PoisonedIvy

This is a micro aggression and I will be reporting you for violating ATRL's zero tolerance policy of racism

I don't really think either side is beefing with the other though, there's some people trying to make it seem so but Tinashe isn't really biting the bait and most Swifties don't even know Tinashe (which is entirely their loss, she's been one of my favs since Aquarius )

Girl I think it's time to log off and touch some grass because this is embarrassing

I think the negative reception to TTPD was largely framed as "31 songs is too much" instead of "Taylor had 31 songs worth of material that she felt compelled to share; let's dissect why." I'm not asking the critics to kiss her ass, I'm just asking them to not be so immediately dismissive of her work, because that shapes the general public's perception of the project right away. I understand where you're coming from about critics needing to inject their subjective opinions; that, I do not disagree with. But it's fairly obvious when a writer simply does not like an artist and isn't even attempting to reconcile the redeemable aspects of a record with the readers. A good critic should also be critical of their own interpretation, not just the project they are reviewing.

Critics can point out the flaws within the musicality of the album while still highlighting the strengths of it, but that's where the disconnect happens. Reviewers tend to want to point out what Taylor is doing "wrong" without making it a point to acknowledge what she is doing well! I think the best reviewers are able to guide the casual listeners/readers to a neutral starting point so that they can develop their own subjective opinion on a body of work, but the "scoring" system everyone has adopted has kind of soiled that aspect of professional journalism. Instead of being told that TTPD is an album that /is/ lengthy, bloated, and at times, monotonous, but that it is also a rewarding character study of the artist that is narratively rich in lore, is a much more valid starting point for a non-fan to approach the album with than just seeing a score of 5.6 or whatever and a headline about how Taylor is giving us "more music than anyone cared to receive from her." That type of criticism perpetuates the very public narrative of fatigue that incited the negative reception in the first place. In a way, the public grows more tired of Taylor because of reviewers telling the audience this is the case. If reviewers shifted their narrative around Taylor's releases, the general audience's reception of her work would follow. Most casual music listeners /are/ relatively sheep-like, after all. I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, but it's pretty easy to sway public opinion.

Right, I acknowledge that Showgirl probably won't earn any notable acclaim, even once time has shifted the narrative surrounding Taylor once more. But the fanfare and narrative should not be affecting the analysis of the work itself. In no world are the 4 encore tracks a 4.0 PZ (outside of its bridge), PC, & Babylon especially are all perfectly average/above average tracks for her standards. They're being weighed down by the general narrative of fatigue that plague the artist herself (& Cleveland) instead of being graded based on the content themselves. I'm not insinuating they deserve an 8, but a 4 is obviously a dogpile score based on fanfare & narrative; especially considering deluxes getting reviewed separately from the parent album is already pretty ludicrous lol

These are things her fans could have told/tried to tell y'all on release day though, but people act like someone being paid to analyze an album makes their opinion more valuable than someone else's? We have always understood that TTPD is not an easy album to digest for casual listeners — but for anyone willing to engage with the character and the lore, it is the most rich and rewarding album in her entire catalogue. That it has taken critics a year or two to start parroting the same talking points we've had since Day 1 is the real anti-intellectualism, if you ask me TLDR; critics should have done their job from the start and properly dissected TTPD, instead of focusing on the artist behind it. General audiences don't always know how to properly engage with the work of some artists and instead follow the lead of professional critics, so those professionals should be doing a better job of analyzing the material and not the creator

Right but they reviewed Showgirl's Encore edition tracks, and they're blatantly admitting that online discourse affects their digestion of Taylor's music; so how can we take their review seriously after that confession? Or any reviewer for that matter? Taylor's music will never be fairly graded because she's reached a level of frenzy that afflicts people's consumption of her work. This is not to say Showgirl should've been rated any higher, but it does call the authenticity of her critical reception post Taylormania into question!

But that WAS her expressing herself, she had 31 tracks worth of things to say and any actual fan would love to get that much of a data dump from their artist during one of their most emotionally turbulent periods. Hell I would love a 31 track Gaga album where she lets it all out in the music! Just because you don't personally enjoy the output doesn't mean the intention behind it was commercial success. And to top it off, I don't think any of the despair filled ballads on TTPD were released to become sleeper streaming hits

We know

I disagree so much with this take The "12" songs that would be chosen in this hypothetical would mean leaving off 19 others, and every song appeals to different people. So the 12 you'd see as a perfect album would be weak to another and missing the personal favorites that so many of us have come to love. Whereas releasing all 31, in the streaming-playlist age, allows people to build their own perfect version of the album and run with it. A higher quantity of tracks means more chances for people to find something they can take away; a lower quantity means if you don't click with what's offered, it is now just a bad album with no incentive to revisit (IE Showgirl. 12 tracks and everyone hates it, whereas if we'd gotten more from the jump maybe we could've at least walked away with enough good to outweigh the bad. Lover is even getting positive revisionism for this exact reason right now despite it being her worst pop album imo; people are saying there's more good tracks on it than Showgirl, and that's thanks to the quantity of songs released.)

It also reminds me of reputation. Not sonically, but in how polarizing it was upon release between fans vs casuals. The fans ride HARD for it, while everyone else doesn't see the vision. Maybe time will be kind to it the way it has been to reputation, or maybe it will remain a cult classic. To be determined!

Her most lore rich album, very rewarding as a fan of the artist. The kind of project anyone would feel grateful to have from their fav. I understand it's far too bloated for casual listeners but for me, I wouldn't remove a single song except for Robin. Everything else serves a greater purpose. Career highlights in Fortnight, Guilty as Sin?, loml, Chloe et al., The Prophecy, So Long London, The Black Dog, Fresh Out the Slammer; personal favs in People's Windows, How Did It End?, I Hate It Here, Down Bad, My Boy, So High School, imgonnagetyouback, I Can Fix Him, … god I love this album

Hey so idk if you know this but this is from 2018, and people can change their ideals a lot in 8 years! Criticism that may have phased her in the past can be irrelevant to her nowadays.

Also yeah, the songs on Encore aren't nearly as bad as the reviews would indicate. Everyone's just dogpiling now that the pendulum has swung from extreme adoration back to extreme disdain. It will swing itself back by TS13! Still mad we're not getting Debut TV though

I actually don't feel like the hate is louder, I still think the Lover singles run was her worst era in terms of musical reception & the 2016 hate train was her worst era in terms of public perception. Everything else is just a retread of that. She'll be fine, and if anything some of the lashings are actually kind of funny this time around since I know they're not going to amount to her career ending. She's still bigger than everyone else and will return with solid output the next time around

YES Taylor, YES Madonna, YES ratings

I'm sorry but y'all literally only want her to go away because of the level of success she has. If she was releasing this frequently but to no fanfare then you quite literally wouldn't care please spare us the theatrics. I want Taylor to release as much music as she wants because it's refreshing having an artist actually enjoy their job.

I love seeing Taylor's detractors suffer but I also need her to get her head back in the game

imminent downfall finally here I guess, tickets will be cheaper next tour thank GOD

Not to mention Pink Clouding platforming pink nips as superior to brown nips.

She wants every record, even the bad ones that Katy holds

Taylor, please, PLEASE keep alienating people into not liking you. I NEED to be front row for the next tour and the less competition I have the better

I don't like Cleveland as a song but I love what it stands for, because she's absolutely right and she should keep rubbing salt on the wound

When she delivers albums as frequently as she does, there's something for everyone. Everyone has a Taylor album or sound they like (typically even the people that don't like /her/ overall at least gravitate towards Red or folklore) meaning even when the rest of her catalogue falls short of someone's expectation, the quantity of output ensures she always has many different pockets of listeners and subcultures within the fandom that orbit the eras they prefer TLDR; the more quantity, the more opportunities for quality. It's better to have 4 great albums, 5 good, and 3 mid than to have 2 great albums, 1 mid, and that be all.