KingDavid

I'm feeling this for sure.

Vision of Love alone clears anything Taylor has written. Be so for real.

Because she's not a good singer, not a good dancer, not a good performer, not particularly fashionable, not particularly dynamic a personality, and has a image pretty specifically curated and built around whiteness. She's the perfect MPG for the current "anti-woke" era which helps to explain why she's so popular, with which demographics, and why artists like Morgan Wallen were able to ride to the top of the Hot 100 because of her influence on pop music culture. The fact that her stans throw her numbers around against artists that the average person will objectively consider more talented at SINGING or PERFORMING only to be shouted down with ShE wRiTeS hEr oWn MuSiC like it's some kind of gotcha when her music is as juvenile and purposely inoffensive as the rest of her. Unless she needs to drag a "slutty" woman.

I don't argue with children, carry on.

Were you born in the 2000s or something? Paula Abdul has huge hits and her legacy is present in the dance breaks of all the pop stars who were trying to keep up with her. The woman choreographed Janet for ****'s sake.

Ariana had a Hot 100 #1 this year with no album out. Personal drama aside she is definitely still a MPG.

Is this how you describe someone who took significant time off because both her parents had cancer?

No, she's currently a flop. Katy flopped out of the conversation, Gaga half flopped out half focused on other ventures, and Rihanna has basically retired until further notice so I wouldn't include any of them as MPGs, currently. They are still Pop Icons, and Rihanna's MPG status would be restored if she actually continued to release music. TO ME, the only current MPGs are Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Adele, and Ariana Grande. Add SZA if you consider her more Pop than Alt-R&B.

Naomi is one of the biggest names in modeling, hon.

Rihanna > Beyonce > Adele > Gaga > Taylor

Chromatica doesn't belong in the same conversation as Renaissance. Or in the conversation of Lady Gaga's best work.

Musically? MJ > Queen > Rihanna > Bad Bunny > the rest

There are plenty of straight (as in, self-identify as straight, actively seek out romantic/sexual relationships with women, and move about society with unquestioned heterosexual privilege) who also are willing to sexually experiment with men. It's crazy that everyone accepts this is true for women, but not men, as if we're different species. If straight people weren't so homophobic and gay people weren't so obsessed with bisexual erasure (but only of men) and/or catty dismissiveness rooted in jealousy whenever this topic comes up, we could have a real discussion about it.

We are literally talking about gay male culture, in which "I'm only attracted to white men" and "I openly treat non-white gay men with hostility, dismissiveness, derision, or scorn" are foundational tenets. The framework is important. Gay men do treat preferences like they mean mandatory requirements, which contributes to the experiences of non-white gay men being comparatively negative. You can say attraction is passive but choosing to exclude or demean non-white men in all manner of social situations -because- you are not attracted to them -because- they are not white is white supremacist behavior.

Where was the lie in my first statement? If you're only attracted to white guys, you are a white supremacist. You literally believe that whiteness is a superior trait, and being white makes a man more attractive as compared to blackness, Asian-ness, etc. You're telling me Donald Trump, Brad Pitt, Timothee Chalamet, and Michael Cera are the same level of attractive, and far more attractive than the likes of Godfrey Gao or Broderick Hunter by virtue of being white? The other hard hitting truth is that gays don't want to accept that for what it is, hence you reading it and feeling the need to argue. Stop equating "white supremacist" with its most extreme forms, let's start there. As I've been saying, white supremacist ideology (even in more "benign" forms) is an everyday occurrence in LGBTQ+ interactions.

What I'm getting at is that 9 times out of 10, when it comes to day to day LGBTQ+ dynamics and interactions, especially inter-racial dynamics and interactions, one's "passive" sexual selection and the active way they go about treating others go hand in hand. That's the uncomfortable truth gay men aren't ready to hear. White supremacist ideologies are all up and through this ***** (the LGBTQ+ "community") and we can never have a conversation about that without people coming out of the woodworks to argue against points nobody's making. Ex. "You can't force someone to be attracted to someone they aren't attracted to" -- no one's saying that? It always ends up devolving into a bunch of flimsy justifications for internalized white supremacy rather than unpacking or even directly addressing the effects of that on LGBTQ+ people.

I don't see it for her but she's absolutely become The Queen of White People and that cannot be denied.

Exactly. I was a stan during The Fame/Monster eras but during Born This Way the cracks started to show. She got rid of people like Laurieann, her songwriting became way more...self-indulgent, and she really let a certain sect of gays gas her up into thinking she could do no wrong and had an infallible artistic vision; she didn't. With that said, she changed the game and her impact is solidified so I doubt she's losing any sleep over her career but she could have had a longer and more sustained run as THEE Pop Girl if she didn't fall into the trap of believing her own hype.

I literally said stand on your white supremacist beliefs instead of trying to insert them into a "progressive" worldview because you'll fail every time. I'm not trying to convince anyone to be attracted to anyone else, I'm saying that if you have not and do not care to unpack the ways in which your "preferences" (which, funnily enough, match up with overarching white supremacist/cisheteronormative culture 99% of the time) have been informed by white supremacy, anti-blackness, etc. you should stand on them, meaning you should be who you are and be amongst like-minded people. It's not like they're hard to find; "I only like white guys" is commonplace gay cultural rhetoric; regardless of the race of the speaker. The problem with gay men is that they think "I'm a champion for equality" and "I believe whiteness is the most desirable trait to seek in a romantic partner" aren't completely incongruent, and will espouse this rhetoric in a completely un-self aware way. I'm not arguing against preferences; I prefer to date tall men. I don't go up to short men and tell them they'll never be attractive to me, I don't go out of my way to demean them if I'm on a dating app, and I don't pretend my preference for height hasn't been informed by a surrounding culture that prioritizes (and uses the media to promote) the image of tall = attractive. I also don't actively discriminate against short men; plenty of them are attractive even if they aren't my "ideal."

Katy was making Young Girl Pop, she was always going to be replaced by a younger model when she got to a certain age. Enter Dua Lipa.

You're telling on yourself. Nowhere did I argue people should force sexual interest in people they aren't attracted to. I said people who've internalized white supremacist ideology to the point they have no problem saying "I only find white men attractive" should stand on that ideology instead of trying to fold it into progressivism. White supremacy isn't progressive babe.

Imagine caring about who other people are sleeping with. I care about white supremacists infiltrating or taking up space around actual progressive people and thinking they won't/can't be called out because "it's just a preference."

Absolutely not.

If you're white and only like white guys, you're a white supremacist. If you're a person of color and only like white guys, you're also a white supremacist. Stand on that and stop trying to justify it so you can still call yourself "liberal" or "progressive."