Blur

For ATRL standards which are very low, the thread hasn't been derailed too much but it's too bad we still have to read a few pot-stirring, factually untrue and badly written ragebait to get to the interesting discussion and people confronting their point of view. First, Britney is indeed a more important element to pop music than Rihanna who was a consistent celebrated, hitmaker but never a phenomenon or at the excellence level of performance Britney was operating at. We speak about the "Umbrella link between the two but, if we're being honest, the whole Good Girl Gone Bad thing also had other songs written for Britney on it. Again, Rihanna worked super hard to make it in the big league with this record and was ahead of her time with DSTM (electro-dance when it wasn't the norm, yet) or Disturbia (doing the Fame Monster, type of dark songs/hyper stylized video before it was even a thing). Hot take and many don't notice it but I like how Rihanna's did the nasal, vocal fry Britney originated, with a lower, huskier voice, taking in to another dimension. So, in short, it's not because you're inspired by someone that came before you that you didn't bring tons of things to the table yourself. This leads me to my final point, people saying Britney is just Madonna's and Janet's leftovers are super ignorant of the three ladies careers. Madonna & Janet: cerebral/statement/boundary pushing/songwriting that is not to be played with. Britney: instinctive/escapism/boundary pushing/genius intuition for the key markers of her career (BOMT, Oops, Slave, "Toxic", In The Zone, Britney, Blackout, "Criminal", Glory...). Also, Spears was a blockbuster teen popstar coming from a disney show (something M and Janet never achieved, though J started as a child star too). She took Janet's blueprint but more age-appropriate so as to not get cancelled (before going all the way in with In The Zone and Blackout). Then, she Y2K'd her looks to the max and used her movie (which had quite dark themes explored, for the time) + The Neptunes sound to make the leap toward being an adult popstar, with songs that reflected her life at the time (and some edgier teen pop, here and there, to not alienate her fanbase). This was a gamble, most younger users can't even imagine because they're desensitized but it truly was, and made her lose half of her sales but I'm convinced she would have been left behind without doing a radical step to shake things up. Thus, a new blueprint was put in place that's been used ad nauseum for 90% of the popstars we've been discussing on this forum (just a quick look at the ex-acts trajectory would make my point, in a second!). I'm still putting you a link to the most beautiful message Janet has gotten from a fellow celeb, down below, just in case.

Sometimes, I wonder if a pop culture quizz becoming a requirement to join this site wouldn't improve the quality of the posts we're sometimes subjected to in here... "...Baby One More Time" is the song that shifted the pop culture landscape in its entirety. There is a clear divide between the pre-Britney music world and the post-Britney one. The song went number one everywhere, was crazy controversial (something his previous material never achieved), had unexpected SPUNK, transcended the teen pop stigma and became a generational anthem. When you think "Max Martin", you'll think about Ms Spears first, let's be honest for a second. Just for that, she's the rightful winner of the title (that and making one of the most successful song ever, way above anything BSB/Jessica Folker/Robyn have ever done). Grammy10 Ways Britney Spears' "…Baby One More Time" Changed Pop...Released 25 years ago on Sept. 29, 1998, Britney Spears' iconic pop confection was a musical thunderbolt. GRAMMY.com revisits "…Baby One More Time," and 10 ways Spears' debut single changed the…Also, let's not act Oops wasn't a wall to wall pop masterpiece, brillantly produced (the title track alone, the richness of the details, the aural assault hidden as a falsely innocent pop song), with distinctive, tailor made songwriting, perfectly brought to life by Britney. Let's, once again, remind everyone Oops had NME writing she was "modern day pop perfection" and Rolling Stone giving her a 71/100! Do you realize how difficult this was for her (with the "talentless puppet" narrative already well established by most) to prove the critics wrong with the sequel to a blockbuster teen pop album (probably the LEAST respected genre ever)?

Blackout has kinda become the new blueprint for electro-pop albums by female. It is brought up as a main inspiration by so many new pop girls, it's astounding. I've always preferred Madonna's 80s and 90s work compared to Ray of Light. Even if I like the album, True Blue, Like A Prayer and Erotica are miles ahead (much more subversive too, btw). In spite of not following respectability politics, Blackout proved you could make a relentless party album, filled with double meaning, innovation and elements of depth woven throughout the record. A stone cold miracle given Britney's reputation, at the time, and the preconceived notions/misogyny around pop music in the late 00s.

It's been five years her streaming numbers have been gradually getting better so the "she sold her catalogue" cop out isn't factual, I fear (always dissociating her from her achievement is type A exhibit of misogyny, btw). Most fans knew that when she'd start getting passable playlisting (not "good" just "passable"), her numbers would increase even more. They were 100% right!

People think her classics are worth more than what she's got which is pretty flattering, in a sense. Then, you also have the general belief that she's a vulnerable person that always gets the short end of the stick. This is not what happened here and Britney is quite savvy, even if she doesn't want people to think that of her and she makes it work in her favor.

Excited to see more and more pop acts sell their catalogue for people to realize a 150/200 millions deal is nothing to scoff at for a retired artist (especially since her share wasn't big, in the first place). Streaming giants such as JB and Katy had deals around 200 millions, even when they co-wrote more than her, are still active and benefit from recency.

All her collaborators said the opposite these past twenty years, we'll take their words above yours.

1st Hot take: Her discography is one of the greatest/smartest in pop music EVER (+ the most influential for the 21st century), yet she barely got any types of credit for that (even the fre*aking VMA's shunned her, at her peak). This total lack of respect, both from the industry and her family, must have taken its toll from 1998 to 2018. Ironically, her music has never been more celebrated, and her streams are smashing rn, but it might be too little too late, for her now. I'd advise reading her autobiography again because it's really enlightening. She's not some dumb bimbo, FAR FROM IT. She proved time and time again how her instincts were the best (asking to change the ...BOMT video for corniness, then changing the jean/t-shirt outfit the director had in mind, choosing Pharrell for Britney and Danja for Blackout, pushing for Toxic, often co-writing on her best songs, without always asking for credit, being strategic for creating Glory in spite of her "epic fail" team...). Yet, she was always second guessed as if she was a newbie, even after having sold 50 millions record before being of legal age ! 2nd Hot take: She's marked history, performed with her idols, recorded some of the most entertaining pop albums ever (Blackout alone will probably never be topped, let's be honest), created a bulletproof iconicity that still reverberates to this day and is one of the most successful popstar ever (if we take impact + clones WW into account, she's number one for the 21 st century). What's left for her to accomplish really ? She's like a champion who got the serotonin shoots of dozens of gold medals. How do you follow when you reached the apex of excellence in your field ? We all know the conservatorship ruined her passion for music and that she hates the Hollywood machine. But I truly think she's smart enough to know people (her rabbid fanbase, especially) would have unrealistic expectations if she ever came back (such as her confiding her most personal wounds when music is a place of escapism for her). All of this when she's got nothing left to prove, in the end.

"Generic", "dated"... All negative buzzwords that can't be attached to an artist that has always pushed pop music forward, in every way possible (vocal fry, baby voice, delocalized the pop industry from the US to Sweden, bombastic teen pop, electropop, Neptunes as pop producers, having produced 1/3 of In The Zone while "Umbrella", "Single Ladies" and "Baby" didn't exist yet, talk singing on 2008's "Trouble" on a similar musical progression as Tik Tok, Gaga as her songwriter before she made it big, dubstep before her peers all started to use it in their songs, wobble and the list goes on). Most pop albums bring us back to the year they were released. This time capsule is part of their charm. But pop artists have to evolve with the trends of their time or they are left behind. Britney actually experimented, while smartly remaining on trend, putting her ahead of the curve a lot of the time, with shockingly on point pop instincts (Britney, In The Zone, Blackout and Femme Fatale being the most obvious example of that). Glory is doing just that familiar sounds with a few, strange curveball thrown in ("Clumsy", "Do You Wanna Come Over", "What You Need" and "Private Show"). Then, the deluxe is going all out, trying so many new things, and I can't think of other major 2016 female pop albums that gave salsa/latin sounds a, year before Havana smashed hard (forward thinking icon, that's right) , spaghetti western pop bop, bonkers hyperpop oddity (even A.J Cook would have been jealous of that one) and minimalist French spoken, sultry electropop (mylene found stanning), ALL in the same album, 100% convincing and never sounding contrived!

"Just Luv Me" and "Make Me" were moments. In an ideal world, she's released an entire album following those templates.

The range, the versatility, the excellence... No one was/is doing it quite like her. We truly didn't how good we had it... PS/ Warming up and playing around right before making history (some nice harmonies toward the end) :

I don't find the album generic, honestly except for "Love Me Down", "Just Luv Me" (still different enough and better sung than "Good For You", obviously) and "Slumber Party" (for the "Hotline Bling" progression, but again many flourishes in the production that keeps it lush and distinct enough). As for the deluxe (now with streaming, the deluxe is basically the version most people will listen to and don't say the streams are bad, we're here for the art here ), we have "Liar" (the glorious western spaghetti experimental pop bop we didn't know we needed), No seas Cortes (doing the Havana sound before Camilla smashed with it, a year later), "Swimming in The Stars" (in all its ethereal, epic glory), "Coupure éléctrique" (minimalist dark electro with auto translated, french lyrics repeated, hypnotically) and the bonkers, hyperpop oddity that is "If I'm Dancing". Only "Better" was really generic (probably the most "by the number song" on the album). By the way, I remember one of the biggest complaint at the time was that the album was lacking HITS (which was true but again, she more than deserved to have her "artsy fartsy" era at this point), so calling it generic is contradictory if no surefire smash was recorded for the project. The normal version is adventurous enough, mixed with familiar sound of its time, but the deluxe was quite daring, for her to release in the face of her money hungry, and artistically challenged team con trying to grift money and f*cking up her legacy, at every turn! She said it herself in her memoir, the warrior in her came back recording this album, which ultimately led to her freedom 5 years later.

People have been unfair to this album. Pure pop was in the trenches and most albums, from the late 10s, had to be political or have a "personal" gimmick to them. Here, Britney just let loose and delivers a career high with variety and risks (singing in different languages, mixing different styles from pop/rock to country to minimalist electro pop and maximalist hyperpop). What's impressive is that even taking the best pop had to offer from 2014 to 2015, she doesn't sound derivative and still expand on that sound (which is what she always did, Sagittarius are adventurous by nature). It's so pleasant to hear her colorful personality that made her a pop legend, fully on display across so many differents genres. Kudos to her also for shouting Selena Gomez (even if her influence is on 1-2 songs, at best). Tons of veterans are inspired by the new generation but they never have the balls to admit it. Best songs: Make Me, Just Luv Me, Liar, Do You Wanna Come Over, Slumber Party, Man On The Moon, Just Like Me, What You Need, Change your mind and If I'm Dancing. By the way love that little story about "If I'm Dancing". Misogynistic pop stans often mistakes her being a team player (who knows her brand and her place in the pop hierarchy) with her being a puppet, with no mind of her own (Justin Tranter debunked this, by the way, emphasizing her talent for creating bulletproof pop melodies). This couldn't be further from the truth (even the FF demos were different from the final product, in spite of the autopilot facade she sometimes displayed at that time). Chantal Kreviazuk ("If I'm Dancing" writer) caught this right away, in the studio:

There's been a clear resurgence for Britney these past few years, with solo daily streams even bigger than some of her active peers rn. That + HMC being a success and her book smashing kinda shielded her from the 90s/00s nostalgia act she almost fell into from 2016 to 2020. During this period her streams were a disaster and her influence on new popstars was still in it's infancy + mostly contained to ex-acts (something more widely established now with Charli's BRAT, Magdalena Bay, Tate McRae or Addison Rae, just from the top of my head). Even during the con years, she made history for reviving Vegas for the youth, got a cult classic with WB and a platinum, top twenty with "Make Me". Like there was still potential to make her current but things never completely fell into place (personally and professionally, for obvious reasons + her brand of pop was really not the sound that was smashing from 2013 to 2017, many huge pop acts such as Gaga and Katy suffered during that period too, by the way, notably with ARTPOP and Witness.)

What is this ? Are you okay ? Don't even know why I'm replying but TONS of your posts seems to point at people by taking what they say out of context, as if half of this board was on an anti-Gaga crusade (funniest thing is that a few artists can apply to what I wrote but I wasn't thinking of Gaga). Constantly pointing fingers is a way of deflecting from something (the mods should get on your case ASAP). Also, paranoia, hypervigilance + creating drama out of nothing can be the sign of poor mental health but I hope it's not that and you're just trolling/stirring the pot.

Crossroad was successful, not in terms of acclaim it would have NEVER happened at the time even if it had been great. Never understood why media and pop fans grouped it with those movies since the studio actually earned money with this one, on a very low budget. It's crazy how sometimes people rewrite reality and a lie becomes the truth. That's some 1984, mass psychosis right here !

No but really, all fighting aside, Britney's catalogue, even the underrated masterpiece that is Glory, tells the story of mainstream pop music, from the late 90s to the early tens. Adding to that, you have iconic moments, in every forms possible, to illustrate her reign + all the girls (her peers included) that were inspired by it (I'm being generous saying that because some girls straight up copied her!) . She's just undeniable, in spite of the fact she stopped playing the game more than 20 years ago (+ was part of a symbolical jail sentence for 13 years that had HUGE effects on her trajectory and success, this cannot be stressed enough really). You can diminish greatness but you can't erase it, that's why she still prevails (a successful duet with legend Elton, record-breaking streams for a 90s artist, one of the best selling books, in recent years + a 200 millions deal for her catalogue, without even lifting a finger). In other words, she's the people's princess not the one pushed by the media (who hated her guts during her peak BTW). Her streaming resurgence is the GP saying to her, "it's been a chaotic road, and we often failed you, but your legendary, timeless music will remain in our hearts".

Congrats to Britney, this is HUGE, no matter how you want to slice it. By the way, the "she sold her catalogue" cop out will not age well, sorry for the people clinging to it. Most popstars WILL sell their catalogues, eventually. Just look at the state of the industry, the way influencers + streamers now are as big or bigger than top, current music stars + the economic crisis. Remember, also, that a catalogue can have is value lowered so people who will wait too long to sell theirs might regret it, in the long run. I know we're looking at the people we discuss in this forum as artists (and they are, for the most part), but they're also VERY money inclined, capitalistic and have tons of people they have to pay to keep their crazy lifestyle going...

As a pop artists you're the sum of your five biggest songs + how you iconicity is remembered and reenacted by the new generation. How many "Slave 4 U" inspired video did we get, just in the past two years ? And that's only focusing on this one song. No one can beat Britney at that game, in the 21 st century, not even Rihanna who has more hits but doesn't have a "Toxic" or a "...BOMT" (yet ?), that is a perfect, once in a lifetime type of songs, or a videography that shaped pop for decades (we underestimate how much Brit's videos were broadcasted on music chanels, all over the world, billions of streams she's lost with that never being accounted at the time). It's interesting to see so much resistance to her finally exploding on streaming, this means she's on the right path (and will, ultimately, be number one for pre-streaming female, when the movie is released and haters will find other excuses to discredit her astounding success... Who'll be surprised though ?). By the way, I've seen people saying things like "folks" are not listening to her album in their entirety (focusing on her evergreen, top hits instead). First, most albums are carried by their hits, this isn't exclusive to her, and it's even more striking for pre-90s solo artists. Second, her first five albums represent almost 100 000 000 units sold, with a big chunk being full priced physical albums, so yeah her albums were definitely listened to, in full (so much that a few gen Z popstars are literally studying those deep cuts for their own album's artistic direction ).

I think Britney does put herself into question, even if she's not posting a lot about it. There's also the gigantic issue we all have in this virtual world, to deduce her mental state according to what she posts online. There are 24 hours in a day, we absolutely have no idea what she's doing the remaining time. Learning how to knit ? Binge watching Modern Family and Sex and The City ? Reading ? Taking naps ? Or putting the final touch to her own rage room ? Don't forget that Britney, even if she's made her mistakes, didn't choose to be the bandage child of her parent dysfunctional marriage. She also comes from a very religious background and they are the worst type when it comes to dealing with mental help ("She's possessed", "She needs to pray and everything will be back to normal" + other nonsense). I also have someone in my close family circle that has had serious problems with bipolarity but we can't compare a pop legend, with a once in a lifetime fame (the most photographed and number one on google search for close to a decade) to everyday people. Not the same universe. What's even more ironic is that Britney's biggest "fault" for many people is superficial (as in her disgust for the Hollywood machine and longing for normalcy that will never truly happen, unfortunately). She's not acting the part of an A-list celebrity and her online presence is unusual. These people don't want her healthy, they want her to conform to the status quo (when deep down the two are not mutual and Britney could be doing a lot better than we imagine through the tiny lense of her social media). Just my two cents, ultimately only her know what's truly going on with herself + what's strenght she's left with to get better (once again, becoming the biggest star on earth at 16 yo and the most succesful teenager ever is unprecedented so there's no guide book or any one she can look up to).

Why shoehorn someone that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, in such a gratuitous way ? And why singling out a 3 years old Shakira tribute (with FAKE accessories, in a gigantic living room) as the worst thing that could happen to someone, decontextualizing Britney's life story + traumas as a measuring stick for a shaky charts/wellbeing dichotomy ? What she went through is so much more complex than that, there's still so many things we don't know about her. One thing is sure, she's a SURVIVOR through and through and deserves better than the constant disrespectful misogyny she gets around here...

I really applaud her for not touring. She's missing out on so much money, being a generational icon with known songs and signature looks across three decades. I, for one, have never been a fan even if I like a few songs and that last album was really lush. The thing is, touring has become predatory and a bit repulsive to be honest (ticketmaster turning buying ticket into a speculating hellscape + tons of other problematic things like f*cking up the environment even more, for example). It's a bit keeping with the Joneses when going to a concert was supposed to be affordable and not this elite, social proof for the all mighty algorithms of repetitive posts that, often, dies on arrival (and are endlessly replaceable). One thing we tend to forget about Miley is that she's really LOADED. With Hanna Montana alone and the way her image was exploited for all kinds of products, she's set for life. Recently, she co-wrote Flowers, a song that will remain one of the definitive track of the 20s (in Europe, saying it was spammed to death everywhere in 2023/2024 would be an understatement). Even looking at her adult career, and a few risky decisions she's made, you get the feel she can afford, in every sense of the word, to throw us in a loop once in a while. In the end, maybe she'll do a tour eventually but I applaud her for sticking to her gun and not partaking in one of the worst industry currently, the concert industry (which is broken, abusive and needs a wake up call). Kudos to her for also realizing touring is awful for her mental health and priorizing this over greedy profit (because once your mental health is affected, it's very difficult to come back from that, especially in this ruthless industry). PS/ These interviews below, done before the non-success of her last album, falls in line with what I've been getting from her, these past few years.

All of these while never being a radio or a media darling + being the selling female artist of the 00s. Astounding numbers

I forgot pre-00s SOLO, starting in one of the most derided genre ever that is teen-pop

Britney, only pre digital popstar in a list that favors newcomers and streaming giants. All that with no new albums in 10 years