Like there's a reason why every 2nd gen stan you see around still in English speaking spaces is either a sone or a bitter ex-sone. They weren't just on top of the culture, they pioneered it.

 

The term Hallyu wave literally did not include western countries and specifically used to refer to Japan and SEA before SNSD.

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

Why is there a new SNSD argument every other week 

anyway, I did know about kpop as early as 2005 as I was still in asia at the time, but this moment after a few years made me intrigued about SNSD a bit ngl: 

 

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Witnessed ET

7 minutes ago, Witnessed ET said:

Why is there a new SNSD argument every other week 

Because 3rd gen and later fans were misled through media play and social media algorithm manipulation into believing that their favs invented kpop, those fans entire view of the hallyu wave is predicted on a lie. ATRL skews older than other pop stan spaces so these fans crash out when confronted with living evidence that the 2nd Hallyu wave didnt start at Gangnam Style, pause for 6 years, then resume when D4 released.

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

33 minutes ago, Ubermensch said:

Because 3rd gen and later fans were misled through media play and social media algorithm manipulation into believing that their favs invented kpop, those fans entire view of the hallyu wave is predicted on a lie. ATRL skews older than other pop stan spaces so these fans crash out when confronted with living evidence that the 2nd Hallyu wave didnt start at Gangnam Style, pause for 6 years, then resume when D4 released.

And that's the tea. Absolute hideous Z-listers like BTS had their careers paid for by Hitman Bang's cousin's company. BlackPink's career was paid for by 2NE1's success. The only girls who can say they had organic success like EXO, TWICE and Red Velvet have already seen their careers get eaten alive by 4th gen icons like IVE, Aespa and NewJeans. But ATRL is so full of weebs with nostalgia for third gen that we have to humor them constantly.

6 hours ago, smates said:

You are still there. 

And you're still a D-list poster invested in some D-list frauds. Imagine being a BTS fan and thinking your opinion matters.  

50 minutes ago, Ubermensch said:

Because 3rd gen and later fans were misled through media play and social media algorithm manipulation into believing that their favs invented kpop, those fans entire view of the hallyu wave is predicted on a lie. ATRL skews older than other pop stan spaces so these fans crash out when confronted with living evidence that the 2nd Hallyu wave didnt start at Gangnam Style, pause for 6 years, then resume when D4 released.

I know 2nd gen paved the way…and if the newer stans don't wanna be educated then that's on them. But I've seen this same argument in here like clockwork, and I'm tired chile. 

4 minutes ago, Witnessed ET said:

I know 2nd gen paved the way…and if the newer stans don't wanna be educated then that's on them. But I've seen this same argument in here like clockwork, and I'm tired chile. 

We're all tired. Complain about the children trying to mansplain to us three times a month that kpop didn't exist until BTS, not the people trying to keep the record straight.

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

I miss when twice/bp/rv ruled the world, kind of still sad about wendy and yeri. That era is just my favorite 

 

for current gen's i miss new jeans, but aespa and ive are fun.

 

New Jeans, yeri, Wendy, how do i heal  

2 hours ago, Ubermensch said:

We're all tired. Complain about the children trying to mansplain to us three times a month that kpop didn't exist until BTS, not the people trying to keep the record straight.

I'm complaining about the WHOLE thing, not taking any sides. 
 

it's so boring to hear the same arguments every time you enter this thread, like what happened to just enjoying the music. 

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Witnessed ET

This suddenly hits today

 

 

 

 

what the actual **** 

 

i never imagined it would go that far when i first talked about the issue. there actually is posts online with a huge amount of views but pannchoa is reaching a new low translating a random conspiracy blog  this ***** can't be serious

2 hours ago, Ubermensch said:

We're all tired. Complain about the children trying to mansplain to us three times a month that kpop didn't exist until BTS, not the people trying to keep the record straight.

 

 

mind you this was before BTS and blackpink even debuted  on an evening show that had MILLIONS of viewers each nights and the crowd was as loud as when gaga, katy etc performed... but sure... SNSD had no presence at all outside of asia 

 

to this day, SNSD, who had absolutely NO presence outside of asia, is still the only kpop group in history that served c unt at the madison square garden... more than a decade ago... 

 

I dont know why we even really need to try to delusionally pretend SNSD was successful in areas where they weren't, it is objectively the case that all 2nd generation groups including SNSD have been surpassed in raw success, due to the overall growth of the genre and market around the world. Why does it matter? We know SNSD were great, we know they had something that hasn't been replicated. Just be happy with that instead of pushing narratives that are motivated by insecurity.

 

Yes, 2nd generation - led by SNSD - paved the way for that growth. But that's all they did. Even in just local Asian success SNSD has been surpassed by both Twice and Blackpink, and probably will be by some 4th gen groups like NewJennies or Aespa down the line.

 

The hill I will die on is that K-pop has lost its flavor and what made it truly unique and brilliant through the course of 2nd -> 5th generation. I worry that Aespa will be the last truly great K-pop group. New acts will have bops here and there but the idol system will never be the same as long as talent continues to be deemphasied again and again with each successive generation. The lack of vocals in Hearts2Hearts, the group from the 'vocals' company, has really brought that home for me.

6 minutes ago, Harrier said:

I dont know why we even really need to try to delusionally pretend SNSD was successful in areas where they weren't, it is objectively the case that all 2nd generation groups including SNSD have been surpassed in raw success, due to the overall growth of the genre and market around the world. Why does it matter? We know SNSD were great, we know they had something that hasn't been replicated. Just be happy with that instead of pushing narratives that are motivated by insecurity.

 

Yes, 2nd generation - led by SNSD - paved the way for that growth. But that's all they did. Even in just local Asian success SNSD has been surpassed by both Twice and Blackpink, and probably will be by some 4th gen groups like NewJennies or Aespa down the line.

 

The hill I will die on is that K-pop has lost its flavor and what made it truly unique and brilliant through the course of 2nd -> 5th generation. I worry that Aespa will be the last truly great K-pop group. New acts will have bops here and there but the idol system will never be the same as long as talent continues to be deemphasied again and again with each successive generation. The lack of vocals in Hearts2Hearts, the group from the 'vocals' company, has really brought that home for me.

key word: organic

like mentioned in the last page, kpop couldn't even be consumed legally back then. so when SNSD sold hundreds of thousands of copies in 2010 it was immensely more impressive than a kpop group in 2025 selling a million from bulk buyers alone 

Yeah I think there might be different definitions of the word organic at play here. SNSD's small western popularity was built up 100% by fan groups and piracy. There was not a nickel being invested into making them happen here until they were already able to book arenas.

 

Every group since then has had funds pouring in from the label to build their fanbase outside of Asia. Nobody ever claimed that there are more American sone than American blinks. The sones weren't created by a billion dollar music marketing machine though.

 

I think newgen fans might think organic just means no bulk albums and no stream farms(which it's true 2nd gen didn't really have these), but there's a whole layer of marketing and general content distribution that didn't exist for SNSD. Kpop MVs would get posted months later if at all on YouTube, music shows weren't available, variety content wasn't available, even just basic news was full of hearsay and flawed translations. SNSD was so popular that stable channels for all of these things to become available quickly and professionally sprung up around them during 2nd gen. That's what is meant by organic. These days a group already has western fans before they even debut, we found out about OSTs the biggest idols months after the fact.

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Ubermensch

Anyways, Stray Kids just had their biggest concert attendance date with over 66K people in São Paulo, Brazil a few hours ago  

They are truly paving their own way 

Look at the scale and budget of the concert and the 100 % live vocals 

The way it was also raining throughout the entire concert

 

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Pluto6

the paved the way arguments

 

we all know 2nd gen mainly BIGBANG, SNSD, 2NE1, PSY, Wonder Girls + Rain and BoA invented kpop. they paved the way. its plain facts there's no argument to be made here  

 

even blinks know this and you would never see a blink claim blackpink paved the way (unless its for the nonsense global ambassador stuff  ) only the bts purplewhales care about this paved the way stuff. we dont gaf about this we're just happy blackpink were the ones who benefited the most from 2nd gen icons and they actually became the biggest girl group from kpop and in the world #ThankYou2NE1SNSDBIGBANGPSY

 

 

5 hours ago, Witnessed ET said:

Why is there a new SNSD argument every other week 

anyway, I did know about kpop as early as 2005 as I was still in asia at the time, but this moment after a few years made me intrigued about SNSD a bit ngl: 

 

This picture is always so weird to me... like, by process of elimination, apparently this is Taeyeon, but it looks nothing like her?

 

Did they hire a stunt double so she didn't have to stand next to Katy, to prevent her leeching some vocal talent?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Harrier said:

 

The hill I will die on is that K-pop has lost its flavor and what made it truly unique and brilliant through the course of 2nd -> 5th generation. I worry that Aespa will be the last truly great K-pop group. New acts will have bops here and there but the idol system will never be the same as long as talent continues to be deemphasied again and again with each successive generation. The lack of vocals in Hearts2Hearts, the group from the 'vocals' company, has really brought that home for me.

 

---

 

you will get called a villain here for rejecting mediocrity and child labour  

 

 

oh they kinda have all,  success, beauty, talent, and good quality music

 

no wonder that smelly fan here is found crying while lining up for some awful boy group's merch  

 

I'm happy that I'm going to end my kpop journey with one kpop act being the biggest group whilst representing and maintaining everything why I fell in love in the genre in the first place 

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Odette Violet

"Lining up for some awful boy group's merch" 

 

Meanwhile the same boy group is having more daily streams than your favorite group and their entire company roster COMBINED  Oh Stray Global don't end SM like that

Edited April 6, 20251 yr by Pluto6

5 minutes ago, Pluto6 said:

"Lining up for some awful boy group's merch" 

 

 

 

Wack Riize again for me.

#StrayKidsPavedTheWay