Nicki Minaj announcing her 3rd Pink Friday album got me thinking about how much major pop acts are relying on rehashing old stuff to sell these days. Taylor is rerecording whole albums. Gaga was literally dressing up as her old self during the Chromatica ball. These girlies used to bring new eras consistently. It's not even just legacy acts either, Olivia's album cover looks like it could have been a Sour photoshoot outtake.

 

Sticking to a successful formula has always been a part of the recorded music business but I feel like it's reaching a new level with certain artists. What is ATRL's opinions on this trend? Do you prefer it when an artist you like plays it this safe?

Spoiler

This isn't to bash anybody my fav put out 2 remix albums, a sequel album, and spent the pandemic era dressing up as previous versions of herself. So keep it CUTE, ATRL! 

 

Edited June 29, 20233 yr by Century

Pop culture is in its rehash phase rn. Movies are all remakes and sequels, music is rehashing same sounds. It’s fine for now but will become tired soon i fear.

3 minutes ago, Century said:

Gaga was literally dressing up as her old self during the Chromatica ball.

This... doesn't feel true. Idk what you were expecting her to look like, but she was dressed like Lady Gaga.

1 minute ago, Miichael said:

This... doesn't feel true. Idk what you were expecting her to look like, but she was dressed like Lady Gaga.

She literally put on a decayed version of a Monster Ball costume to sing Monster 

 

It was a highlight of the tour and a gag in person but Gaga usually doesn't look back like that.

 

5 minutes ago, Century said:

She literally put on a decayed version of a Monster Ball costume to sing Monster 

 

It was a highlight of the tour and a gag in person but Gaga usually doesn't look back like that.

 

I think they were pretty different. And Gaga has referenced her past work so many times throughout her career I wouldn't even know where to start going all the way back to TFM She literally did a VMA performance where she changed into different era's looks during ARTPOP. She repurposed the meat dress concept for the BTWB. Continuously updated the disco stick for subsequent tours after TF era. I could go on and on.

Edited June 29, 20233 yr by Miichael

I think nostalgia REALLY boomed during covid and even now but I think it’s gonna burn out in another 2-3 years

Thankfully, we have artists like Lorde who NEVER repeats themselves and always comes with something new    

4 minutes ago, Miichael said:

I think they were pretty different. And Gaga has referenced her past work so many times throughout her career I wouldn't even know where to start going all the way back to TFM She literally did a VMA performance where she changed into different era's looks during ARTPOP. She repurposed the meat dress concept for the BTWB. Continuously updated the disco stick for subsequent tours after TF era. I could go on and on.

The plot of TCB literally involved going to the past... It's a little more on the nose than wearing a meat dress on the meat dress album tour. Chromatica the album was also obviously inspired by TFM and BTW tonally. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but I think its odd how some of the biggest stars in the world are more afraid to step out of their own shadow than they used to be.

 

2 minutes ago, Kayseri Mantisi said:

Thankfully, we have artists like Lorde who NEVER repeats themselves and always comes with something new    

I didn't like Solar Power but she came to mind when I was writing the OP as an example of somebody who doesn't fall in line with this AT ALL. Kinda triconic behavior  

Edited June 29, 20233 yr by Century

7 minutes ago, Miichael said:

I think they were pretty different. And Gaga has referenced her past work so many times throughout her career I wouldn't even know where to start going all the way back to TFM She literally did a VMA performance where she changed into different era's looks during ARTPOP. She repurposed the meat dress concept for the BTWB. Continuously updated the disco stick for subsequent tours after TF era. I could go on and on.

Nobody’s disagreeing but it wasn’t as intentional as the Chromatica Ball. She brought the same team who did TMB interludes back for the first time (Showstudio and Nick Knight) in a decade and had Nicola Formichetti back too. It was way more intentionally referential and a massive  callback tonally and visually to the Monster Ball and BTW throughout. The clear callbacks throughout on the album too and her fears about hating “Lady Gaga” were directly responding to her past self. Nobody is saying it’s bad but it was the most overt references and reusing to those eras past simply putting on a costume.

6 minutes ago, Kayseri Mantisi said:

Thankfully, we have artists like Lorde who NEVER repeats themselves and always comes with something new    

Solar Power 

Pop culture is always self-referential. To a degree, it’s about mass consumption and that comes with building a brand. I think you’re pointing out lazy examples of it. Once an artists reaches a certain level, they think they can regain and keep old fans with relying on cheap old self-references.

9 minutes ago, vuelve88 said:

Solar Power 

A masterpiece

15 minutes ago, Century said:

The plot of TCB literally involved going to the past... It's a little more on the nose than wearing a meat dress on the meat dress album tour. Chromatica the album was also obviously inspired by TFM and BTW tonally. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but I think its odd how some of the biggest stars in the world are more afraid to step out of their own shadow than they used to be.

 

I didn't like Solar Power but she came to mind when I was writing the OP as an example of somebody who doesn't fall in line with this AT ALL. Kinda triconic behavior  

I'm not denying that she was being self referential on the Chromatica Ball, I'm just saying that it isn't a new thing for her. There's also lots of other examples Gaga referencing herself throughout her career, she's been doing it since way before Chromatica era. Chromatica as an album was a million miles from TFM and BTW to me, so it's interesting how different people have different perspectives. Gaga announced BTW the night she wore the meat dress but it was during the TFM era, not BTW.

 

11 minutes ago, lgaga1fan said:

Nobody’s disagreeing but it wasn’t as intentional as the Chromatica Ball. She brought the same team who did TMB interludes back for the first time (Showstudio and Nick Knight) in a decade and had Nicola Formichetti back too. It was way more intentionally referential and a massive  callback tonally and visually to the Monster Ball and BTW throughout. The clear callbacks throughout on the album too and her fears about hating “Lady Gaga” were directly responding to her past self. Nobody is saying it’s bad but it was the most overt references and reusing to those eras past simply putting on a costume.

I know she brought back some of the same collaborators but I just don't see that many similarities in the actual show. Thematically, visually, conceptually, production wise they are very different to me.

5 minutes ago, Miichael said:

I'm not denying that she was being self referential on the Chromatica Ball, I'm just saying that it isn't a new thing for her.

I would say that opening the tour with a TFM era costumed interlude and counting in the show just like TMB before ripping into a whole act exclusively comprised of her biggest hits, then immediately changing into a costume that portrayed a rotting corpse of her former self was a pretty huge scaling up of the references, but to each their own. Without the overarching story about healing she was telling and the very fresh-feeling and trend setting influences she pulled from later in the show it would have seemed like a complete retread/rehash at points.

11 minutes ago, Miichael said:

There's also lots of other examples Gaga referencing herself throughout her career, she's been doing it since way before Chromatica era.

I don't really disagree but I think there's a difference between capitalizing on recent success and bringing something back fully as a celebration of or recontextualization of previous work like Gaga and many other top artists are doing rn.

 

9 minutes ago, Miichael said:

Chromatica as an album was a million miles from TFM and BTW to me, so it's interesting how different people have different perspectives.

They are musically very different but they're all dark, pop-dance albums at their core with themes of mental health, her place in society as a superstar, and reflecting on how those things interact with her self-perception. They're more similar to each other than any other album in her discography is to any of those 3. It's not a bad thing they're all masterpieces and loaded with bangers. 

 

14 minutes ago, Miichael said:

Gaga announced BTW the night she wore the meat dress but it was during the TFM era, not BTW.

Lines between her first eras were very blurry and she was promoting 2 albums at once with each transition. The meat dress was 100% the start of the Born This Way era and the messaging around it falls more in line with Born This Way than with commentary on celebrity culture or diving into her fears.

we might just feel tired of it from being overexposed to it due to the boom of social media and throwback content on it

Part of a larger issue where entire genres are lazily rehashed and recycled with minimal innovation.

Yes. Its all reboots, sequels, prequels, revivals, spin offs, samples… 

 

It’s getting tired 

24 minutes ago, Century said:

I would say that opening the tour with a TFM era costumed interlude and counting in the show just like TMB before ripping into a whole act exclusively comprised of her biggest hits, then immediately changing into a costume that portrayed a rotting corpse of her former self was a pretty huge scaling up of the references, but to each their own. Without the overarching story about healing she was telling and the very fresh-feeling and trend setting influences she pulled from later in the show it would have seemed like a complete retread/rehash at points.

I don't really disagree but I think there's a difference between capitalizing on recent success and bringing something back fully as a celebration of or recontextualization of previous work like Gaga and many other top artists are doing rn.

 

They are musically very different but they're all dark, pop-dance albums at their core with themes of mental health, her place in society as a superstar, and reflecting on how those things interact with her self-perception. They're more similar to each other than any other album in her discography is to any of those 3. It's not a bad thing they're all masterpieces and loaded with bangers. 

 

Lines between her first eras were very blurry and she was promoting 2 albums at once with each transition. The meat dress was 100% the start of the Born This Way era and the messaging around it falls more in line with Born This Way than with commentary on celebrity culture or diving into her fears.

I see some similarities in certain outfits from the two tours, but I don't think they are that similar and I think overall the CBT and MBT are very different. I also think it makes sense for an artist to be self-referential on stage when performing songs from certain era's. It works in the context of the story she was telling so doesn't just feel like a rehash.

 

And to be honest I don't see or hear that many similarities thematically and lyrically between Born This Way, The Fame Monster, or Chromatica. To me they all have very different lyrical styles, totally different themes, and different influences. They are all dance-pop albums but that's about as far as their similarities go in my opinion.

 

She announced the title of Born This Way in September 2010, but the era itself didn't really start until early 2011. Alejandro was still her current single at the time of the meat dress, she wasn't promoting Born This Way at all. Saying that the era began when she announced the album title is like saying that ARTPOP era began in August 2012 when she announced the title, almost a full year before the era actually started, or that The Fame Monster era began while Gaga was promoting Paparazzi and announced TFM title in early summer 2009.

22 minutes ago, Miichael said:

or that The Fame Monster era began while Gaga was promoting Paparazzi and announced TFM title in early summer 2009.

Bad Romance was literally promoted alongside Paparazzi on more than one occasion and at least once outside of awards season on SNL...  That era transition was so blurry that some non-stans still argue whether or not TFM is a fully separate project or not. 

 

22 minutes ago, Miichael said:

Saying that the era began when she announced the album title is like saying that ARTPOP era began in August 2012 when she announced the title, almost a full year before the era actually started,

She started dressing and behaving like her ARTPOP persona around this time so in a way yes I'd call that the start of an era to some degree.

 

22 minutes ago, Miichael said:

I see some similarities in certain outfits from the two tours, but I don't think they are that similar

To be clear, the opening interlude of CBT includes her in an outfit she originally wore for promoting Bad Romance on the X-Factor. If you dont think it's that similar you're being ignorant. There's also the aforementioned Monster outfit which between the song choice, latex costume, glasses, cross-tape nipple covers, and bringing back the original choreo, I'm not sure what more she could have done to evoke TFMGa other than to age backwards 10 years live on stage every night. It was very intentionally a major callback and judging by the audience reaction you're in the minority for not getting it.

 

At a certain point it stops being about opinions and personal readings of the work and crosses into intentionally misreading her work and ignoring the clear intentionality of it to "win" a forum argument.

22 minutes ago, Miichael said:

And to be honest I don't see or hear that many similarities thematically and lyrically between Born This Way, The Fame Monster, or Chromatica.

The way there are songs on Born This Way that were literally leftover from TFM. You're being unserious at this point. 

Edited June 29, 20233 yr by Century

1 minute ago, Century said:

Bad Romance was literally promoted alongside Paparazzi on more than one occasion and at least once outside of awards season on SNL...  That era transition was so blurry that some non-stans still argue whether or not TFM is a fully separate project or not. 

 

She started dressing and behaving like her ARTPOP persona around this time so in a way yes I'd call that the start of an era to some degree.

 

To be clear, the opening interlude of CBT includes her in an outfit she originally wore for promoting Bad Romance on the X-Factor. If you dont think it's that similar you're being ignorant. There's also the aforementioned Monster outfit which between the song choice, latex costume, glasses, cross-tape nipple covers, and bringing back the original choreo, I'm not sure what more she could have done to evoke TFMGa other than to age backwards 10 years live on stage every night.

 

The way there are songs on Born This Way that were literally leftover from TFM. You're being unserious at this point. 

I was referring to Paparazzi's original single release in Europe/Australia around the time the video came out, that is usually regarded as the Paparazzi era of The Fame. She started teasing The Fame Monster during that time. And the "ARTPOP" looks that she was doing in 2012 during the creation of the album were vastly different to the looks that she actually did during the era once it started. 2012 was still the Born This Way era, we just knew the title of her next album.

 

Sis neither one of us is being ignorant we just disagree on how similar the CBT was to TMB  I did say that there were some similarities but overall I feel like the shows are very different.

 

And which songs from Born This Way are TFM leftovers?

They're waiting for Rihanna to come back and set new trends

That's why I find myself listening to musicians who aren't well known to get away from the lack of effort.

59 minutes ago, Miichael said:

And the "ARTPOP" looks that she was doing in 2012 during the creation of the album were vastly different to the looks that she actually did during the era once it started. 2012 was still the Born This Way era, we just knew the title of her next album.

You're forgetting all the music we got during BTWB that was meant to be for ARTPOP and her teasing songs like the title track or MJH. Lady Gaga herself was definitely already portraying her ARTPOP fantasy teas very publicly whenever she wasn't doing a scheduled appearance for promoting or performing BTW material.

59 minutes ago, Miichael said:

I was referring to Paparazzi's original single release in Europe/Australia around the time the video came out, that is usually regarded as the Paparazzi era of The Fame

These eras were less than 6 months apart though and included a big shift in the way she presents herself in-between. She adopts a new style and persona for every album and for me that's when the era starts. Especially with those first albums where she was simultaneously and continuously promoting, touring, and recording for 4 years straight; It's very subjective where one era ends and another starts, but I don't think Gaga sold any Bad Romance or Alejandro meat-themed merchandise though so there's definitely some clues from Gaga on how she lines things up. 
By your standard, looks like this from summer 09 have nothing to do with TFM. I just don't see it(esp given the wig and hat in the first one). Lady Gaga eras aren't a snapshot in time ruled by when X single was released. It's about sound and aesthetic and influences and characterization.

Spoiler

 

59 minutes ago, Miichael said:

And which songs from Born This Way are TFM leftovers?

Bloody Mary.

 

If we want to ease off of TCB and it's parallels to TFM/TMB and bring the discussion back more on topic there was also Enigma where Gaga performed more of The Fame than any other album and wore costumes that definitely fit more in with The Fame or TFM eras than ASIB or even Joanne. She's definitely ramped up the nostalgia factor a lot over the past 5 years to varying degrees of success like most of her peers. I'm not trying to start a conversation about if X pop girl is doing it because other than Beyonce all the active MPGs are guilty of it rn(Even Madonna the queen of reinvention and staying fresh is doing a GH tour). I'm more interested in the why and the impact this is having.

Edited June 29, 20233 yr by Century

1 hour ago, Century said:

You're forgetting all the music we got during BTWB that was meant to be for ARTPOP and her teasing songs like the title track or MJH. Lady Gaga herself was definitely already portraying her ARTPOP fantasy teas very publicly whenever she wasn't doing a scheduled appearance for promoting or performing BTW material.

These eras were less than 6 months apart though and included a big shift in the way she presents herself in-between. She adopts a new style and persona for every album and for me that's when the era starts. Especially with those first albums where she was simultaneously and continuously promoting, touring, and recording for 4 years straight; It's very subjective where one era ends and another starts, but I don't think Gaga sold any Bad Romance or Alejandro meat-themed merchandise though so there's definitely some clues from Gaga on how she lines things up. 
By your standard, looks like this from summer 09 have nothing to do with TFM. I just don't see it(esp given the wig and hat in the first one). Lady Gaga eras aren't a snapshot in time ruled by when X single was released. It's about sound and aesthetic and influences and characterization.

  Reveal hidden contents

I guess we just have a difference of opinion on what constitutes as the beginning and the end of an "era", and that's okay. Gaga used to be very open about her creative process and would often tease albums while she was still touring and promoting her previous one. In my opinion, 2012 was Born This Way era and ARTPOP era began in July 2013. In my opinion, the end of The Fame era was the 2009 VMA's.

 

1 hour ago, Century said:

Bloody Mary.

That's not true though. That's a fake rumour that started because a fan made a fake tracklist in 2009 for TFM that included a song called "Bloody Mary". By coincidence, Gaga ended up writing a song the following year with the same title. Bloody Mary was written and recorded in 2010. (Recorded on April 8th, 2010 to be exact). There are no songs on Born This Way that are TFM leftovers.

 

 

4 hours ago, lgaga1fan said:

Pop culture is in its rehash phase rn. Movies are all remakes and sequels, music is rehashing same sounds. It’s fine for now but will become tired soon i fear.

even video games are all remakes