Oceania

A culture is more than ancient temples and traditional costumes you only see in old village festivals. Entertainment, technology, communication, science, food, fashion, architecture, you name it...the World is so americanized people outside the US don't even realize it's not their own native culture anymore.

This planet is full of people who would sell their own mother for money and MJ was too easy of a target given his peculiar personality and appearence (and wealth). Until proven guilty, I won't raise torches against anybody.

I remember the "This is it" tour making headlines and, prior to that, a few remakes/collaborations with popular artists.

Try This M!ssundaztood

I agree about Mariah. Not only did she drastically changed her image and vocal style, but she also transitioned from pop to R&B/ Hip Hop while also alienating a big part of her original audience. What makes it so special is the story behind it. One of the boldest, riskiest and most genuine statement in mainstream music that put her against the most powerful man in the music industry at the time who, later, tried to destroy her in retaliation (almost succeeding)...all in the name of artistic Freedom. On top of that, it produced what is generally considered her magnus opus... In short, it wasn' just a calculated wig change and a temporary/convenient pop-to-a-slightly-different-type-of-pop transition.

A "peak" is a single moment in time and Celine, with MHWGO, dominated both the music and the movie industry at the same time. Mariah's peak, albeit huge, was only limited to the music industry. When it comes to female singers, Whitney and Celine win hands down this competition precisely because their success transcended their own domain.

MJ definitely could dance.

Dumbed-down coreographies specifically tailored for clumsy popstars is not real dance...Just like most of your beloved popstars are not real vocalists either. There's a reason as to why commercial pop music is so looked down upon.

What popstars do on stage is not real dance.

The father of modern popular music.

In sports there's actual competition and a sense of belonging.

I'm sorry to hear that but this is something that already happens in virtually every big enough country out there. There's some discrimination towards certain groups of people for one reason or another everywhere. In my case, there's discrimination towards the people from the south of the country and their cultures. People tend to forget that Europe does have incredibly old cultures but relatively new political borders that don't necessarily follow historical ethnic boundaries. Does that justify unhindered self-determination? The solution isn't fractionation and segregation. How is society supposed to make progress that way? Again, we are talking about privileged people in privileged countries whose problems are nothing compared to what happens in most of the World. And, yes, Greenlanders do need Denmark if they don't want to became the 51st state of the US.

Europe is full of separatist movements carried on by people who believe in ethnostates. Most of them happen to belong to autonomous regions already, just like Greenland. I fully support the right of self-determination when it's justified. When minorities are actually oppressed and/or exploited. But, if you are extremely privileged and still push for self-determination just for the sake of it, without caring about the consequences of destibilizing the economies of an entire emisphere, well...that's where I draw the line. And I do live in one of these regions. I just need to drive 20 minutes in any direction to find people who speak different dialects (de-facto standalone mutually unintelligible languages). Another example, there's this region in the northern part of my country where a small minority still pushes for self-determination. They are obviously autonomous, speak their own fully recognized language, they keep their own traditions and they even pay less taxes compared to the rest of the country. Thanks to these privileges, they are wealthy and much better off than they would be on their own. You can find people who don't love their own country everywhere around the globe, regardless of their ethnicity or wealth.

I'm not sure about that... Bjork is advocating for greenlandic independence when Denmark's protection is the sole reason the US hasn't claimed them yet. Greenland wouldn't last a day by itself. Not to mention that we aren't talking about an oppressed minority in some war-torn land. Greenland is an automous region in one of the wealthiest and safest countries with some of the highest living standards in the World. Imagine destroying stable economies because of anachronistic ethno-isolationism rethoric. We are in freaking 2026 and different cultures can peacefully coexist. Denmark, in addition, has only to gain from american soldiers operating on their soil since, this way, their are letting someone else spend major resourses to defend their own land. Governments aren't physical persons but abstract entities that only think about their own gain, whether in terms of wealth or mere international prestige. There's not a single country out there that operate out of pure generosity. European countries, in fact, let the US build bases on their land not because they are cute and polite but because they benefit from it in terms of defence (as long as the US remains an ally).

1 - Music is art and art is subjective 2 - There's a vast and diverse musical universe boyond formulaic pop music.

When artists remake old songs, they build new arrangements from scratch and, sometimes, they even add brand new sections and lyrics yet they still don't claim writing credits. Demos are basically the same thing but certain singers are more honest than others. Whitney Houston, for instance, notoriously used to make little tweaks here and there on top of creating her own vocal arrangaments by herself. She never claimed writing credits for that.

Of course being able to write your own songs and create art is considered overrated here... ...and then you wonder why nobody with a minimum of musical culture takes pop and pop stars seriously.

True. Her "experimentation" is limited only to her visuals and image. Musically she's always been a trend chaser and even her most "avant-garde" album, as you said, is a mere consequence of the indie electronic wave of the mid 90's. Mariah, on the other hand, is the perfect opposite. Innovative musically and vocally but inoffensive image wise.

Well, "stans" are extremists by definition. if you dare to deviate even slightly from their idea of perfection, then you are a terrible person who deserves to die. Not exactly the most accepting group of people out there

Well, it seems some people here are too young and never experienced a peak when music still was one of the leading industries out there. Tens of millions of actual albums and singles sold in a single year, people lining up outside the stores, pop stars constantly appearing and performing in every major TV shows around the globe, massive cultural dominance trenscending age demographics and inescapable hits standing the test of time. Now it's all about arbitrary convertion factors that don't make any sense between systems that have nothing to do with each others, overpriced tickets, endless re-releases and music nobody seem to remember.

Madonna > Gaga > Taylor I wasn't alive during Madonna's but her numbers speak for themselves. The music industry was at its peak and the biggest pop stars were inescapable. Their power, reach and influence were unmatched. Gaga during her debut had it all. Sales, controversy, drama...she was everywhere. Taylor's dominating an industry that's a shell of its former self. Adele is the real juggernaut of the last 20 years.

The album going viral is irrelevant to me, production-wise the album is terrible. For instance, listen to Candy Bling and tell me those aren't the worst sounding finger snaps you've ever heard. And don't get me started on her robotic/smoker's tone. It's a shame beacause the music and the lyrics are actually really really good. One of her best album in that regard

MOAIA could've been a great album...if it wasn't for the awful production and Mariah's vocal conditions at the time.

But I thought her music wasn't all that because some american journalist in the 90's didn't give her albums nearly perfect scores. Seriously, at this point I've lost count of how many musicians of all kind have praised Mariah and her catalogue throughout the years.

She definitely was energenic in her prime. And yes, she's no Beyoncé because she's not that type of "high budget" performer. The spectacle doesn't suit her style.