6 hours ago, Sharon Stone said:

I'll never understand how her original team saw a 14-year-old writing solo songs that were resonating strongly and decided that the best way to execute her career was to have her jumping from different camps of writers and producers to the other.

It's sad to look at the origins of her career and realise the vultures around her never had her best interests at heart from day one

i think the comparison with billie is a good one cos she always had finneas to fight her corner and that was really important for her in terms of getting what she wanted. but the other point is that tate afaict never really had a framework of musical references to work within that anyone was going to take seriously: she just liked writing and singing songs and didn't think of it beyond that in terms of how it fits into pop music/history and the rest. in that position and at that age, if you haven't got a strong vision for yr sound and no one to fight for you then yr basically at the industry's mercy.

my feeling is that meeting ryan tedder - for all his many sins - was quite freeing because with him having a strong vision for her, it at least let her concentrate on the things she was passionate about and fit it into the framework of dancing, something she clearly understands. the problem is, ofc, that his musical framework is pretty limited too but when yr sat there raving about jeremy zucker rather than the beatles and billy joel then she's probably not going to be that picky. really she needed more time to develop and see who she wanted to be, but also, much of her charm is that her natural talent shines out of her music anyway, i like it that she isn't schooled to know who yr supposed to like

4 hours ago, makeawish said:

i think the comparison with billie is a good one cos she always had finneas to fight her corner and that was really important for her in terms of getting what she wanted. but the other point is that tate afaict never really had a framework of musical references to work within that anyone was going to take seriously: she just liked writing and singing songs and didn't think of it beyond that in terms of how it fits into pop music/history and the rest. in that position and at that age, if you haven't got a strong vision for yr sound and no one to fight for you then yr basically at the industry's mercy.

Exactly this! She had no one in her corner to build her musical identity, hone her natural talents and insulate her from the B.S of being signed to a major label as a teenager. Apart from her songwriting, there was also an individuality and creativity she had as a dancer/performer that could have been developed into a more singular visual and performance identity. I get the sense that her first managers were very heavy-handed, and they had a very specific vision of turning her into the next Billie. It's interesting when she's reacting to her earlier work, saying she hates orange and pink, and those colours were featured heavily in the cover art and visuals for her EPs and IUTTICF. So clearly, someone is imposing their vision on her so strongly that she can't even have visuals with a colour she likes. It's ironic because they were following the Billie print, but Billie had creative control. Everything about her was authentically coming from her, which made it more compelling.

5 hours ago, makeawish said:

my feeling is that meeting ryan tedder - for all his many sins - was quite freeing because with him having a strong vision for her, it at least let her concentrate on the things she was passionate about and fit it into the framework of dancing, something she clearly understands. the problem is, ofc, that his musical framework is pretty limited too but when yr sat there raving about jeremy zucker rather than the beatles and billy joel then she's probably not going to be that picky. really she needed more time to develop and see who she wanted to be, but also, much of her charm is that her natural talent shines out of her music anyway, i like it that she isn't schooled to know who yr supposed to like

I think Ryan Tedder is also one of the vultures surrounding her. His only vision is to score hits, and he realised she's a great vehicle for that, so he latched on. But at the same time, he seems to strongly believe in her talent and long-term potential. I respect the way he speaks about her. The problem is the limited framework like you said, and also the lack of vision/ambition to make something great and singular. There's a 1001 ways to make dance-led music without going into 2000s Timbaland rehashes.

It's the same problem I have with Sean Bankhead, who only sees one version of being a dancing pop star, which is very staccato, cheerleader-esque Britney style choreography. When I was watching Sabrina's Coachella set, all I could think was this is exactly Tate's bag as a dancer. Doing something with scale, inspired by Fosse, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Cyd Charisse, and the old Hollywood musicals, not just jerking into a jump split. This might sound random, but she's better of biting Michael's nachos than Britney's because he was inspired by the likes of Fred Astaire. But of course, Sean doesn't get it. I saw an interview where he said his vision for Tate was to strip away her technical dancing and give her the popstar 8 count, which is so dumb, when she's like Olympic champion level as a technical dancer, and every girl off the street can do popstar choreo. Every interview I watch of him and the way he speaks of Tate irks me so bad.

But Tate strikes me as a very loyal and habitual person. She'll stick with Tedder and Sean forever, unless it becomes commercially imprudent to do so.

15 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

I think Ryan Tedder is also one of the vultures surrounding her. His only vision is to score hits, and he realised she's a great vehicle for that, so he latched on. But at the same time, he seems to strongly believe in her talent and long-term potential. I respect the way he speaks about her. The problem is the limited framework like you said, and also the lack of vision/ambition to make something great and singular. There's a 1001 ways to make dance-led music without going into 2000s Timbaland rehashes.

i do think this actually speaks to the other problem, of people not taking her seriously. everyone thinks tedder is a hack and with good reason: he's an extremely talented hack who's written some great songs with top level artists and performers but a hack nonetheless, and so all the time that he's so heavily associated with her career then there's going to be this idea going around that whatever she does is a bit surface level and lowbrow.

i tend to like a few artists who fall into this kind of bracket, where they're never going to be invited to the top table of anything but they have a quality that marks them out despite that (and tbh sometimes because of that, it can create something that you'd lose from thinking about it too much). but it's always going to set this artificial ceiling on what she can achieve because it's so difficult to break out of that box once everyone's decided that's who you are.

12 minutes ago, makeawish said:

he's an extremely talented hack who's written some great songs with top level artists and performers but a hack nonetheless,

Lol, this is the perfect summary of Tedder.

14 minutes ago, makeawish said:

so all the time that he's so heavily associated with her career then there's going to be this idea going around that whatever she does is a bit surface level and lowbrow.

It's not just Tedder, unfortunately. Everything about her does feel a bit low-brow, down to the styling, her hair and choreography. I guess the part that unsettles me is that, she was very clearly not lowbrow when left to her own devices, and the people who are shaping her career, somehow took what she's good at and cheapened it for mass consumption. When I watch her dance now, I think of that Janet meme lol. What she used to have some class to it, now she's crawling on the floor with her booty cheeks hanging out. There's nothing inherently wrong with that if that's her genuine artistic expression, but I think it's a character she feels she has to play. Looking at her Rolling Stone cover shoot compared to her peers for instance. Sabrina did the tasteful nudity, but hers looks straight out of a men's magazine.

24 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i tend to like a few artists who fall into this kind of bracket, where they're never going to be invited to the top table of anything but they have a quality that marks them out despite that (and tbh sometimes because of that, it can create something that you'd lose from thinking about it too much). but it's always going to set this artificial ceiling on what she can achieve because it's so difficult to break out of that box once everyone's decided that's who you are.

This, I think she has something so special so I know it'll be fine in the end. It just feels like her journey has been artificially made harder than it needs to be.

To add my two cents, I think the hyper-sexualization of her image that started with Think Later and was heavily ramped up with SCTW was a mistake that's gonna cost her. Sure it gave her a lot of attention and made SCTW the hit era it was, but Tate is much more creative and thoughtful (as a writer, anyway) than this and her public perception doesn't reflect that at all. I would love to see her get recognition for how much depth she actually possesses with TM4, but with Ryan at the wheel I doubt that will happen. Chasing hits doesn't a career make.

43 minutes ago, needs said:

To add my two cents, I think the hyper-sexualization of her image that started with Think Later and was heavily ramped up with SCTW was a mistake that's gonna cost her. Sure it gave her a lot of attention and made SCTW the hit era it was, but Tate is much more creative and thoughtful (as a writer, anyway) than this and her public perception doesn't reflect that at all. I would love to see her get recognition for how much depth she actually possesses with TM4, but with Ryan at the wheel I doubt that will happen. Chasing hits doesn't a career make.

50 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

It's not just Tedder, unfortunately. Everything about her does feel a bit low-brow, down to the styling, her hair and choreography. I guess the part that unsettles me is that, she was very clearly not lowbrow when left to her own devices, and the people who are shaping her career, somehow took what she's good at and cheapened it for mass consumption. When I watch her dance now, I think of that Janet meme lol. What she used to have some class to it, now she's crawling on the floor with her booty cheeks hanging out. There's nothing inherently wrong with that if that's her genuine artistic expression, but I think it's a character she feels she has to play. Looking at her Rolling Stone cover shoot compared to her peers for instance. Sabrina did the tasteful nudity, but hers looks straight out of a men's magazine.

i feel like this stuff flipped overnight with the greedy video and it always felt like an odd fit considering the kind of material she was doing at the time, which was generally still quite sad girl and emotional. i mean if that's what she wants to be doing then i have no problem with it - there's a lot of people very quick to weigh in on this stuff who just want to go about shaming women in the public eye - but i agree that esp the tackiness of some of the imagery and how it's been used at times has just felt a bit hollow.

i did think some the videos for SCTW were at least a bit more interesting for what they were - esp it's ok i'm ok worked well as a concept when it could have come off as quite cheap and revolving door was well executed in general, tho in sports car i was never entirely persuaded by the idea that she was taking back control. again it's the sense that it's going with the path of least resistance - she's a hot girl in pop music, why not show a bit of skin - and it reads as low effort as much as anything

Edited June 13Jun 13 by makeawish

33 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i feel like this stuff flipped overnight with the greedy video and it always felt like an odd fit considering the kind of material she was doing at the time, which was generally still quite sad girl and emotional.

Looking back, there were some elements of this earlier on. Uh oh cover art and lyrics, 10:35 MV was more mature and sexy. Going even further to her debut, what would you do single cover, and the scenes with her in the black unitard, and even a moment in feel like **** mv, they were drip feeding her selling sex even when she was a teenager, which is very unsettling to think about. But with think later, it just became so brass, I still remember being taken aback by that random think later promo pic where she's topless holding a teddy bear. And with SCTW, part of the album package has her in a nude body cast which feels unnecessary.

39 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i mean if that's what she wants to be doing then i have no problem with it - there's a lot of people very quick to weigh in on this stuff who just want to go about shaming women in the public eye - but i agree that esp the tackiness of some of the imagery and how it's been used at times has just felt a bit hollow.

I think the ickiness I feel is the sense that it's not what she wants. She seems very comfortable with being sexy on stage, but not with being viewed as a sex symbol or being sexualised, which goes with the territory when you're selling sex. While Sabrina is very aware of the repercussions of making sex central to her music and branding, and plays with it a little, Tate seems bothered by it.

48 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i did think some the videos for SCTW were at least a bit more interesting for what they were - esp it's ok i'm ok worked well as a concept when it could have come off as quite cheap and revolving door was well executed in general, tho in sports car i was never entirely persuaded by the idea that she was taking back control. again it's the sense that it's going with the path of least resistance - she's a hot girl in pop music, why not show a bit of skin - and it reads as low effort as much as anything

I think IOIO was well done, outside of the insane number of cuts, but I thought it was funny how quick she was to post the behind the scenes pics to show that she wasn't actually nude, and purple lace bra being a response to the reaction to that. Like no sh*t, if you're simulating nudity very realistically, people might believe you're nude and be scandalised, and it'll generate headlines. Revolving door was brilliant. Sports car falls completely flat as her taking back control. It's just her looking hot in archival clothes, and was not the right concept for the song. Bless her heart, but sometimes it feels like she's a car salesman trying to convince us that some of these basic ideas have hidden depths lol.

2 hours ago, needs said:

To add my two cents, I think the hyper-sexualization of her image that started with Think Later and was heavily ramped up with SCTW was a mistake that's gonna cost her. Sure it gave her a lot of attention and made SCTW the hit era it was, but Tate is much more creative and thoughtful (as a writer, anyway) than this and her public perception doesn't reflect that at all. I would love to see her get recognition for how much depth she actually possesses with TM4, but with Ryan at the wheel I doubt that will happen. Chasing hits doesn't a career make.

I agree. I fully expect her to pull a Miley in a few years and denounce the whole sexy popstar image, scale back the spray tan and release a folk country album lol.

1 minute ago, Sharon Stone said:

I think the ickiness I feel is the sense that it's not what she wants. She seems very comfortable with being sexy on stage, but not with being viewed as a sex symbol or being sexualised, which goes with the territory when you're selling sex. While Sabrina is very aware of the repercussions of making sex central to her music and branding, and plays with it a little, Tate seems bothered by it.

i don't know that i've felt entirely certain at all what she thought about it from interviews but i do get the sense more that's it's not really her vibe? like, she just doesn't come off like the genuinely trashier end - the close ups on her ass, the cleavage spilling out of the bra etc - is the kind of thing she'd be very into doing, but then she does look like she's really enjoying the stage show, where she probably has more control

I need my Queen to return. She posted a pic in the studio and Tedder commented "👀"

Grammys changing BNA maximum submissions from 3 - 4, which benefits Ella Langley, who is the biggest breakout of the year, but has apparently submitted 3 times already. But when Tate had her breakout year after 3 submissions, it was crickets. I'm telling you all these new girls are part of some elite club that excludes her lol. The way the seas part for things to happen for them.

they just repeated this on the radio, she does a great live vocal and maybe a kind of soulfulness that katy was unlikely to bring out?

On 6/13/2026 at 9:03 PM, makeawish said:

i don't know that i've felt entirely certain at all what she thought about it from interviews but i do get the sense more that's it's not really her vibe? like, she just doesn't come off like the genuinely trashier end - the close ups on her ass, the cleavage spilling out of the bra etc - is the kind of thing she'd be very into doing, but then she does look like she's really enjoying the stage show, where she probably has more control

On 6/13/2026 at 5:39 PM, Sharon Stone said:

Exactly this! She had no one in her corner to build her musical identity, hone her natural talents and insulate her from the B.S of being signed to a major label as a teenager. Apart from her songwriting, there was also an individuality and creativity she had as a dancer/performer that could have been developed into a more singular visual and performance identity. I get the sense that her first managers were very heavy-handed, and they had a very specific vision of turning her into the next Billie. It's interesting when she's reacting to her earlier work, saying she hates orange and pink, and those colours were featured heavily in the cover art and visuals for her EPs and IUTTICF. So clearly, someone is imposing their vision on her so strongly that she can't even have visuals with a colour she likes. It's ironic because they were following the Billie print, but Billie had creative control. Everything about her was authentically coming from her, which made it more compelling.

I think Ryan Tedder is also one of the vultures surrounding her. His only vision is to score hits, and he realised she's a great vehicle for that, so he latched on. But at the same time, he seems to strongly believe in her talent and long-term potential. I respect the way he speaks about her. The problem is the limited framework like you said, and also the lack of vision/ambition to make something great and singular. There's a 1001 ways to make dance-led music without going into 2000s Timbaland rehashes.

It's the same problem I have with Sean Bankhead, who only sees one version of being a dancing pop star, which is very staccato, cheerleader-esque Britney style choreography. When I was watching Sabrina's Coachella set, all I could think was this is exactly Tate's bag as a dancer. Doing something with scale, inspired by Fosse, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Cyd Charisse, and the old Hollywood musicals, not just jerking into a jump split. This might sound random, but she's better of biting Michael's nachos than Britney's because he was inspired by the likes of Fred Astaire. But of course, Sean doesn't get it. I saw an interview where he said his vision for Tate was to strip away her technical dancing and give her the popstar 8 count, which is so dumb, when she's like Olympic champion level as a technical dancer, and every girl off the street can do popstar choreo. Every interview I watch of him and the way he speaks of Tate irks me so bad.

But Tate strikes me as a very loyal and habitual person. She'll stick with Tedder and Sean forever, unless it becomes commercially imprudent to do so.

She actually responds to these comments in the footnotes version of sports car. She containts multitudes and doesn't want to be boxed in (classy vs trashy) also she did try to incorporate some of her more trained dance movements into the video.

50 minutes ago, Europe said:

she did try to incorporate some of her more trained dance movements into the video.

I saw that, interesting that she actually mentions wanting to incorporate Fosse into the sports car video, because that's exactly what the song gives, but the very little choreo she does in the video isn't really Fosse. In the bts Sean also mentions wanting her to dance less, which is an odd choice for the most dance song of the album. I'm also a very big anti of his tour choreo for sports car. Robbie Blue's snl and vma's choreo is much better, yet none of them go fully into the burlesque jazz that the song is screaming for, similar to Buttons' choreography.

2 hours ago, makeawish said:

they just repeated this on the radio, she does a great live vocal and maybe a kind of soulfulness that katy was unlikely to bring out?

I love that she's covered this song over the years. It's a great way to track the evolution of her voice. Yeah her cover, injects some rawness into it.

She was in full baninis and advocadis territory when she first covered it

The world yearns for more Tate. It's interesting that it's really only been a few months since she last dropped, and it feels like such a drought. I think people didn't realise how much of a fun presence she is in pop. Her absence is really noticeable in a dry year like this. (Other than queen Olivia ofc). I feel like she truly has established a key place in the pop ecosystem of this era, and people expect/want releases from her more frequently than others.

Who's going to T8Palooza & Osheaga?

This is so random lol

1 hour ago, Sharon Stone said:

This is so random lol

this is the big name collab we need, a fading star willing to front up on TM4

She was recently pictured with Cardi.

Collab coming?

Is there any tea on when her contract with RCA is up? I know her contract supposedly leaked when her entire vault of unreleased songs leaked

This gag

Is it true she's working with Max Martin?? Kinda worried.. his recent output this decade has been trash.

4 minutes ago, Cheers said:

Is it true she's working with Max Martin?? Kinda worried.. his recent output this decade has been trash.

i'd love it if they did something like new woman, that's a very tate vibe i think

13 hours ago, Cheers said:

Is it true she's working with Max Martin?? Kinda worried.. his recent output this decade has been trash.

I doubt it. She had sessions with Max, Savan, Ilya in Sweden for Think Later, and IOIO is the only song from those sessions that got released, and Max isn't on it. Based on the way she's spoken about him, it didn't seem like they were a match.