grammys on Bey's accord, because on the surface it will automatically-cancel out any arguments about Black artists (specifically Black females) not getting their due, will be spun as a "long overdue" and almost send the insulting message to Bey of "keep trying and one day you could win like Mary J".

 

Rather than incite any deep and necessary discourse about the wrongs done against Black artists, a Mary win demotes the discourse to whether y'all "prefer" her Adult Contemporary leaning R&B or what Bey does. Almost certain it'll also bring out the R&B traditionalists who love to rag on Bey. I love the artists I'm about to mention, but essentially the Brandy, Jazmine Sullivan, Alicia Keys stans. 

 

It will be A1 trolling on the Grammys part because it essentially prevents mass outcry even though the critique about their very suspect history and present with Black acts is valid. 

[*-ChriZ-*]

16 minutes ago, satellites.™ said:

Album of the Year

ABBA - Voyage

Adele - 30 

 

Beyoncé - Renaissance

 

(everything below has votes Bey/Adele needs, she is splitting with Lizzo, Mary, and Kendrick, and fighting Harry for the youth vote)

 

Bad Bunny - Un Verano Sin Ti (Latino vote, trend jumpers, young members, Spanish speakers)

Brandi Carlile - In These Silent Days (white people, country voters, MAGA crowd)

Coldplay - Music of the Spheres (rock fans, general fans)

Harry Styles - Harry’s House (current voters, trend jumpers, young members)

Kendrick Lamar - Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers (rap voters)

Lizzo - Special (women, LGBTQIA, fatties)

Mary J. Blige - Good Morning Gorgeous (Deluxe) (R&B fans, longtime listeners)

Not fatties for Lizzo

[Kassi]

Ok, moving the convo forward a little bit — since I think we can all agree her chances of winning are dubious — should whomever takes it keep Bey out of their speech?

 

The last two times have been kind of cringe (Adele’s was kind of sweet, but still “the way you make my black friends feel”… ). I would prefer they take their moment and award and exclude Bey from the narrative. Somehow she always ends up the one dragged and then that awful “RTW” lyrics image gets passed around… irrespective of the fact that 4 was never nominated for anything. 
 

TW: stan violence

 

 

 

[Draper.]

Why would LGBTQ vote for Lizzo when Renaissance would make Honey Dijon the first trans winner of AOTY, besides several other LGBTQ contributors (Syd, Big Freedia, etc)? 

[Kassi]

7 minutes ago, Draper. said:

Why would LGBTQ vote for Lizzo when Renaissance would make Honey Dijon the first trans winner of AOTY, besides several other LGBTQ contributors (Syd, Big Freedia, etc)? 

Yt gays riling themselves up over Bey performing in Dubai, I fear

 

 

(kidding of course, Grammy voting closed Jan 4).

[XXX.]

11 minutes ago, AxelFox said:

I don't disagree with your points, but the takeaway from that post is that this is not much of a Grammy academy problem as it is an industry problem at large.

 

And the truth is that there are a lot of white, old, males with narrow minded and racist views on music like the one you just quoted.

 

B not attending/ignoring them will not magically solve the injustice in the industry. And it's not necessarily a 'paid them dust' move, as there are thousands that vote and support her as well. Quite contrarily, I think that her continuing to submit, attend and perform even if she loses in the big 4 plays a huge role in creating conversation and ensuring the new generations of artists, producers and songwriters do not preserve the same outdated views so that it won't be considered a miracle for a black woman to win AOTY in the future. 

I agree, although I feel we’re give or take saying the same thing.  I do acknowledge it’s nearly impossible to vet if voters are closet racists or would never vote for Black pop stars and rappers. 

Your last paragraph is what I respect about her the most.  And she takes it all in stride.  But at the same time, it’s not lost on me she’s not really in a full stop disrespect situation to publicly call out the Grammys or stop attending.  She’s continuously most nominated (already twice this decade) and is on the verge of having the most wins of all-time.  It’s a unique position and honor to have almost 30 trophies, but it gets weird when you remember she’s continuously snubbed for the top awards. 
 

 

 

[SashaDevachelli]

There are 3 genders: Women, LGBTQIA, and fatties