ariesjow

I've talked to them about this. They're fully aware of his weaknesses in debates, but I don't think they feel there's a viable alternative to him. They still think he's the most electable. You also have to tread lightly with mental acuity arguments with them because they think you're just bashing him because of his age. It's just a sad situation, but I think they've already settled on Biden.

You can directly quote me. I'm a big boy. And I meant if Harris was actually a stronger candidate like everyone initially anticipated. Obviously, her campaign failed for good reason and this chunk of voters never saw her as a viable alternative to Biden. Nonetheless, her tanking early essentially meant that there was likely never going to be an alternative to Biden for them. That's all I meant.

They are indeed focused on electability, but they will also probably just double down on Biden to try to prevent Bernie from getting the nomination even if he pulls out of the first few states. I think you're underestimating how much the kind of black boomers like my mom and aunts do not like Bernie. They literally mention this each time we talk about the 2020 race. Trust me, they will never vote for him in the primary and they ALWAYS show up to vote. I've said this before, but I think Harris tanking early actually made things more difficult for Bernie or Liz. She had to best shot of splitting up this chunk of black boomers and not allowing them to coalesce around Biden. My mom and aunts have already said that they would have considered Harris or Booker if they were stronger candidates. They are leery of Warren's electability and barely know enough about Pete to consider him. They don't give a damn that he's gay. In their minds, why would they choose someone like him if they can choose Biden instead?

Sis, my mom and aunts loathe Bernie with a passion and would never consider voting for him unless he's the actual nominee. He's just not their cup of tea and they are still very salty about 2016. Convincing them to even consider Liz was a stretch and I've already talked to them about how Biden might demotivate many people from showing up to the polls. This spiel won't work. I think both Bernie and Liz supporters will eventually have to come to terms with the fact that there's no one left in this race with a good shot at pulling the reliable, older black voters away from Biden.

My mom has given up on Liz and will probably vote for Biden.

What in the living hell?!

So, who won the debate? I missed it again. Still waiting to get electrical work done at my new place so no cable or internet until next week. Was it an improved showing for Liz?

Stahp! They're going to fire my black ass for cackling so loud. I'm kind of talking to a Pete supporter as well. It's been a long and crazy month or so for me which is one of the reasons I haven't participated here as much. Broke up with my long-term partner after he became a completely useless mess and called me the N-word multiple times during an argument. Started hanging out with this hot older daddy that I really, really enjoy. We're on the same page in every way...except he appears to be behind Pete and *gasp* Bloomberg. I'm ignoring it for now since things are fresh and neither one of us are ready to rush into anything. He's extremely nice and genuinely loves hearing my perspective on politics and the like. It's just kind of obvious he's lived most of his life with wealth and privilege when we start talking about the primary.

Thanks! I'm super drained and not really in the mood for it tonight anyway, but I didn't want to miss anything that moved the needle.

I just got home. Is this debate worth watching at all or more of the same?

We love to see it!

He's one of the really abrasive people on political Twitter than I unfollowed a while ago as well. I tend to not care for those people on political Twitter that spend most of their time being hateful and derisive to candidates they don't support.

Oh, I definitely agree. It usually doesn't take long for the hints of self-loathing to seep out when I talk to black Republicans. Fortunately, they are usually few and far between. It's more difficult to pinpoint how deeply interwoven racism is with the economic arguments for white people on an individual level at times since I feel so many of them will cower away from any discussions of race whatsoever. Generally, I agree that many of these people often have their own issues with racism to sort out that they are simply choosing to ignore. It was a bit of a shock to me to find out that several work acquaintances that I thought I was slowly building friendships with probably voted for Trump. I know one of them is staunchly Catholic and he would probably cite religious reasons as well as economic. The other one I would constantly have discussions with about non-work related things and hung out with several times. We were on this major matter that had us traveling together for months a few years ago around the time of Charlottesville. Just watching her eyes glaze over and try to quickly change the subject when Charlottesville came up made it readily apparent to me that she probably had her own racism to sort through and that likely contributed to her support of Trump. Consequently, neither one of us have reached out to hang out again outside of work since then despite still being cordial to each other.

Trust me, people vote like this all the time. The most disappointing are the people of color who willingly do this.

I cannot stand Joe Manchin.

I wholeheartedly agree with much of this take. Well said.

Tea. My dad was a cop and well aware of the racism of some other cops. We had that talk numerous times. I still think about small things like making sure my wallet is in plain view each time I get in the car and keeping my hands up high on the steering wheel when pulled over. I throw in my whitest of voices when I get pulled over for good measure.

What was Biden's answer? I took a break from reading about politics this weekend and didn't catch it. Personally, I wasn't bothered by Bernie's answer at all, but perhaps "respect" may have not been the best word choice in the charged climate between cops and the black community.

Nutshell: Hillary Clinton, a person who is privy to exponentially more intel than an ATRLer, clocked Tulsi Gabbard and got dragged through the mud for it.

Eww at Pete not moisturizing. You know his face is as dry as cardboard with all the traveling he's doing.

My Liz shirt came today right in time for the weekend.

I don't give a damn about whether Hillary Clinton believes Tulsi Gabbard is an "useful idiot" (again, neither are particularly relevant to this election right now) or about the latest establishment conspiracy theories some of y'all gleefully regurgitate here from some far-left Twitter accounts. I'm also not sure what you consider to be the "new liberal wave of McCarthyism." Two of the top three Democratic candidates right now are pushing Medicare for All. So, if you're implying that people on the left are afraid of more Democratic socialist policies, clearly that doesn't appear to be where a fair chunk of the party is right now compared to 2016. If you're referring to the current anti-Russia sentiments, then I'm not sure why. We're fully aware of Russia's influence in the 2016 election at this juncture and have reason to believe they played a hand in influencing Trump's decisions on Ukraine which are at the center of the impeachment inquiry. There are plenty of valid reasons for us to remain cautious with Russia.

It really isn't. Her candidacy is irrelevant at this point. Some of y'all just want to make a bigger deal of her than she warrants because she hates the same people y'all do.

Tulsi probably wont even make the next debate. I don't understand why so many continue to dedicate any energy whatsoever to her at this point.

Tea. If Biden loses early primary states and some of his black support as a result, then there's absolutely no evidence to suggest that 0% Pete would suddenly become a huge beneficiary and capture the attention of black voters. Pete just isn't really on black folks' radar and his black polling numbers reflect such. Pete doesn't even seem to have much support within the black LGBT community, tbh. Black folks don't know who this man is. Sorry to this man. I feel Warren is poised to make stronger inroads with the black voters if Biden continues to wane. She's at least a known political commodity and moderate black voters that are middle-aged and older seem to respond better to her progressive message than Bernie's. I think the fact that voters like my mom already seem receptive to the idea of Warren as the nominee is telling. I consider my mom and aunts to be pretty prototypical older black women voters. They may not be as politically-engaged as most of us here or watch every debate, but they are paying attention to the key trends and headlines, discuss them in their friend and church circles, and will show up to vote for every election like clockwork. They also seem to still have a good deal of hostility towards Bernie from 2016. So, I don't feel Bernie will make significant inroads with the older, more moderate and reliable black voters like he may with the younger ones who never built up an affinity for the Clintons in the 90's like some people of my parents' generation.