fan base Beyoncé

[Queenyoncee]

not What Was Mufasa Made For 

 

[Queenyoncee]

Just now, Shelter said:

Shame she didn't collab on A Bar Song. 

Maybe her Remix era is coming back 

[Burn]

Shaboozey's album is out on May 31 and tracklist is not yet out, maybe I'm clowning but I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that Bey is on there.

[swissman]

3 hours ago, yonsé said:

she is rafiki. its not that crazy or avant-garde lol...she watches over simba through the whole movie just like rafiki, who is played by a woman in the broadway show.

 

that information doesn't change that the story is VERY well known (it is Hamlet, after all), so doing an interpretation of it is going to bring about criticism if it isn't executed properly. and it wasn't. im not afraid to say that. i love the find your way back and my power videos. it has some of her best visual work ever. but it isn't her best visual album as a whole.

 

i would quickly watch lemonade before black is king. it feels more cinematic and less like a collage of shots. and that's not to say black is king didn't do some things right. it is visually a bonanza. the styling was amazing. Zerina did her big one. but it does not hold together as a singular product. i skip in between to the music videos when i watch it. i don't care to listen to her poems, wheras in Lemonade, the poems HEIGHTEN the impact of the songs. that just does not happen here. 

That's not what I meant at all and that's not how I interpreted it. And I don't think Beyoncé is revealed to be Rafiki.

 

 

I'm talking about the connections between BIGGER, OTHERSIDE and SPIRIT that reveal the mother figure in the white tattered dress from the beginning of the film is actually a spirit.

 

In BIGGER we see her on the beach at what looks like a sort of baptism/ritual. We also see her alone, sort of wandering, but also with a child, not a baby. When you see it from the start, it feels like she's simply guiding him through life as his mother, but in Otherside we see a woman with the same hairstyle (in a film with MANY hairstyles this seems like an important distinction) place her baby in a basket on the river in order to attempt to save him, knowing the fate she'll have, hoping to see him again on the "otherside", which we then see happens later when an adult man ascends and we next see a woman in a glorious white dress receive a baby in a basket floating on peaceful water. This implies a connection between these two scenes, as this mother is receiving her child in the afterlife as she last left him.

 

Then a few songs later in Spirit see the woman in the tattered white dress standing next to Simba and Nala as he raises his child as she looks on proudly. This being the very the last moment of the film, it clearly has significance. Bringing back this woman in the exact same outfit seems to say she's one of the many ancestors watching Simba. There is also another moment in the film where Beyoncé plays a parental figure who dies, so the fact that it's THIS version of her that appears there is significant. It's not what how she appears in NILE, it's the woman from BIGGER.

On top of that the act of her putting the baby on the river being a probable Moses reference implies the baby goes onto be a King, as well, which ties into the larger story that Black is King...that there is kingship in Blackness itself, and/or would suggest that this is how Simba's family got to be kings in the first place.

This is not at all in the play from what I can remember, and certainly not in the film and isn't anything like what Rafiki did for Simba. Overall it adds a layered storyline which I find quite compelling. It took my second viewing to really catch on and notice all the symbols and call-backs, but it seems pretty clear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29 by swissman

[yonsé]

36 minutes ago, ScorpiosGroove said:

my biggest fear is enduring years of waiting for the visuals only for people to end up saying the same thing about them 

this is why i truly believe this one will be more of an actual film with dialogue and the music acting more as a soundtrack. i think the attention span for that many videos isnt gonna work, and that is why i think we didnt get whatever renaissance film was finished in 2022.

[Blue Rose]

24 minutes ago, Queenyoncee said:

not What Was Mufasa Made For 

 

They could've said Otherside, but these new fan pages don't listen to Bey  

[yonsé]

12 minutes ago, swissman said:

That's not what I meant at all and that's not how I interpreted it. And I don't think Beyoncé is revealed to be Rafiki.

 

 

I'm talking about the connections between BIGGER, OTHERSIDE and SPIRIT that reveal the mother figure in the white tattered dress from the beginning of the film is actually a spirit.

 

In BIGGER we see her on the beach at what looks like a sort of baptism/ritual. We also see her alone, sort of wandering, but also with a child, not a baby. When you see it from the start, it feels like she's simply guiding him through life as his mother, but in Otherside we see a woman with the same hairstyle (in a film with MANY hairstyles this seems like an important distinction) place her baby in a basket on the river in order to attempt to save him, knowing the fate she'll have, hoping to see him again on the "otherside", which we then see happens later when an adult man ascends and we next see a woman in a glorious white dress receive a baby in a basket floating on peaceful water. This implies a connection between these two scenes, as this mother is receiving her child in the afterlife as she last left him.

 

Then a few songs later in Spirit see the woman in the tattered white dress standing next to Simba and Nala as he raises his child as she looks on proudly. This being the very the last moment of the film, it clearly has significance. Bringing back this woman in the exact same outfit seems to say she's one of the many ancestors watching Simba. There is also another moment in the film where Beyoncé plays a parental figure who dies, so the fact that it's THIS version of her that appears there is significant. It's not what how she appears in NILE, it's the woman from BIGGER.

On top of that the act of her putting the baby on the river being a probable Moses reference implies the baby goes onto be a King, as well, which ties into the larger story that Black is King...that there is kingship in Blackness itself, and/or would suggest that this is how Simba's family got to be kings in the first place.

This is not at all in the play from what I can remember, and certainly not in the film and isn't anything like what Rafiki did for Simba. Overall it adds a layered storyline which I find quite compelling. It took my second viewing to really catch on and notice all the symbols and call-backs, but it seems pretty clear.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKGIw-L1-WY

 

 

the baby is simba. and the boy she is walking with is also simba. there is a break in the song at 2:11 during BIGGER before it cuts to the kid simba. he is the same character. that is literally just time progressing. in the lion king this happens between circle of life and the cut after the title card. it jumps ahead to simba being a child from a baby. she continues to watch over him as a guardian angel. that is rafiki's job as a spiritual mystic. the 'OTHERSIDE' part is her character's backstory. we find out she had a baby at one point and he died. we also figure out that rafiki can bounce between the human and non-human realms, and we know rafiki is able to do this in The Lion King as well, its just not executed the same way. i think you are conflating its inability to properly get the story across with deeper meaning that isn't really there. it just goes to show how muddled it really is as a film. too many ideas. but i digress.

Edited April 29 by yonsé

[ScorpiosGroove]

3 minutes ago, yonsé said:

this is why i truly believe this one will be more of an actual film with dialogue and the music acting more as a soundtrack. i think the attention span for that many videos isnt gonna work, and that is why i think we didnt get whatever renaissance film was finished in 2022.

same i've always felt like the next logical step in her visuals would be more actual acting and i mean her music video / on stage acting has always been pretty good and seems even more confident these days (as confirmed by the verizon ad) 

 

and it's not like she has to act every scene herself like there'll obviously be dancers, actors and celeb cameos

 

i honestly find this featuring the music as a soundtrack more appealing than another hour long film full of pretty gowns and stoical poses 

[QueenB]

1 hour ago, Kingdom said:

do you just wake up angry and bitter? girl

I can pull up plenty of recent positive posts I've made in this thread, how far back would you have to go to find one of yours I wonder? And no, calling people who criticize Beyoncé "slow" or to be fans of someone else doesn't count

 

[yonsé]

5 minutes ago, ScorpiosGroove said:

same i've always felt like the next logical step in her visuals would be more actual acting and i mean her music video / on stage acting has always been pretty good and seems even more confident these days (as confirmed by the verizon ad) 

 

and it's not like she has to act every scene herself like there'll obviously be dancers, actors and celeb cameos

 

i honestly find this featuring the music as a soundtrack more appealing than another hour long film full of pretty gowns and stoical poses 

totally agreed. her take on a Purple Rain type film. 

 

it would be amazing

[swissman]

3 hours ago, yonsé said:

that information doesn't change that the story is VERY well known (it is Hamlet, after all), so doing an interpretation of it is going to bring about criticism if it isn't executed properly. and it wasn't. im not afraid to say that. i love the find your way back and my power videos. it has some of her best visual work ever. but it isn't her best visual album as a whole.

The Lion King may be based on Hamlet but Black is King is not based on Hamlet, it is based on The Lion King.

 

Black is King is not focused on drama, political intrigue, familial machinations, jealousy, hunger for power, etc. It doesn't even try to be. Instead, Black is King shifts the focus of the story to the concept of The Circle of Life which it took from The Lion King, and which to my knowledge does not exist at all in Hamlet. And imo it does so successfully. If we are going to appraise its success or failure, we shouldn't measuring it against something it's not even trying to be.

It's why I praise the film's layered storytelling, the metaphysical concepts, the uplifting of parenthood and the respect/awe of ancestors. I think to fault Black is KIng because it didn't execute the story of Hamlet or even The Lion King properly is unfair when the film's thesis has nothing to do with either. It merely uses the iconic story to explain her actual points about Black heritage and heritage in general. We even see this in the lyrics, which are more about the awe and majesty of parental love and personal power than an attempt to advance plot.

[family.guy123]

Mufasa, simba, nala, rafiki all the same to me plain Jane spaghetti 

[Shelter]

I don't get why people are mad about it though, she will barely be in this, and it's good they asked her back and didn't replace her, that wouldn't have been a good look. She will probably have a song on the soundtrack and that's it. Screaming The Gift pt 2 is coming  … like come on, that is not realistic. 
 

She will definitely be at the premiere because of Blue Ivy, so there is that. 

[yonsé]

10 minutes ago, swissman said:

The Lion King may be based on Hamlet but Black is King is not based on Hamlet, it is based on The Lion King.

 

Black is King is not focused on drama, political intrigue, familial machinations, jealousy, hunger for power, etc. It doesn't even try to be. Instead, Black is King shifts the focus of the story to the concept of The Circle of Life which it took from The Lion King, and which to my knowledge does not exist at all in Hamlet. And imo it does so successfully. If we are going to appraise its success or failure, we shouldn't measuring it against something it's not even trying to be.

It's why I praise the film's layered storytelling, the metaphysical concepts, the uplifting of parenthood and the respect/awe of ancestors. I think to fault Black is KIng because it didn't execute the story of Hamlet or even The Lion King properly is unfair when the film's thesis has nothing to do with either. It merely uses the iconic story to explain her actual points about Black heritage and heritage in general. We even see this in the lyrics, which are more about the awe and majesty of parental love and personal power than an attempt to advance plot.

you are absolutely allowed to praise the film. i think its clunky and overwrought and that's why no one watched it after the first viewing. 

 

also your first statement makes no sense. if a=b and b=c, then a=c....scar kills mufasa and simba runs away but his ancestors get him to fight his uncle scar and take back his throne. this literally happens in black is king as well. so idk what you mean by no political intrigue when all of that is the basis of this film.

 

but imma let u have it sis

Edited April 29 by yonsé

[yonsé]

7 minutes ago, Shelter said:

Screaming The Gift pt 2 is coming  … like come on, that is not realistic. 

yall didnt think she would launch act ii during a super bowl commercial either. most of y'all thought there wasn't even gonna be an act ii.

 

nothing she does has a rhyme or reason. as long as there is a check involved she'll do what she wants. and if there were reports of her working on afrobeats music, then you can bet shes doing SOME sort of music for this

[Shelter]

4 minutes ago, yonsé said:

yall didnt think she would launch act ii during a super bowl commercial either. most of y'all thought there wasn't even gonna be an act ii.

 

nothing she does has a rhyme or reason. as long as there is a check involved she'll do what she wants. and if there were reports of her working on afrobeats music, then you can bet shes doing SOME sort of music for this

We knew act 2 was coming though, some questioned it because it was taking forever. She is not going to do a pt 2 when the first didn't do much. Working on something doesn't mean it's coming out either, just like the 5 songs Kacey worked on. 1 or 2 songs on the soundtrack is all I see happening, but we'll see. 
 

Also what if the song is good? The last movie was so loved, it was never going to live up to that and any new music was going to stand out negatively. 
 

I do find it funny how none of us seen this coming. I didn't even think about her being in the 2nd one. 

[swissman]

14 minutes ago, yonsé said:

the baby is simba. and the boy she is walking with is also simba. there is a break in the song at 2:11 during BIGGER before it cuts to the kid simba. he is the same character. that is literally just time progressing. in the lion king this happens between circle of life and the cut after the title card. it jumps ahead to simba being a child from a baby. she continues to watch over him as a guardian angel. that is rafiki's job as a spiritual mystic. the 'OTHERSIDE' part is her character's backstory. we find out she had a baby at one point and he died. we also figure out that rafiki can bounce between the human and non-human realms, and we know rafiki is able to do this in The Lion King as well, its just not executed the same way. i think you are conflating its inability to properly get the story across with deeper meaning that isn't really there. it just goes to show how muddled it really is as a film. too many ideas. but i digress.

I don't interpret it this way nor do I think that two people interpreting a work differently means there is an "inability to properly get the story across". Many great works are debated by academics because the author has purposely left it open to some interpretation as their artistic intention. And I don't think Beyoncé here thought she was giving us some clear, linear storyline, as that's not at all what occurs in the actual film, not even close.

 

I also didn't claim the baby/child at the start are not Simba, but that the mother figured there is not Simba's mother. I guess we are saying the same thing. You are interpreting her as Rafiki and I'm interpreting her as an ancestor of Simba. Both of us are saying she's watching over Simba. There is another actress who plays a Rafiki character though, so I'm not sure how much I'm willing to say that Beyoncé is playing her too, though I guess she could be the younger version and takes that form when she's in the spirit realm as well. However none of this is in the film or the play, so I'm confused about why you think this isn't something new Beyoncé added to give further meaning to her thesis. This particular back and forth came because I was praising the meaning and intervention she added through this character.

 

I also don't think it's clear whether or not the baby in the basket died. We see it precariously go near a waterfall, which could imply that it does, but the next scene is a fully grown man (Simba actor) ascending to the Otherside which would imply that the waterfall was not the end of the baby's fate. Beyoncé receives the baby in the basket which could imply it was, but then why have the man ascending right between those two scenes?

 

The fact that it's the same actor who plays Simba who ascends, and then we later see him sitting on a throne with his own baby suggests that there's no intention whatsoever to make this into a linear story where histories and even characters are not layered so that many tales and versions of the story are being told at once. I don't think that the Simba actor necessarily is always portraying Simba, just as Beyoncé factually is not always portraying Nala (given we see her as Beyoncé too with her actual family in the film), just as Jay-Z plays an older, aspirational vision Simba has of himself, but also Beyoncé's partner in those scenes, while also Simba's mother. And then in Spirit we have several different depictions of families with children. All in all, it can get confusing, but I think this is what I adore about it. I guess I'm appreciating it for its liquidity while you want it to be more rigid storytelling.

[cuteboyzay]

2 hours ago, Kristie Kuwa said:

This whole mystery **** is SO ANNOYING

I honestly dgaf about the mysterious sh*t. What I DO care about is the lack of promo AFTER the f*cking mystery is revealed.
 

As if no one already didn't know what the song was before it was announced. Now you wanna NOT promote something that wasn't already promoted to begin with!? PLEEASSSEEE!!! 

[swissman]

42 minutes ago, yonsé said:

you are absolutely allowed to praise the film. i think its clunky and overwrought and that's why no one watched it after the first viewing. 

 

also your first statement makes no sense. if a=b and b=c, then a=c....scar kills mufasa and simba runs away but his ancestors get him to fight his uncle scar and take back his throne. this literally happens in black is king as well. so idk what you mean by no political intrigue when all of that is the basis of this film.

 

but imma let u have it sis

My statement makes perfect sense.

 

Hamlet and The Lion King may tell the same basic story, but are not the same. So if Beyoncé is repurposing one specific angle from an interpretation of the original material (specifically the circle of life theme), then "a" does not equal "c" because "b" is actually "a+x".

 

My point about the political intrigue was not that the story points were not in the film but that they are not the focus of the film either in screen time, nor in its thesis. It's very much tertiary to the overall point of Black is King. Shakespeare's play has much to do with political intrigue and inner machinations. Black is King is not a film about succession or desire for the throne, even if that is present. It's a film about ancestry, heritage, family love, etc. This is what I mean when I say they are different. Hamlet inspired The Lion King, The Lion King inspired Black is King. That doesn't mean Black is King is Hamlet. It just means it shares aspects of its plot.

 

Again, I think you trying to say it doesn't live up to Hamlet, being two degrees of separation away and not even trying to replicate Hamlet is an unfair critique.

 

 

Edited April 29 by swissman

[swissman]

47 minutes ago, Shelter said:

I don't get why people are mad about it though, she will barely be in this, and it's good they asked her back and didn't replace her, that wouldn't have been a good look. She will probably have a song on the soundtrack and that's it. Screaming The Gift pt 2 is coming  … like come on, that is not realistic. 
 

She will definitely be at the premiere because of Blue Ivy, so there is that. 

ya I don't understand why people think The Gift 2 is possible considering she is NOT someone to repeat herself and I believe has even said as much...and even this era of acts is defined by her NOT repeating herself...

 

 

Edited April 29 by swissman

[swissman]

52 minutes ago, yonsé said:

totally agreed. her take on a Purple Rain type film. 

 

it would be amazing

YES! I want to see her in theatres too!

 

 

[Blue Rose]

 

[FLAallday]

 

Hive is starting to lose it 

 

[cloudbusting]

in a just world, this replaced Halo as her signature ballad 

[QueenB]

2 minutes ago, FLAallday said:

 

Hive is starting to lose it 

 

The angle of her from a distance please