11 minutes ago, FACT said:

Bars 

 

The p word 5 seconds in... oh they're taking it

 

14 minutes ago, FACT said:

Bars 

 

 Wait what in the entire **** is this?  The young pussyyyyy chant gfdhgfdh

 

They have a 13 yo in the group this is FOUL wtf

 

2 hours ago, Sheep said:

SM releases from January(excluding digital singles or repacks of projects from last year) to May(5 month period):

•   Reveal hidden contents

  • GOT mini
  • Yesung album
  • Onew album
  • Kai EP
  • DoJaeJung mini
  • aespa mini

 

SM releases since June (excluding repacks, digital singles, or not yet released projects)(4 1/2 month period):

•   Reveal hidden contents

  • Taeyong mini
  • SHINee album
  • EXO album
  • NCT Dream album
  • Yunho mini
  • Chen Japanese mini
  • NCT album
  • Key mini
  • Kyungsoo mini
  • Yesing mini
  • 127 album
  • RIIZE debut

   

The production centers have measurably improved the pacing of releases at the company and the timing of them spinning up to full speed worked against RV. I never said that Red Velvet haven't been mismanaged in some ways or that the timing of this comeback isn't extremely unfortunate, but the FACTS are that the production centers were established to streamline the process of getting content out quicker(and so far they're doing exactly that) AND Red Velvet will essentially have an entire team to themselves like NCT once TVXQ are done with promotions.

The fact that nothing RV related appears in any of your SM release lists for this year (excl. GOT which is a separate group anyway) proves my point. These production center efficiencies you speak of have had no benefit to RV, and that's the point. Unless you hate the group, I'm not sure what your argument actually is. There's not really a viable defense for the way SM has sidelined them. 

 

RV will be up for renewal next year, so it's this year that counts the most since it's potentially their last full year as a group. The speed of other production centers mean nothing, if it has resulted in zero output for RV this year. 

 

2 hours ago, Sheep said:

I already said in the post you intentionally cut up into a strawman(just like you intentionally exaggerated the gap between R to V and 3rd album production) that none of these things have anything to do with group musical output but here goes:

I said their tour ended in June and we didn't even have a hint that a new album was coming till August, over 2 months later, not withstanding Joy being temporarily ill. There was no exaggeration. 

 

2 hours ago, Sheep said:

SM signed a contract with an unknown promoter with zero ties to the US. NCT has used the same team for their European tours but work with Live Nation in NA. Red Velvet, who still doesn't have a real US distribution deal, do not have the same connections that an NCT or aespa would. It seems like a combined case of SM underestimating Red Vevlet/Luvies as usual and a rookie tour promoter screwing things up.

Red Velvet could in theory be signed to a U.S. label at any time if SM wished, so I'm not sure how this absolves SM of any fault. Same with choosing a terrible tour promoter. This is SM's responsibility to ensure contracted services are fulfilled correctly to protect their own artists. 

 

2 hours ago, Sheep said:

We ALL know why Irene's flawless solo songs are sitting in the vault. Her finally taking endorsements again is a sippgn that they might finally see the light of day next year.

There is a point here, but Seulgi (who had some of SM's best soloist sales last year), Wendy and Joy and also Yeri could have been selected for solo comebacks or debuts. Considering their whole year has been empty, there was no logical excuse for this.

 

2 hours ago, Sheep said:

Taeyeon is more popular than RV and in the exact same boat(except her last comeback was even longer ago than Red Velvet), botched tour, solo comeback plans vanishing, etc. Even NCT went almost 6 months without a real album which is unheard of. Things were BAD at the start of this year and you're downplaying it. Even aespa had a fully finished album ready to release by February that we're still getting songs from 3 days before the RV album. Things are now improving and SM is releasing music at an unprecedented rate.

Taeyeon had a full solo album and a full group album last year and she's much further along in her career than RV who have not even reached the 10 year mark yet. At that point in her career she was receiving regular group and solo comebacks. But not withstanding this FMR was bigger than her song last year and RV as a group eclipses her in sales (their last release has sold almost 1.1M) and even Seulgi's mini reached sales of a similar level to Taeyeon's full album (241k vs. 248k on Circle). So that's debatable and not really a workable comparison. 

 

Things were bad at the start of the year, but while NCT, SHINee and EXO have churned out albums and solo releases all this year for example, RV has had nothing at all. It would take extreme levels of delusion to not see how that is simply wrong. Though, since I'm talking to a user who has rebranded themselves as "Sheep" perhaps I should have known better than to engage

 

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Zack

14 minutes ago, youresotoxic said:

 

That's an interesting response. Between this and the wings being seen on set and the Hanbok outfits potentially...I'm excited for the concept! 

26 minutes ago, Supervillain said:

 Wait what in the entire **** is this?  The young pussyyyyy chant gfdhgfdh

 

They have a 13 yo in the group this is FOUL wtf

The most controversial debut 

Their album is 11/10 You could check it out 

2 hours ago, youresotoxic said:

 

This is such a odd combo but good for them I guess

the title is pushing fake news  stranger avant garde bop

 

2 hours ago, youresotoxic said:

 

oh wow  thats weird but still   dva says shes on the next level when shes on fire sometimes so the kpop connection is present 

this group has to be the weirdest thing to come out of idol music, im kinda obsessed

 

 

 

from j-pop to hip-hop to disney princess music to screamo....?  

6 minutes ago, Odd said:

this group has to be the weirdest thing to come out of idol music, im kinda obsessed

 

 

 

from j-pop to hip-hop to disney princess music to screamo....?  

This is what JYPE were trying to go for with mixxpop

Is-is it satire?

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

The fact that nothing RV related appears in any of your SM release lists for this year (excl. GOT which is a separate group anyway) proves my point.

Let me break it down a different way for you since you're missing the point:

 

2023 SM releases by production center(counting from My World because the production centers were established in February/March and releases before that were most likely already in the pipeline with the old system)

 

PD Team 1: 2 aespa minis - 2 releases(Taeyeon will bring this up to 3 if she makes it by the end of the year)

PD Team 2: SHINee album, Key mini, Taemin mini - 3 releases

PD team 3: TVXQ album, Yunho mini, Red Velvet album - 3 releases

PD team 4: Taeyong mini, Dream album, NCT album, 127 album, WayV album - 5 releases

PD team 5: EXO album, Chen mini, Kyungsoo mini, Yesung mini - 4 releases

 

I never said that the past year hasn't been rough as a reveluv, but things are looking up. PD center 3 has the literal average number of releases for an SM Production center in 2023, and in 2024 the focus will obviously be on RV instead of TVXQ.

 

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

RV will be up for renewal next year, so it's this year that counts the most since it's potentially their last full year as a group. The speed of other production centers mean nothing, if it has resulted in zero output for RV this year. 

This was a bad year for basically every group at SM. Also Red Velvet will renew, SM needs them because they're the most consistent hitmakers out of all their groups and their sales are only climbing, SM will do basically anything to keep that going. It's another doomer luvie narrative I'm getting tired of.

 

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

I said their tour ended in June and we didn't even have a hint that a new album was coming till August, over 2 months later, not withstanding Joy being temporarily ill. There was no exaggeration.

This is not true. The comeback planning meetings started Aug 1st at the LATEST. The tour ended on June 6. It was an 8 week gap, 5 if you account for Joy's condition as the start of group activities being feasible again. June 6 - Aug 1 is less than 2 months, but you made it out to be much longer than 2 months.

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

Red Velvet could in theory be signed to a U.S. label at any time if SM wished, so I'm not sure how this absolves SM of any fault. Same with choosing a terrible tour promoter. This is SM's responsibility to ensure contracted services are fulfilled correctly to protect their own artists. 

I was not defending SM's terrible decision, I was explaining how we got in this scenario that in your mind has clearly been constructed as some heinous plot against Red Velvet but in reality was down to bad timing and a single bad contract.

 

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

There is a point here, but Seulgi (who had some of SM's best soloist sales last year), Wendy and Joy and also Yeri could have been selected for solo comebacks or debuts. Considering their whole year has been empty, there was no logical excuse for this.

 

I have no idea why Yeri hasn't been allowed to debut yet but rumors are finally coming up about it so it must be on somebody's radar now.

 

Red Velvet came back in November 2022, promoted into december, participated in the SMCU winter album + concert, then Seulgi and Wendy started preparations for GOT. Concert tours take weeks of constant rehearsals so the only truly dead months for Red Velvet were February + part of March, when the company was going through an unprecedented crisis(that included YYJ and LSM both leaving at the same time, taking all of their music contributions with them). 

 

A lot of reveluv, including + especially yourself, are acting like Red Velvet are getting the f(x) treatment, which just isn't true, there was multiple instances of bad timing this year but there has been a huge commitment to their music going forward and a 3rd full album from a group that has been spamming minis for 5 years is a big show of good faith towards us and to the members. 

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

Taeyeon had a full solo album and a full group album last year and she's much further along in her career than RV who have not even reached the 10 year mark yet. At that point in her career she was receiving regular group and solo comebacks. But not withstanding this FMR was bigger than her song last year and RV as a group eclipses her in sales (their last release has sold over 1.1M) and even Seulgi's mini reached sales over a similar level to Taeyeon's full album. So that's debatable and not really a workable comparison. 

Mother Yawn debuted in October 2015 and is the only SM act who does better with singles domestically than Red Velvet and is also the only artist at that company right now with a drop of appeal outside of the regular idol group audience. She got 1 album last year. Red Velvet got 2 minis + Seulgi's solo. No amount of trying to frame Taeyeon as especially well-treated is going to change the facts. She has more circle points, less comebacks in either this year or last, an even more laughable tour, and this is all despite her REMARKABLE popularity for an idol of her age/seniority.

 

56 minutes ago, Zack said:

Things were bad at the start of the year, but while NCT, SHINee and EXO have churned out albums and solo releases all this year for example, RV has had nothing at all. It would take extreme levels of delusion to not see how that is simply wrong. Though, since I'm talking to a user who has rebranded themselves as "Sheep" perhaps I should have known better than to engage

Red Velvet, like every other group at SM entertainment except for SNSD or aespa, will end the year having released a single full album. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be. 

 

If we collectively spent half as much energy supporting Red Velvet as we do playing the victim in all scenarios since debut, the group would have sold more records than the Beatles ffs.

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Sheep

3 hours ago, Sailor Moon said:

2023 was a cute year for kpop, although 2022 was WAY better

 

- Jungkook solo debut, managed to get an actual smash hit.

- V solo debut

- NewJeans, IVE and (G)-IDLE continue to dominate.

- aespa best selling girl group album this year, and snatches a hit.

- oh my girl flops

- fifty fifty gets the biggest kpop girl group smash

- twice fails to get a hit

- kep1er nowhere to be seen

- blackpink performs at coachella

- zerobaseone debuts

- itzy gets a semi-hit

- somi wins and gets an actual hit

- stayc manages to get a cute hit, still can't dominate (no shade).

- sm debuts riize

- yg forgets about babymonster

- exo actually gets a comeback

Let’s google…

4 hours ago, Sheep said:

I thought I was the only one. Nothing like taking backshots to this soundtrack :

 

The way they sing ooo like an alien 👽 sets the perfect mood. 

The fact they came out with a song for bottoms AND a song for their top fans:

 

10 minutes ago, katyberry said:

Let’s google…

a #22 peaking song, well it did flop a bit, that's why i wrote semi.

at least it's not a total flop like Cheshire 

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Sailor Moon

1 minute ago, bunnyeyes said:

The fact they came out with a song for bottoms AND a song for their top fans:

 

A truly versatile girl group. 

exo is kinda the bg with the best discography, no only their singles are flawless but their albums are solid too 

call me baby 

growl 

tempo 

the eve 

miracles in december 

overdose 

monster 

love me right 

 

no but truly 

24 minutes ago, bunnyeyes said:

Is-is it satire?

 

Another day another group of CL wannabes 

2 minutes ago, Sheep said:

 

Another day another group of CL wannabes 

They actually said that 2NE1 are their role models so the similarities make sense 

1 minute ago, Flomik said:

They actually said that 2NE1 are their role models so the similarities make sense 

Let me token stan, the taste that has 

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Sheep

33 minutes ago, Sailor Moon said:

exo is kinda the bg with the best discography, no only their singles are flawless but their albums are solid too 

call me baby 

growl 

tempo 

the eve 

miracles in december 

overdose 

monster 

love me right 

 

the last bg i really stanned tbh

 

eating her own man UP

 

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

I never said that the past year hasn't been rough as a reveluv, but things are looking up. PD center 3 has the literal average number of releases for an SM Production center in 2023, and in 2024 the focus will obviously be on RV instead of TVXQ.

That is a huge assumption and from your response it appears you agree PC3 has spent more time prioritizing less profitable (now) TVXQ releases over RV. Again, proves my point. 

 

It's useless driving this point that the production centers are more efficient if it's bypassing RV, which it is at this moment, with no guarantee that it will change. There is no "obvious" indication that they will prioritize RV next year, unless you can share the source of this information with us. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

 

This was a bad year for basically every group at SM. Also Red Velvet will renew, SM needs them because they're the most consistent hitmakers out of all their groups and their sales are only climbing, SM will do basically anything to keep that going. It's another doomer luvie narrative I'm getting tired of.

Again another huge assumption to assume they will all renew, unless you have concrete information you can share with all of us. I never said they won't all renew, but it's delusional to take a line that the girls have no concerns or aren't thinking of leaving. This year was an important year to them, which if anything, has probably given members more reasons to want to think about leaving, and I wouldn't blame them for it.

 

As you say, RV are consistent with growing sales. Yet SM has not invested in them in a way that reflects this. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

 

This is not true. The comeback planning meetings started Aug 1st at the LATEST. The tour ended on June 6. It was an 8 week gap, 5 if you account for Joy's condition as the start of group activities being feasible again.

I was not defending SM's terrible decision, I was explaining how we got in this scenario that in your mind has clearly been constructed as some heinous plot against Red Velvet but in reality was down to bad timing and a single bad contract.

I think you are perhaps taking your new username a little too literally. You were defending the indefensible here and trying to explain away serious problems that are indisputably the fault of SM. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

 

I have no idea why Yeri hasn't been allowed to debut yet but rumors are finally coming up about it so it must be on somebody's radar now.

 

Red Velvet came back in November 2022, promoted into december, participated in the SMCU winter album + concert, then Seulgi and Wendy started preparations for GOT. Concert tours take weeks of constant rehearsals so the only truly dead months for Red Velvet were February + part of March, when the company was going through an unprecedented crisis(that included YYJ and LSM both leaving at the same time, taking all of their music contributions with them). 

Birthday was incredibly botched and that's a whole other story to go into. Reveluvs were rightly extremely unhappy which is why the fanbase (plus MYs) largely boycotted the GOT release as a result, which related in GOT flopping when on paper it could have had much bigger sales. RV fanbases and cafes openly cited the poor handling of Birthday as a reason. Plus Irenebar, the RV fanbase with the biggest influence, was also upset by everything. 

 

This year PC3 has spent more time churning out TVXQ releases and have forced RV to clash with other groups. Again, no excuse for doing this. They've had nearly an entire year to plan. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

A lot of reveluv, including + especially yourself, are acting like Red Velvet are getting the f(x) treatment, which just isn't true, there was multiple instances of bad timing this year but there has been a huge commitment to their music going forward and a 3rd full album from a group that has been spamming minis for 5 years is a big show of good faith towards us and to the members. 

Red Velvet are obviously not getting the f(x) treatment. The issue is they are being held back from being bigger. 

 

You've openly admitted that the tour was planned horribly, that they have not benefited from SM 3.0 so far, and that SM has been making questionable decisions for them all year and their soloists have been ignored, see Wendy getting scrapped. Yet they are one of SM's best performing acts on Spotify, have shown large sales increases and have a big fanbase and GP support. 

 

That's not doomsaying that's just disappointment at SM constantly doing this to the group. If you can't admit this, I'd question how much you really claim to stan them. They don't deserve that level of mismanagement.

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

Red Velvet, like every other group at SM entertainment except for SNSD or aespa, will end the year having released a single full album. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be. 

aespa is better off because they'll have had 2 full scale mini promotions plus an actual world tour by the end of this year, plus global promotions and they deserve that. But RV deserves better treatment also.  

 

All your lists have proven is the inequity and imbalance in the way SM gives resources and that's why RV fans are so upset. It's not a difficult concept to grasp. 

 

9 minutes ago, Sheep said:

If we collectively spent half as much energy supporting Red Velvet as we do playing the victim in all scenarios since debut, the group would have sold more records than the Beatles ffs.

I own every album and attended their concerts and follow everything they do. So you can leave me out of that. Perhaps if you spent less time glossing over SM's issues online and actually looked into the facts (rather than making assumptions and labelling genuine fan concern as doomsaying) you'd see the very clear point that I and many others have been making, instead of blaming the fans for SM's failures, which is very disappointing conclusion for you to make.