17 minutes ago, simon said:

Beyoncé only cares about her art so she just releases and let’s the public consume.

Was with you until this. I staunchly disagree.

 

I love Bey and passionately follow her moves. 

 

I really DO NOT buy that she doesn't care about commercial success. AT ALL. 

 

I think the handling of Lemonade and especially the side projects, as well as her confusing antics has distorted reality of some stans. 

 

IMO, Bey has definitely grown beyond the rat race of her value being measured by chart performance alone. BUT the whole "art not charts" is a carefully stage-managed illusion. Particularly when it comes to her solo career. 

 

Beyonce's core success markers are: #1 charting album, big opening sales, at least one "hit" that is the vehicle for the album, and a huge tour. 

 

She's delivered on this with every era, including Renaissance. 

 

But she/they still had to "work" for it. Art not charts would have been dropping Ren as a digital only surprise release and sitting silent as she is now. Instead, we saw her break from tradition, announce way ahead of time, do pre-orders, boxes, merch, remixes, and more. They not only wanted big numbers, they needed it to sustain the "Queen Bey'...thing. 

 

I believe with everything in me that had she sold 100k (or less) and scored no hit with BMS, the "promo" would look very different to this "chilled yet winning" schtick we're getting now. 

 

I'm just as annoyed by her current antics, but she's essentially doing what she's doing now because the album's ongoing success is affording her the ability to.

 

I'll believe art not charts when she genuinely throws out a solo album just because, it underperforms, and doesn't do anything. Until then...nah.

1 hour ago, Cbreezy said:

There's space for all the girls to win...kumbaya...etc. But IDGAF, it will always annoy me to see the girls do ish Bey did/ought to do...but in much tidier and effective ways. 

 

They saying Rihanna has two tracks on the Black Panther soundtrack. Not sure whether it's her "singles-singles" or just music ahead of her proper return at the Super Bowl. Whatever the case, it's clear she and her team are coming full throttle. The music will be Oscar eligible too.

 

All the girls can win. Yes. But the reality of the matter is that all acts (regardless of gender) are competing for the attention of the consumer, news feeds, and the culture at large. It's about to be all eyes on Rih...which is great (I'm a fan) but also annoying given that Bey has had the entire summer to herself and yet has done/dropped...nothing. 

 

I don't doubt Bey's ability to hang with the girls (she has for over two decades), but why compete for attention when you can shine bright without distraction?

 

 

You'd be surprised how many of them feel like Bey sabotaged Anti. There is only been a fake truce due to the their faves intensive media campaign as a billionaire diplomat while Bey is seen as a washed up housewife who had Jay cheat on her. Perception has flipped for both. 

 

Some of them are already stating that Beyonce is holding her visuals and albums hostage so she can take the attention off their fave next year. If that is all it takes, Beyonce will be fine. 

 

I don't plan to do the 2012-2016 Hive vs Navy stan stuff. But it hasn't completely died down. It'll be another generation arguing.

52 minutes ago, Starshine said:

I don't really like the "impact" argument when it definitely can be measured when statistics exist. Bey's Formation performance is iconic, but it doesn't even match her actual half time performance. Stan goggles off, I think Gaga, Shakira/JLo did terrific. Now Bey is one of the most culturally and prolific artists to ever grace the music industry, but I think we reach a little sometimes.   Formation is a fan favorite and will be mentioned within the Hive, but it's receiving piss poor streams given the sabotage and the MV initially being delisted for a year makes it hard for it to be remembered down the line when it didn't even reach it's max potential: no radio, no streaming exposure, MV not accessible. The release of This is America is what Formation was supposed to be had it not been treated poorly. Break My Soul and Cuff It being smashes, has a far greater chance with the GP and being mentioned if they were asked to name her songs if we're being completely honest.  

 

Beyonce's brand is Beyonce - and is not based on a singular moment or song like "This Is America." 

 

Beyonce's brand is not based on smashes. "Cuff It" & "Break My Soul" has not added to Beyonce's brand more than "Lemonade" or "Beyonce" - except for building her daily streams and introducing her to new fans. But - in the bigger picture, her legacy is bigger than that.

 

You have a point about "impact" not being measured - but it is obvious that Beyonce, herself, is limiting her commercial success - and maybe for good measure. It has to be exhausting to fight to be on top - and you don't know what that does to the psyche (think Michael Jackson, Whitney, Britney Spears) - stars who made it to the top but what at cost?  I know I might be deflecting with this point - but all of this goes back to the grand scheme of Beyonce's purpose as an artist.

 

I also think Beyonce is playing the long game by letting her art speak - and not pushing commercially - and we will not see the impact of that for decades to come. She honestly may still be the last of her peers standing - still releasing quality work - and competing against people who are Rumi & Sir's age. 

11 minutes ago, Devin said:

Even tho they are nothing alike. Bey and Rih always been grouped together; mainly cause they the 2 brown girls to reach that high level of fame/success during their time.

Since we're being honest nowadays can we stop with this lie too. They're very similar.

 

Beyoncé cares about success. Its quite obvs after BMS went #1 lol. 

The part some of y’all refuse to accept is shes not interested in going toe-to-toe with kids to stay at the top (i.e. what Taylor does) when she has moved past that chapter in her career. 
 

Outside Taylor … the other girls with 10+ years in Bey, Rih, Gaga, Katy, Nicki, Shakira, etc. can still get hits and appreciate the success but they aren’t fighting to make splashes like they did in their earlier days.

Just now, Devin said:

Beyoncé cares about success. Its quite obvs after BMS went #1 lol. 

The part some of y’all refuse to accept is shes not interested in going toe-to-toe with kids to stay at the top (i.e. what Taylor does) when she has moved past that chapter in her career. 

I think this is a good way to put this. 

35 minutes ago, Keith said:

Since we're being honest nowadays can we stop with this lie too. They're very similar.

 

They really aren't. I really don't see it.They only got compared because B was getting compared to every black singer and hers stuck because her team planted those Jay-Z cheating rumors to ciment her and it worked big time. 

 

Until recently they didn't even make the same type of music. 

One is a vocalist, the other isn't. 

Beyoncé is known for her performances, the other isn't. 

One was a pure pop artist, the other isn't. 

One is known for hair reinvention, the other has rocked long blonde almost her whole career. They share almost nothing in common. 

 

They are both black women tied to Jay. That's where it ends. 

Beyoncé had TLC then Ashanti then Alicia then her and if she survives another decade or two it will be another black singer. I have already seen some people pitting her against Doja or Chloé and even Normani.

Edited October 17, 20223 yr by BnPac

Beyonce doesn't care that much about success in this time of her life. i feel like yall keep saying that to feed whatever hope you have that she'll get back in the game. lets be real.

 

if she cared soooo much about success...this era would run completely different than it is right now. you can't believe that & then explain why she's been ghost since the start of this era. it doesn't line up.

Are we really saying Nicki/Gaga etc doesn’t try to go toe to toe with the kids?   
 

Also didn’t Beyoncé start a TikTok? Who are they trying to reach with that? Lol. Stop pretending she doesn’t care, the truth is she’s trying to not look deliberate about it. Real “it’s only about the music” artists want it to reach the masses no matter what, no games, no shopping around for deals. They simply just release. 

54 minutes ago, simon said:

 

Beyonce's brand is Beyonce - and is not based on a singular moment or song like "This Is America." 

 

This is true, there's no denying that. Beyonce as a respected figure and just the culmination of her brand, career, etc. is something that comes once in a generation. Akin to Michael, Whitney, and Madonna where their cultural significance is based on being the GOATs.

54 minutes ago, Keith said:

Since we're being honest nowadays can we stop with this lie too. They're very similar.

 

Similar in terms of them both making a huge impact in pop culture + being women of color to maintain massive success breaking into a white/pop demographic — then I agree.

 

Outside that they’re very different. Esp after the EDM trend died (2009-2013) thats when they really shown they aren’t alike. 

Anyway I think we can dispel the rumor that act II is coming before Xmas. I mean, she hasn’t done anything with act I yet so clearly Renaissance will get to live a bit longer and that pleases me. 

20 minutes ago, sillycilla said:

Also didn’t Beyoncé start a TikTok? Who are they trying to reach with that? Lol. Stop pretending she doesn’t care, the truth is she’s trying to not look deliberate about it. Real “it’s only about the music” artists want it to reach the masses no matter what, no games, no shopping around for deals. They simply just release. 

the art gotta pay for itself lol  jk but not really

6 minutes ago, sillycilla said:

Are we really saying Nicki/Gaga etc doesn’t try to go toe to toe with the kids?   

If you’re referring to their recent hits, no I don’t see that competing.

 

Those are artists with established fanbases. If what they put out is likeable to the GP and their niche audience ofc it will be a hit. When Gaga flops she rides that wave til shes over it and when Nicki flops she collabs with newcomers to get them hits (like Drake does). 
 

— My definition of going “toe-to-toe with kids” is putting out music consistently for the purpose of getting a hit, always wanna be #1, and blocking new artists from getting their shine. Thats what Taylor and Drake does not the other names.

Taylor and Rihanna is about to drop and the girls are already getting antsy. It’s going to be a long year. 

48 minutes ago, sillycilla said:

Are we really saying Nicki/Gaga etc doesn’t try to go toe to toe with the kids?   
 

Also didn’t Beyoncé start a TikTok? Who are they trying to reach with that? Lol. Stop pretending she doesn’t care, the truth is she’s trying to not look deliberate about it. Real “it’s only about the music” artists want it to reach the masses no matter what, no games, no shopping around for deals. They simply just release. 

She pretty much did just release the music everywhere this time though. And the videos being delayed or shopped around is something y’all said, not Beyoncé or anyone from her team  like we can speculate and stuff but I feel like sometimes you guys start to believe your theories as fact 

1 hour ago, Keith said:

Since we're being honest nowadays can we stop with this lie too. They're very similar.

 

No their ******* not.   Let’s not confuse honesty for delusion. I like Rihanna but she does not have the talent that Beyoncé has. They might make the same genre of music but they both have very different and distinctive styles.

 

One of the worst takes I’ve read on this base. 

1 hour ago, giRLbye. said:

Beyonce doesn't care that much about success in this time of her life. i feel like yall keep saying that to feed whatever hope you have that she'll get back in the game. lets be real.

 

if she cared soooo much about success...this era would run completely different than it is right now. you can't believe that & then explain why she's been ghost since the start of this era. it doesn't line up.

I'm just not going for this. 

 

Bey is all about her COINS. 

 

Her caring about sales is a very easy to see when looking at it like this:

 

The widespread consumption (sales) of her music is the vehicle that gets her to where she gets her real $$$$$...touring, streaming deals, fashion partnerships etc. Sure, her name has a certain level of built-in clout, but these corporations she keeps teaming with absolutely care about her commercial viability, so she for sure will too. Being successful and "causing conversation" in the culture are vital ingredients to her sustainability as a MPG and her wider income flow.

 

It's also what her claims to being "Queen Bey" rests on. You're not Queen with 50k first week and a flop single. You are however 330k first week, a #1 two decades into career, and an album shaking up the scene four months after release. A #1 her team pushed for.

 

This lack of visuals really is distorting the reality of the matter. Y'all haven't seen "art not charts" from a huge star til you've seen a Prince roll-out (or lack-there of). 

 

Edit: We also KNOW she isn't sitting at doing nothing in her PJs. Huge shoots have taken place and while we are all frustrated about the lack of info, we can't pretend she's doing nothing when she's likely in an editing bay right now. I can't run with this lazy or idle Bey narrative some are peddling when it's factually not true. Even with the current Ren situation.

Edited October 17, 20223 yr by Cbreezy

300 versions of BMS was released and you think she don't care about commercial success  

14 minutes ago, suneclipse121 said:

No their ******* not.   Let’s not confuse honesty for delusion. I like Rihanna but she does not have the talent that Beyoncé has. They might make the same genre of music but they both have very different and distinctive styles.

 

One of the worst takes I’ve read on this base. 

Two black beautiful female pop singers who make similar music. Sure one is more musically gifted than the other but no one pays attention to that outside of stan world.

3 minutes ago, Keith said:

300 versions of BMS was released and you think she don't care about commercial success  

Right!

 

Several things can be true at once. A simple but true fact that seems lost on so many here. 

 

* Bey is trying TF out of us atm

* Parkwood/Columbia are working for these sales and hits

* A visual something is coming...who knows when

* Whatever is coming won't have materialized from thin air, so is almost certainly being worked on NOW (whether late or not).

 

11 minutes ago, Keith said:

Two black beautiful female pop singers who make similar music. Sure one is more musically gifted than the other but no one pays attention to that outside of stan world.

I’m definitely going to disagree on that and it’s reflective of their touring numbers. I was talking to a group of friends, they’re not plugged in to the stan world at all. They’re more on the mature side and they all agreed that they would see Beyoncé live more so than Rihanna simply because of the former’s performance and musical prowess. 

1 hour ago, BnPac said:

Anyway I think we can dispel the rumor that act II is coming before Xmas. I mean, she hasn’t done anything with act I yet so clearly Renaissance will get to live a bit longer and that pleases me. 

I agree. 

 

BUT, at the same time, I don't think it's totally out of the realm of possibility that the "visual" is some sort of combined project incorporating various Acts.

 

Assuming Acts 2 and 3 are actually albums, no one will wait / care as long as we have for the Ren visuals. Doing the same with Acts 2 and 3 is a surefire way to lose public interest. At the same time, dropping Acts 2 and 3 with visuals makes NOT doing the same with Rennie (to let the music stick) not make any sense. 

 

I just want all her ish out so we can really dissect this weird little window of confusion in the context of "what came after". Will it all be worth it? Will we be gagged into silence and apologies for doubting her? Or will it be we be underwhelmed and it confirm the chip in her armor of "perfection"?

Edited October 17, 20223 yr by Cbreezy

I have a feeling that when she does drop the visuals, alot of people outside of fans would've already moved on. But they're definitely working for the long run.

Bey cares about success, she needs to be successful or she and her team can’t eat, but y’all have kinda made up what was gonna happen with the era and ran with it and got mad when it didn’t happen like every week y’all melting down in here. As if the past 10 (!) years of her never doing what’s expected hasn’t taught y’all anything. Whatever we get is always better than what we expected with her anyway so I have no doubts she’ll deliver… whenever that is lmao