I keep seeing things that seem to be impossible in terms of units sold (albums from within the last 15 years apparently outselling some of the biggest records of all time) 

 

 

Show some examples of specific data points you don’t think are accurate.

 

If I recall, they are pretty transparent and show their work.  

Edited August 28, 20224 yr by byzantium

They said Moves Like Jagger sold over 20 million copies for Xtina so I’d say yes they’re reliable!

7 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Show some examples of specific data points you don’t think are accurate.

 

If I recall, they are pretty transparent and show their work.  

It may be more stans misrepresenting data.

 

Spoiler

Ik I’m a known OGH but I saw the wildest claim that TFM has somehow sold more units than True Blue for example, which simply doesn’t feel true 

 

The problem with Chartmasters is that stans don't know how to use it. Their team do things like converting physical singles to album units and spread compilation sales across different records in an attempt to measure each release's popularity, not actual sales.

 

Edited August 28, 20224 yr by gustavothehuman

It's the closest we have to the real numbers

the problem with Chartmasters is just the formula they use - some artists rly dont hold that much success as CSPC says it does

1 hour ago, discotitzz said:

It may be more stans misrepresenting data.

 

  Hide contents

Ik I’m a known OGH but I saw the wildest claim that TFM has somehow sold more units than True Blue for example, which simply doesn’t feel true 

 

The Fame + The Fame Monster has sold more units than True Blue (although they're basically matched), which does sound accurate. The Fame + The Fame Monster not only sold a ton of albums but also sold a ridiculous amount of digital singles, and single sales were MUCH higher in the late 00s and early 2010s than in the 1980s. The Chartmasters formula attempts to equalize unit sales by converting all revenue streams to the average price of an album, so single sales and streams are also included.

12 minutes ago, Rev8 said:

It's the closest we have to the real numbers

the problem with Chartmasters is just the formula they use - some artists rly dont hold that much success as CSPC says it does

Actually their formula is really good as shown by how their numbers for Harry Styles matched exactly what Hits Daily Double and Billboard had.

 

The truth is right now is the biggest period for the music industry since the peak of album sales in the late 90s. They are making a LOT of money from streaming. Taylor is making them the $$$ equivalent of selling over 10m+ albums every year.

1 hour ago, discotitzz said:

It may be more stans misrepresenting data.

The way I see it, there are two groups: 
1) One group does not think you can compare different eras because music consumption was too different. 

2) A second group thinks you can compare different eras but will debate on how to calculate the formula.  

Chartmasters is for people in group 2.  They try and synthesize everything into a single unit of EAS.  EAS is not "sales", but it is not meaningless either.  As someone in group 2, I tend to like chartmasters as it is the best source I have been able to find on consumption data, and I think their calculations match up with how "big" or "popular" albums were in my own lived experience.  

3 minutes ago, byzantium said:

The way I see it, there are two groups: 
1) One group does not think you can compare different eras because music consumption was too different. 

2) A second group thinks you can compare different eras but will debate on how to calculate the formula.  

Chartmasters is for people in group 2.  They try and synthesize everything into a single unit of EAS.  EAS is not "sales", but it is not meaningless either.  As someone in group 2, I tend to like chartmasters as it is the best source I have been able to find on consumption data, and I think their calculations match up with how "big" or "popular" albums were in my own lived experience.  

I agree with this, it also helps that they try to equalize things based on $$$. It works especially well for albums during the digital age because most of their units come from album sales and digital singles. So you can very objectively compare the $$$ made between different eras that way. Streaming is a bit trickier because the economics are murkier, but they seem to have access to a lot of behind the scenes data.

1 hour ago, discotitzz said:

Spoiler

Ik I’m a known OGH but I saw the wildest claim that TFM has somehow sold more units than True Blue for example, which simply doesn’t feel true 

 

It feels right that True Blue and TFM are about the same.  TFM was absolutely massive.  It spawned 7 massive singles and was pretty global.  If I recall right, it sold like 14 million pure.  The singles had to have sold about 100m globally which works out to be another 10m EAS. Then add streaming and I am sure the total is north of 30m.  

1 minute ago, Protocol said:

I agree with this, it also helps that they try to equalize things based on $$$. It works especially well for albums during the digital age because most of their units come from album sales and digital singles. So you can very objectively compare the $$$ made between different eras that way. Streaming is a bit trickier because the economics are murkier, but they seem to have access to a lot of behind the scenes data.

Honestly, I wish the music industry just shifted to a revenue based tracking system like box office results for movies.  

5 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Honestly, I wish the music industry just shifted to a revenue based tracking system like box office results for movies.  

Hard Candy biggest female era of the 2000s confirmed (thanks to the $400M grossing tour plus 6M units from the album and its singles) 

Not really. I mean do they want me to believe that BTS has more units than Rihanna and close to Taylor? Girl pls…

33 minutes ago, Protocol said:

The Fame + The Fame Monster has sold more units than True Blue (although they're basically matched), which does sound accurate. The Fame + The Fame Monster not only sold a ton of albums but also sold a ridiculous amount of digital singles, and single sales were MUCH higher in the late 00s and early 2010s than in the 1980s. The Chartmasters formula attempts to equalize unit sales by converting all revenue streams to the average price of an album, so single sales and streams are also included.

This is true. The Fame + Monster IS bigger than True Blue however it’s not a 1:1 comparison. Lady Gaga has two eras counted and they basically also act as a greatest hits album for her career. Madonna’s at a massive disadvantage because she continued to find success with other records and so True Blue isn’t her signature album the way TF+M is Gaga’s.

31 minutes ago, Protocol said:

Actually their formula is really good as shown by how their numbers for Harry Styles matched exactly what Hits Daily Double and Billboard had.

 

The truth is right now is the biggest period for the music industry since the peak of album sales in the late 90s. They are making a LOT of money from streaming. Taylor is making them the $$$ equivalent of selling over 10m+ albums every year.

This is true, but it’s also important to note that a lot of streaming is just stans with multiple devices making a playlist of one song followed by an interlude followed by a different song followed by that first song. They repeat that formula for a 24 hour playlist and then just leave devices playing that playlist with the headphones plugged in. Artists like Taylor Swift, BlackPink and BTS (among many others) benefit massively from having big fanbases willing to manipulate the charts. Then you look at passive streams from playlisting and realize that most streams aren’t from active listening.

5 minutes ago, UnusualBoy said:

Not really. I mean do they want me to believe that BTS has more units than Rihanna and close to Taylor? Girl pls…

It’s because they include unregulated Chinese data. 

10 minutes ago, Eternium said:

This is true. The Fame + Monster IS bigger than True Blue however it’s not a 1:1 comparison. Lady Gaga has two eras counted and they basically also act as a greatest hits album for her career. Madonna’s at a massive disadvantage because she continued to find success with other records and so True Blue isn’t her signature album the way TF+M is Gaga’s.

This is true, but it’s also important to note that a lot of streaming is just stans with multiple devices making a playlist of one song followed by an interlude followed by a different song followed by that first song. They repeat that formula for a 24 hour playlist and then just leave devices playing that playlist with the headphones plugged in. Artists like Taylor Swift, BlackPink and BTS (among many others) benefit massively from having big fanbases willing to manipulate the charts. Then you look at passive streams from playlisting and realize that most streams aren’t from active listening.

It’s because they include unregulated Chinese data. 

This took me out  The shade. But low key true though I stan Ga Ga. But those are the songs the GP loves the best. And "Shallow".

18 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Artists like Taylor Swift, BlackPink and BTS (among many others) benefit massively from having big fanbases willing to manipulate the charts.

The obsession with Taylor and BP 

Get a life!

 

 

23 minutes ago, Eternium said:

It’s because they include unregulated Chinese data. 

Your obsession #2 with Chinese sales. 

In this case BTS doesn't even benefit that much from digital sales from China for you to try to explain their success with it. 

 

I don't even like BTS but they've the sales and streaming from Spotify/Youtube to justify their massive CSPC numbers. BTS may never be on the same level of public awareness compared to Rihanna/Taylor or other western acts but the numbers are there! 

31 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Lady Gaga has two eras counted and they basically also act as a greatest hits album for her career.

this slick drag is taking me down 

Isn't it a fanmade site? That might tell you

It’s a unverified fan site? That alone tells you all you need to know. Their raw data is pretty good (I use it to check streams for example) as it’s taken from the official sources but CSPC is just made up nonsense that no official source has ever (and will likely never) referenced for anything. 

As reliable as mediatraffic 

It's the most reliable global source.

5 hours ago, Protocol said:

Actually their formula is really good as shown by how their numbers for Harry Styles matched exactly what Hits Daily Double and Billboard had.

 

The truth is right now is the biggest period for the music industry since the peak of album sales in the late 90s. They are making a LOT of money from streaming. Taylor is making them the $$$ equivalent of selling over 10m+ albums every year.

Artist like Taylor and any big 10s artist has also lived the worst time of piracy, for example her peak with 1989 was also the peak from ilegal downloads so indeed their units would have been bigger 

No. It's a fanmade account. They only be able to see public data like we all do. The rest are estimation and made up methodology

They have their own methodology, but I think their estimations are within reason. Anyone that’s delusional wouldn’t spend that much time sourcing the data on those kind of numbers. The music industry is full of lies and deceit when it comes to sharing REAL numbers, so it’s difficult to even know how many units certain albums/singles have sold.