On 2/27/2026 at 1:11 AM, Sharon Stone said:

So I think she's going to keep growing commercially for a few more years, then sadly, she's going to get the Khalid, Halsey, Camila treatment where her moment passes suddenly. Hope i'm wrong, but either way, it's going to be a fun ride.

i've also struggled with the idea that she'll ever truly be an MPG in a sabrina, olivia, ariana sort of way but the thing that this makes me wonder is, what does a tate album sound like if she did disregard commercial considerations more?

tbh i don't even think she knows what it would sound like herself at this point - her songwriting seemed to start as an end in itself rather than something where she had an idea what sort of records she'd turn them into - tho i'd expect that to emerge over time. i'd kind of like it to be a megaselling ANTI or thank u next rather than c,xoxo but tbf c,xoxo kicks ass so i'd take that

On 3/1/2026 at 8:23 AM, makeawish said:

been listening to the first album a bit yesterday and today and remembered how fond i am of it. yes the vowels are a bit tortured, it's all very sub-olivia but the songs are great and the performances have that mix of sulkiness and fury about Being Wronged By Those F*cking Boys that really goes off, it reminds me of the performances from this era where she'd hold the mic very precisely in front of her and spit viciously into it, she was giving so much drama at that point! (as much as SCTW is her best record i do miss this tate a bit tbh)

the first three songs do kinda sound like they've drifted in from a different project but they're still bops and also, i feel like the idea that it feels clunky is oversold cos she has such a distinct personality on this album. i do get the sense that people thinking every song should have the same vibe is a bit of an excuse just to drag people for not much in general tbh (also, 'what would you do?!' esp reminds me of the kind of very dumb tweepop songs i used to listen to a lot maybe a decade ago).

but anyway, after that the run to the end does feel much more obvs cohesive, even "i still say goodnight", which has very obviously drifted in from some abortive billie project, has that teen girl problem page vibe to it which is very typically tate at this point -"i know that look you get when you're about to lie" esp has that real 'hints and tips to see if your boyfriend is cheating' vibe - and which i find very touching in a silly sort of way. and then go away, boy x, SAIWB, feel like sh*t, you're so cool: all top tier tate bops! go away esp is a real alltimer, so many great lines: "you like to care until you don't" 😭. a much underrated album smdh

I think there are some gems from this era feel like ****, chaotic, she's all I wanna be, go away. But the album as a project intended to launch her to success was a massive misstep from her team. They should have never tried to make her one of Olivia's sons, considering she was already doing the sad girl/breakup songs before Olivia. But the branding and aesthetics clearly channeling sour and the bratty pop-rock lite sound was a mistake. She couldn't sell it well. I remember she struggled to sing she's all I wanna be live for the first few years. She's lucky she wasn't famous then because there were some tragic performances.

I think her going from Billie lite to Britney esque would have gotten a lot less pushback if she didn't have a brief Olivia era. She's still fighting from derivative accusations today.

That being said it's ironic that she had her most consistent creative direction then when she had no budget. It was really clever how all the music videos and album visuals connected to each other. And there was a certain charm to her performances then. Her summertime ball performance is still one of my favorites. Not one note was sung live. But she was living. And I think her televised performances since greedy don't have that same sense of fun.

1 minute ago, Sharon Stone said:

I think there are some gems from this era feel like ****, chaotic, she's all I wanna be, go away. But the album as a project intended to launch her to success was a massive misstep from her team. They should have never tried to make her one of Olivia's sons, considering she was already doing the sad girl/breakup songs before Olivia. But the branding and aesthetics clearly channeling sour and the bratty pop-rock lite sound was a mistake. She couldn't sell it well. I remember she struggled to sing she's all I wanna be live for the first few years. She's lucky she wasn't famous then because there were some tragic performances.

i love that album but there's a real feeling about it that it doesn't fit in with anything she ever did before or since and it's not much of a surprise that she's never really had a good word to say about it. i get the sense that she allowed herself to be steered into that sound because she wasn't confident enough to speak up for what she wanted, or she hadn't really given it a lot of thought. but the songs are great, the performances are great, that's where the personality comes out i think

3 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

Her summertime ball performance is still one of my favorites. Not one note was sung live. But she was living. And I think her televised performances since greedy don't have that same sense of fun.

the first time i saw her on tv here was when she did greedy at the brits and it was bloody awful. i think that early era with the choreo was so scratchy, she knew it was what she had to do to build the brand i guess but she's really feeling her way with the singing (or not). things like sports car on SNL were a huge improvement but ngl i'm much happier watching her belting out you broke me first or something (i guess siren sounds would be the current analogy) because it's something uncomplicated that she brings a lot of charisma to.

I've been thinking about the evolution of her choreography and I think Sean Bankhead like Ryan Tedder has taken her as far as he can. He's a great choreographer but he doesn't really have an ambitious creative vision or range. I can't imagine him doing something like sports car vmas or Doechii's Grammy performance both by Robbie Blue. But Robbie Blue also did the just keep watching mv and revolving door that got her dragged so I think he works better for performances, but not for music videos or tour.

I've been obsessed with Molly Long's latest choreography. She's a competition choreographer but her dances go mega viral on TikTok (pop muzik and double dutch bus). She also choreographs for Laufey. Her choreo is stylized, musical, groovy, jazz and I think that's something Tate can sell really well, and something that will standout from every other dancing pop girl. There's also will oftis, who did Ariana's yes, and. He's worked with Tate before on Stupid MV and in her dancer era. Both of them get Tate's style of dance more than Sean or Robbie ever could.

Every iconic dancing pop star has a signature style of choreography and Sean doesn't have the ability to do that for Tate. I think he really dropped the ball with sports car choreography, and it could have been much bigger if it had a viral or memorable dance

28 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i love that album but there's a real feeling about it that it doesn't fit in with anything she ever did before or since and it's not much of a surprise that she's never really had a good word to say about it. i get the sense that she allowed herself to be steered into that sound because she wasn't confident enough to speak up for what she wanted, or she hadn't really given it a lot of thought. but the songs are great, the performances are great, that's where the personality comes out i think

She hates the album lol. She talked about this in her billboard cover interview in 2023. It seems her management at the time pushed her to work with every in demand producer/songwriter and she was trying to please everyone and ended up loosing her identity. So she found new management and then locked in with the Tedder camp.

46 minutes ago, makeawish said:

the first time i saw her on tv here was when she did greedy at the brits and it was awful

I remember watching the brits performance live on tv and it was awful, there were some sound issues, and then a better version was uploaded on YouTube. I see a lot of Tate stans saying it's one of her best performances but I'll never agree because I remember how underwhelming it was live. The performance also had a lot of awkward starts and stops and just wasn't staged well.

8 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

I remember watching the brits performance live on tv and it was awful, there were some sound issues, and then a better version was uploaded on YouTube. I see a lot of Tate stans saying it's one of her best performances but I'll never agree because I remember how underwhelming it was live. The performance also had a lot of awkward starts and stops and just wasn't staged well.

i watched it live on ITV and i was just sat there literally shocked by how bad it was! dua had just run the length of the studio twice doing 'training season' and got hoist above the stage without dropping a single note, tate was definitely done dirty by the sound but the comparison was deeply unflattering, she was only singing every third line and just sort of shambling about

i remember a lot of snark about the more muted exes performance at the iheartradio awards but it was very clear it was a reaction to the feeling that she'd bitten off more than she could chew at the brits (i've heard her say as much). but also, this was why i think sports car on SNL was so impressive, she took a lot of time away to get it right but she'd clearly worked on what needed to be done and it was a huge triumph, including the live vocals

38 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i watched it live on ITV and i was just sat there literally shocked by how bad it was! dua had just run the length of the studio twice doing 'training season' and got hoist above the stage without dropping a single note, tate was definitely done dirty by the sound but the comparison was deeply unflattering, she was only singing every third line and just sort of shambling about

i remember a lot of snark about the more muted exes performance at the iheartradio awards but it was very clear it was a reaction to the feeling that she'd bitten off more than she could chew at the brits (i've heard her say as much). but also, this was why i think sports car on SNL was so impressive, she took a lot of time away to get it right but she'd clearly worked on what needed to be done and it was a huge triumph, including the live vocals

After delivering her magnum opus performance her team couldn't figure out how to keep it online. I hate them so much. The fact that dear god is somehow still up when it was so tragic makes it worse. I remember being so perplexed that she didn't perform revolving door when it was so viral at the time. Then she did a poorly arranged slowed down version of dear god instead of just doing purple lace bra or siren sounds if she wanted a slower song. Everything about her rollout week was so ™️messy lol.

I still don't get why Sabrina, Billie, Olivia, Chappell get to keep their snl performances on their channels but not Tate. Apparently you have to pay to license it but surely it can't be that simple.

SCTW is now one of a handful of female albums to spend the entire year in the top 40 of the Billboard 200 The fact that she used to be dependent on having a song randomly go viral on tiktok and now she can sustain an album without a big hit. I'll never forget the gaggery of SCTW release week and how the numbers kept growing and growing.

She's gotten bigger since then. I think a 200k+ debut for TM4 is locked, but if they play their cards right with the singles and have more variants and alternative covers, a 250k - 300k debut is within reach. If that happens, it will establish her position once and for all. Think Later made her a pop girl, SCTW made her a star, TM4 could make her a superstar. I can't imagine the pressure she/her team must feel because TM4 has so much to prove.

it's stayed top 40 here for the whole year as well and if anything that's a more impressive feat. the way the uk albums chart is structured (discounting the streams of the two biggest songs) hugely favours catalogue big hitters and greatest hits albums, most new entries tumble straight out of the chart in a couple of weeks and are never seen again. but she's massive here now, she had five top 10 hits in this era and and four more top 40 hits (not you morgan).

i'm minded to think the next one is the big one too but i was interested that she'd switched up the sound for the deluxe tracks, which i think was the right thing to do and braver that she's been given credit for. she's still at that stage where you need to keep reinventing a bit, i don't think a soundalike follow up would do so well (see short n sweet > mans best friend). it's important to keep evolving and do something different that still has her vibe

Edited March 3Mar 3 by makeawish

50 minutes ago, makeawish said:

it's stayed top 40 here for the whole year as well and if anything that's a more impressive feat. the way the uk albums chart is structured (discounting the streams of the two biggest songs) hugely favours catalogue big hitters and greatest hits albums, most new entries tumble straight out of the chart in a couple of weeks and are never seen again. but she's massive here now, she had five top 10 hits in this era and and four more top 40 hits (not you morgan).

Yes she's an undeniable MPG in UK now. It's a shame she had bad timing releasing with Sam Fender so SCTW didnt peak at no 1, but the longevity is more impressive. Her success in the UK makes it more confusing that she didn't get a Brits nom. I wonder if something happened, because she was rumoured to perform and then didn't even get nominated.

59 minutes ago, makeawish said:

i'm minded to think the next one is the big one too but i was interested that she'd switched up the sound for the deluxe tracks, which i think was the right thing to do and braver that she's been given credit for. she's still at that stage where you need to keep reinventing a bit, i don't think a soundalike follow up would do so well (see short n sweet > mans best friend). it's important to keep evolving and do something different that still has her vibe

Definitely, a soundalike will not be the right move. I think she could fall into 2 traps for TM4. Either trying to do an album stacked with hits that isn't saying anything interesting or trying to do something ambitious and conceptual and not landing it. Finding the right balance is the main challenge she has. She needs to have undeniable hits but I think TM4 needs to be personally revealing beyond her typical relationship/friendship drama narrative. If she's smart, she'll use it as a way to address the narrative that has built around her like Ari did with TUN. But I hope she knows that no one wants to hear a song about that hockey boy putting her into positions. It was hard enough to believe with Laroi.

36 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

She needs to have undeniable hits but I think TM4 needs to be personally revealing beyond her typical relationship/friendship drama narrative. If she's smart, she'll use it as a way to address the narrative that has built around her like Ari did with TUN

we did a lot of ariana comparisons in the SCTW thread and my feeling is that she should be looking at something closer to a sweetener type era next time? definitely something with a bit more personal weight to it and also more substantial in terms of collaborators (ffs ryan will have to go eventually lmao) but still reasonably easy going in terms of its sound

44 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

I wonder if something happened, because she was rumoured to perform and then didn't even get nominated.

ngl i would not be surprised if someone remembered the greedy performance

This is such a great live performance! Came on after Olivia's VEVO live and i thought Tate's was so much better. She killed this!

wait I just heard this one and it's even better!

Edited March 5Mar 5 by Raphy

anyone else not love Greedy? I mean it's a bop but I never go to play it, it's not even in Tate's top half songs.

33 minutes ago, Raphy said:

anyone else not love Greedy? I mean it's a bop but I never go to play it, it's not even in Tate's top half songs.

greedy i have such a weird relationship with cos i remember it blew me away when it came out, would just keep hearing it and thinking about how extraordinary it sounded (unlike a lot of her best songs it's a real production rather than a song, the sound of it is the thing)

but also i've never been able to shake the idea that there's something wrong with it, the third verse comes back too quickly and then it feels like its rushing onto the end too fast, it needs a proper bridge in there somewhere. it sounds great but there's a sense (like a few things on think later) that it's not beating the tik tok allegations

that said, it randomly came on the radio a few weeks ago and i just burst into tears, her power!

45 minutes ago, Raphy said:

wait I just heard this one and it's even better!

the version of we're not alike i was never keen on but i love that 'hurt's my feelings'. it comes off much more as one of her sadgirl songs, completely turns the meaning around

9 hours ago, Raphy said:

anyone else not love Greedy? I mean it's a bop but I never go to play it, it's not even in Tate's top half songs.

i LOVE Greedy but its overplayed for me now. I hardly go to play it. Meanwhile sports smash still sounds as fresh as the day i heard it.

crept up on me but my SCTW double vinyl arrives on friday!!! actually excited like an idiot

im obsessed with my new Avi

It kinda urks me that JKW is having more daily streams than SC, since SC is the massive hit of the era. But at least she has multiple hits with longevity

deluxe vinyl is in the house but i haven't got time to faff about with it yet. feel like she looks like a sleeping giant on the sleeve, who will stand on waking and go striding over the mountains to wreak havoc (metaphor for her career amirite)

So Close To What' by Tate McRae spends its 55th week at #6 (+3) on the ARIA Albums Chart. Crazy how Australia stans her even harder than Canada. It's at 11 in Canada this week. I feel like her success in Canada is a byproduct of her US success. I don't think she's backed heavily by Canada the way most non-US acts are by their home countries.

7 minutes ago, Sharon Stone said:

So Close To What' by Tate McRae spends its 55th week at #6 (+3) on the ARIA Albums Chart. Crazy how Australia stans her even harder than Canada. It's at 11 in Canada this week. I feel like her success in Canada is a byproduct of her US success. I don't think she's backed heavily by Canada the way most non-US acts are by their home countries.

So true. Tate started as a youtuber posting her original songs. So her fanbase was US/international from the start. A lot of canadians who know her don't even know she's Canadian.

1 hour ago, Raphy said:

So true. Tate started as a youtuber posting her original songs. So her fanbase was US/international from the start. A lot of canadians who know her don't even know she's Canadian.

Exactly, she was never a Canadian act trying to break internationally. Which is why I found the whole traitor accusations hilarious. Of course, she didn't find it problematic to do a US ad when she's signed to a US label, US management and almost certainly generates the majority of her income from the US. The sad reality is that if the Canadian market were completely cut off from her career, it would have no impact, which isn't a good thing.

I feel like the bigger talking point from the whole fiasco should have been the lack of infrastructure Canada has to support its homegrown acts. People from Europe, Asia, Africa, and Australia can have long, healthy careers without ever breaking the US, but it's not true for Canada.

1 minute ago, Sharon Stone said:

Exactly, she was never a Canadian act trying to break internationally. Which is why I found the whole traitor accusations hilarious. Of course, she didn't find it problematic to do a US ad when she's signed to a US label, US management and almost certainly generates the majority of her income from the US. The sad reality is that if the Canadian market were completely cut off from her career, it would have no impact, which isn't a good thing.

I feel like the bigger talking point from the whole fiasco should have been the lack of infrastructure Canada has to support its homegrown acts. People from Europe, Asia, Africa, and Australia can have long, healthy careers without ever breaking the US, but it's not true for Canada.

I agree with all of it. To be fair she was signed to Canada only record label first, and RCA only signed her later. I heard Tate on Canadian radio before You Broke Me First dropped.

I so badly want her next era to smash hard just to watch all of her detractors switch to tate avis

27 minutes ago, Raphy said:

I agree with all of it. To be fair she was signed to Canada only record label first, and RCA only signed her later. I heard Tate on Canadian radio before You Broke Me First dropped.

She was signed to RCA from the beginning. She got discovered from One Day going viral on YouTube in 2017, started meeting labels in 2018, and was signed to RCA by the end of 2018. She did get early radio play in Canada with Stupid, which was pre-YBMF, so she benefited from CanCon in her early career, but she was already signed internationally.