18 minutes ago, Virgos Groove said:

I'll never get the hatred for Chartmasters. They aren't perfect, but they're the closest to a complete source we have. And, unlike a lot of other sources, they differentiate between albums, physical singles, digital singles, etc.

 

At least we're past the days of using Mediatraffic.

Mediatraffic truly was the pits

1 hour ago, By the Water said:

CM being a swiftie now when we were the first fanbase to clash with him

 

Your faves are flops, deal with it

 

The fact that they're trying to spin this narrative... Like WHERE have they been in the last years? 

 

6 minutes ago, Cruel Summer said:

I don't get it either. People honestly just seem mad because updated methodology favors artists they hate. Like, the site's literal tagline right now is "one step closer to being accurate" - they know they're not perfect. We may never have a foolproof comprehensive source for consumption data for all major artists - sites like this are doing literally the best that's currently possible for anyone who isn't a major label data analyst (if such a job even exists, and even then it's probably limited to just one label unless it's a consulting firm with a large range of contracts).

It’s mostly hatred for MJD, I think. He used to spend his days hating on certain pop stars (Janet Jackson and Britney Spears) and pushing Michael Jackson and Beyonce propaganda. He’s actually a pretty nice guy and I think he’s toned it down on the fan wars, but some of the things he does makes me think he has a bias for artists of a certain time period (inflating digital stats and then way overinflating streaming numbers).

2 minutes ago, Eternium said:

He’s actually a pretty nice guy and I think he’s toned it down on the fan wars, but some of the things he does makes me think he has a bias for artists of a certain time period (inflating digital stats and then way overinflating streaming numbers).

How is he overinflating streaming compared to, say, Billboard's and IFPI's SEA methodologies? 

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by The Music Industry

Where do they get Spotify streams for songs not in the top 200?

14 minutes ago, The Music Industry said:

How is he overinflating streaming compared to, say, Billboard's and IFPI's SEA methodologies? 

People really are just saying anything because, if anything, he underestimates compared to them  

Just now, The Music Industry said:

How is he overinflating streaming compared to, say, RIAA's and IFPI's SEA methodologies? 

For a quick example, he uses Genie streams as a stat. Notably, South Korea is known for fraudulent platform streams - the charts actually freeze overnight during “zombie hours” when boy group fandoms leave multiple devices/tabs/browsers on repeat to try and manipulate real-time charts. To combat fake streams, South Korea’s official chart system authenticates streams and certifies a song for every 100M streams it gets.

 

For example, Boy With Luv is certified for 300M streams, meaning it has a total above 300M streams but below 400M in South Korea. The biggest chart in South Korea is Melon and “Boy With Luv” has 600M streams there as of February 2023. ChartMasters used 159M Genie streams from June 2022 and extrapolated them based on how big South Korea’s market is (meaning using Melon’s unfiltered stats). But the thing is, we can see that that one song alone has 400M fabricated streams just from two platforms in Korea (that’s 400k album equivalents in South Korea).

 

And now, CM is upping the strength of YouTube streams and Chinese streams because they’re less fraudulent than they used to be, but what he should really be doing is lowering the strength of Spotify as their CEO just announced that they have been accepting higher royalties in exchange for payola since 2020.

There’s plenty of countries with official certifications updated automatically. I don’t know why it’s so hard just to use them and not these fan sites??? 

17 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

Where do they get Spotify streams for songs not in the top 200?

If you’re on the desktop version, you can hover over the popularity bar and see play counts for any songs.

3 minutes ago, Holiest Dreams said:

People really are just saying anything because, if anything, he underestimates compared to them  

ChartMasters themselves put out how they want to increase the strength of streams.

 

https://chartmasters.org/tuning-of-the-cspc-formula/

 

We live in an era where you can go to any “(Artist Name Here) Streaming” account and they give you tips on how to add 20,000 unfiltered streams a day to a song from just one device and nothing is being done to limit fraudulent streaming - instead Spotify is openly offering to Autoplay songs in an exchange for higher royalties. Why would we INCREASE the influence of streaming when it’s just becoming passive radio play for most listeners as opposed to active listening?

 

 

Why don’t y’all just use official sources with access to data instead of fans guesswork  trying to formulate and compile all these different ways of music consumption across time especially without the REAL NUMBERS is not gonna work  especially with some biased stan doing all the calculations

2 minutes ago, FENTY. said:

There’s plenty of countries with official certifications updated automatically. I don’t know why it’s so hard just to use them and not these fan sites??? 

Mte. Let the experts do what they do instead like

Just now, FENTY. said:

There’s plenty of countries with official certifications updated automatically. I don’t know why it’s so hard just to use them and not these fan sites??? 

A lot of those automatic certifications are fabricated nonsense. Like whomever came up with the U.K.’s formula is truly a moron. I would never use their charts.

 

Plus, there’s a massive lack of uniformity. South Korea is pure sales only and physical singles are considered albums there. Japan only considers physical singles as single (they are just now adding streaming in). The U.K. makes up numbers in an attempt to stop albums with less than three hits at one time to become blockbusters. The U.S. struggled with incorporation so some of our numbers exclude YouTube, some have them at a weird rate and some of our numbers are fraudulent shipments. 

1 hour ago, supertiffany said:

so who is more credible

 

him who just GUESS

 

or those labels/institutions that has direct access to data but are called inflated??

Do these labels/institutions give us any numbers 

 

Just now, bijonse said:

Why don’t y’all just use official sources with access to data instead of fans guesswork  

Which official source gives access to global numbers 

1 minute ago, Artistofthedecade said:

Do these labels/institutions give us any numbers 

 

Which official source gives access to global numbers 

None of them. So this guy doesn’t have them either, he literally says he’s guessing for a lot of these calculations

 

 

but you know who’s NOT guessing? The people with access to real data doing real charts that are respected outside of ATRL

 

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by bijonse

Just now, bijonse said:

Why don’t y’all just use official sources with access to data instead of fans guesswork  trying to formulate and compile all these different ways of music consumption across time especially without the REAL NUMBERS is not gonna work  especially with some biased stan doing all the calculations

Can you name a publicly accessible official source that reliably compiles and regularly updates global consumption metrics across all formats for all artists? Does one actually exist? Or are we to simply trust claimed figures from record labels, or certifications such as those in the US that can be outdated by decades if labels don't feel like working with the RIAA? Sites like this fill a niche that doesn't actually exist from solely official sources.

Just now, bijonse said:

Mte. Let the experts do what they do instead like

Chart sites are not experts, sis. Billboard’s the largest one in the world and their biggest contribution to chart numbers after decades was calling stores and extrapolating numbers to guesstimate sales.
 

Even Nielsen Soundscan, the most reliable POS system globally, has issues. Look at how they struggled in Japan for over a decade. It took them 13 years before they were even close to reliable in the U.S.

5 minutes ago, Eternium said:

If you’re on the desktop version, you can hover over the popularity bar and see play counts for any songs.

ChartMasters themselves put out how they want to increase the strength of streams.

 

https://chartmasters.org/tuning-of-the-cspc-formula/

 

We live in an era where you can go to any “(Artist Name Here) Streaming” account and they give you tips on how to add 20,000 unfiltered streams a day to a song from just one device and nothing is being done to limit fraudulent streaming - instead Spotify is openly offering to Autoplay songs in an exchange for higher royalties. Why would we INCREASE the influence of streaming when it’s just becoming passive radio play for most listeners as opposed to active listening?

 

 

Aren’t those the unfiltered totals though? and not what gets reported to billboard ?

1 minute ago, Eternium said:

Chart sites are not experts, sis. Billboard’s the largest one in the world and their biggest contribution to chart numbers after decades was calling stores and extrapolating numbers to guesstimate sales.
 

Even Nielsen Soundscan, the most reliable POS system globally, has issues. Look at how they struggled in Japan for over a decade. It took them 13 years before they were even close to reliable in the U.S.

This is what's wild to me, too. I love Billboard, and considering their all-time formulas massively favor my favorite artist I have a vested interest in trusting a lot of what they say - but when people talk about whether certain sources are good enough, we almost never talk about how industry leader Billboard was once upon a time calling up Billy Bob at Joe's Record Shack in Nowhere, Idaho to ask how much Whitney Houston sold on this fine 1985 day. 

7 minutes ago, Cruel Summer said:

Can you name a publicly accessible official source that reliably compiles and regularly updates global consumption metrics across all formats for all artists? Does one actually exist? Or are we to simply trust claimed figures from record labels, or certifications such as those in the US that can be outdated by decades if labels don't feel like working with the RIAA? Sites like this fill a niche that doesn't actually exist from solely official sources.

But top 10 music martkets all have official certifications? So countries outside of top 10 don’t contribute that much sales anyways to be THAT important 

5 minutes ago, Cruel Summer said:

This is what's wild to me, too. I love Billboard, and considering their all-time formulas massively favor my favorite artist I have a vested interest in trusting a lot of what they say - but when people talk about whether certain sources are good enough, we almost never talk about how industry leader Billboard was once upon a time calling up Billy Bob at Joe's Record Shack in Nowhere, Idaho to ask how much Whitney Houston sold on this fine 1985 day. 

Ikr? Whole GENRES were underrepresented on the Billboard 200 until the early-90s. We can only imagine the impact that had on labels choosing what artists to invest on.

Edited March 16, 20233 yr by Virgos Groove

5 minutes ago, FENTY. said:

But top 10 music martkets all have official certifications? So countries outside of top 10 don’t contribute that much sales anyways to be THAT important 

In the US, for example, these certifications are not automatic and rely on the label to work with the RIAA in an audit process. In some cases, a label might not care to update their certifications often, might not update for certain artists, or might actually refuse to do so for artists who have left the label or who are on bad terms with the label. They're also still based on shipments, so they can be inflated if more physical records are produced than are actually sold. There are many problems with relying on certifications, and these are just examples from the US - there are others in other countries.

13 minutes ago, Eternium said:

Chart sites are not experts, sis. Billboard’s the largest one in the world and their biggest contribution to chart numbers after decades was calling stores and extrapolating numbers to guesstimate sales.
 

Even Nielsen Soundscan, the most reliable POS system globally, has issues. Look at how they struggled in Japan for over a decade. It took them 13 years before they were even close to reliable in the U.S.

Oh, so all charts are bullshit just like most people think, especially in todays age with 5 million different ways to consume music all of them weighted differently. This is why I think the girlies on here need to stop arguing about them so much  chartmasters is even further from accurate though now that you mention it since they’re using estimations of estimations 

CM also use official certifications as part of their estimations, and he even uses charts data to offset the shipments. I'm screaming at people here complaining about CM but don't have clue about his methodology. They just mad because their fave flop I guess 

3 hours ago, Rev8 said:

So they basically admitting to add streaming stats based on no real figures but just who seems more popular where and some certs or whatever

 

 

the way streaming acts will get a big boost

 

 

They are admitting they do exactly what a Twitter charts account do

I only use their Spotify tool, I guess that's update is cute useful if you want to be entertained