news Israel/Iran conflict thread

[CandleGuy]

2 hours ago, Jjang said:

Jersey city and Manhattan are more far away

I -

 

Those are TWO STATES 

[Dali]

 

[Jjang]

2 minutes ago, CandleGuy said:

I -

 

Those are TWO STATES 

are you just writing words? 

[Communion]

1 minute ago, CandleGuy said:

I -

 

Those are TWO STATES 

Surely then you realize how silly it is to defend the idea of creating two artificial nations across a land mass smaller than fractions of 2 US states and which only serves to help Israel continue its de-facto one state?

 

Every single global expert on this conflict and apartheid agrees the 2 state solution is dead. Israel has embedded its settlements too deeply into land it claims is what the Palestinians *may* have claim to. It has basically broken down Palestine into an archipelago of plots of land to where even Obama was convinced a 2SS was now impossible due to Israel sabotaging such a reality. 

 

 

There's either gonna be the current reality of a de-facto one state Israel where Israelis get to control all aspects of life of Palestinians or a one state Palestine made de-facto from the dissolvement of the Israeli ethno-state.

[Samsara]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

Whew I knew your faux Bible theologian nonsense wall of text posts over the years where you'd write about some obscure fact on Christianity in 1456 to somehow prove its philosophical superiority were only ever a front to hide you being a Christofascist. @Samsara 

 

 

I'm a pluralist. I don't support and never echo fascism of any kind that's why I'm pro-Israel as Israel is the only one that stands in the way of Islam's supremacist and globalist agenda. The Islamists are the true fascists here that's why the mere existence of a tiny, secular nation within what Islam sees as its sphere of influence is enough to spark chaos and trouble in the whole region. No ideology in the world has a problem coexisting peacefully with another other than Islamism.

[Communion]

1 minute ago, Samsara said:

why the mere existence of a tiny, secular nation

 Miscegenation is literally illegal in Israel.

 

?

 

 

[Both Sides Now]

50 minutes ago, Jjang said:

^^^ These members just recycle arguments from the Hasbara 101 propaganda book or from StandWithUs. 

 

This is why Deconolize Palestine. com was created! feel free to search any argument (and I do mean any) they come up with and this site will provide you with direct answers to their copy pasted or re-phrased propaganda: https://decolonizepalestine.com/ 

 

 

 

Nice resource. Case in point for the racist "barren" and "uncultivated" propaganda piece:

 

To begin with, Palestine is situated in the fertile crescent, and is one of the birth places of agriculture. It was never as much a desert as the Zionist narrative claims. The vast majority of cultivated agricultural land in Israel today was already being cultivated by Palestinians before their ethnic cleansing. Schechtman estimates that on the eve of the 1948 war, around 2,990,000 dunams of land (or 739,750 acres) were being cultivated by Palestinians. These cultivated lands were so vast, that they were "greater than the physical area which was under cultivation in Israel almost thirty years later.” It took Israel 30 years to even equal the amount of land being cultivated before its establishment. Alan George continues: "The impressive expansion of Israel's cultivated area since 1948 has been more apparent than real since it involved mainly the 'reclamation' of farmland belonging to the refugees.”

Another aspect we should be wary of is reading desert as to mean uncultivated. Palestinian Bedouins have long cultivated lands in the Naqab desert using traditional farming and water preserving techniques. Records show that despite the loud proclamations of Zionists making the desert bloom, in 1944 land cultivated by Palestinians in the Naqab desert alone was three times of that cultivated by the entire Zionist settler presence in Palestine. As a matter of fact, the amount of cultivated land in the Naqab desert has dropped significantly since the Nakba in 1947-48. This is yet another case of a popular Zionist slogan being the complete opposite of reality.

[Samsara]

5 minutes ago, Communion said:

 Miscegenation is literally illegal in Israel.

 

?

 

 

I had to check this and resources online said it's false. Stop lying

[BGKC]

1 hour ago, Samsara said:

Why would the Jews want to establish a country of their own in the same country that attempted to wipe them out? This doesn't even make sense and doesn't account for the traumatic history that they endured. Given that most Jews were already residing in the Middle East, and the Land of Israel was largely barren and uncultivated at the time, it makes logical sense that it was chosen as the ideal location for establishing a Jewish homeland, rather than relocating them to a distant and unfamiliar area in the middle of the Sahara Desert.

It's the fact that Zionists relied on their cold hard oppressor to gain access to the Levant and reclaim what's supposedly theirs. They wouldn't want to establish a country in Europe, but they can damn sure use western military power and influence to occupy Palestine, am I right? And aside from glazing over Nakba, what you're insinuating is that the Palestinians have no choice but to endure generations worth of traumas because of the historical traumas the Europeans inflicted on Jews. It's absolutely absurd what goes over people head when it comes to this. 
 

Of course Hamas is appears like an unhinged savage group of rebels with nothing else to lose compared to the sophisticated proxy state that is Israel who is "just trying to defend itself" like you gotta be reeeal dense. 

Edited April 11 by BGKC

[BGKC]

DP

Edited April 11 by BGKC

[Samsara]

11 minutes ago, BGKC said:

It's the fact that Zionists relied on their cold hard oppressor to gain access to the Levant and reclaim what's supposedly theirs. They wouldn't want to establish a country in Europe, but they can damn sure use western military power and influence to occupy Palestine, am I right? And aside from glazing over Nakba, what you're insinuating is that the Palestinians have no choice but to endure generations worth of traumas because of the historical traumas the Europeans inflicted on Jews. It's absolutely absurd what goes over people head when it comes to this. 
 

Of course Hamas is appears like an unhinged savage group of rebels with nothing else to lose compared to the sophisticated proxy state that is Israel who is "just trying to defend itself" like you gotta be reeeal dense. 

It was the League of Nations that supported the establishment of Jewish homeland in Israel. Establishing a country in a largely uncultivated land is more practical and more sensible than begging a scrap of adjacent land from your very own oppressor just 2 years after the Holocaust. Also, Jews had been legally establishing settlements in Israel for decades prior to the Holocaust, purchasing land from Ottoman and British landowners. They did not get them for free.

[BGKC]

1 hour ago, Samsara said:

It was the League of Nations that supported the establishment of Jewish homeland in Israel. Establishing a country in a largely uncultivated land is more practical and more sensible than begging a scrap of adjacent land from your very own oppressor just 2 years after the Holocaust. Also, Jews had been legally establishing settlements in Israel for decades prior to the Holocaust, purchasing land from Ottoman and British landowners. They did not get them for free.

The League of Nations first established the United Kingdom as a mandatory in control of Palestine which led to the Balfour Declaration which was a public statement issued by the British Government in support of establishing a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. That is when Jewish people largely and legally immigrated there (decades before the holocaust). This obvious didn't bode well among Palestinians who went from fighting British occupation to Zionist occupation, ultimately causing the British government to switch up and create the Palestine Mandate, promising an independent Palestinian state free from occupation in 10 years. Of course the UN intervened and partitioned Palestine after the holocaust, but this doesn't justify the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. Like why should Palestinians have to pay the price of what happened to the Jews in Europe while places like Germany were able to thrive in the long run? 

[Headlock]

9 hours ago, Communion said:

Whew I knew your faux Bible theologian nonsense wall of text posts over the years where you'd write about some obscure fact on Christianity in 1456 to somehow prove its philosophical superiority were only ever a front to hide you being a Christofascist. @Samsara 

 

 

Holy **** I just went through their posts and 

 

This just makes their copy and pasted Hasbara posts in here all the more sinister 

[Headlock]

9 hours ago, Samsara said:

It was the League of Nations that supported the establishment of Jewish homeland in Israel. Establishing a country in a largely uncultivated land is more practical and more sensible than begging a scrap of adjacent land from your very own oppressor just 2 years after the Holocaust. Also, Jews had been legally establishing settlements in Israel for decades prior to the Holocaust, purchasing land from Ottoman and British landowners. They did not get them for free.

What kind of Christopher Columbus nonsense, you truly are just hitting every Hasbara talking point one after the other 

[Cesar]

9 hours ago, Samsara said:

No ideology in the world has a problem coexisting peacefully with another other than Islamism.

Are we living on the same planet 

 

 

edit: oh, I just read ur old posts from years ago. Now it makes sense 

 

[Cesar]

9 hours ago, Communion said:

Whew I knew your faux Bible theologian nonsense wall of text posts over the years where you'd write about some obscure fact on Christianity in 1456 to somehow prove its philosophical superiority were only ever a front to hide you being a Christofascist. @Samsara 

 

 

this expose i'm crackling

 

[Aethereal]

Why is Iran using Palestinian children as sacrificial lambs? They live in poverty and have suffered for decades, they don't know better about Hamas or attacking Israel. Iran knows exactly what they are doing. 

[Samsara]

2 hours ago, Headlock said:

Holy **** I just went through their posts and 

 

This just makes their copy and pasted Hasbara posts in here all the more sinister 

It's not my fault that your school failed to educate you on the profound impact of religion on society. This is literally basic history. So I wouldn't be surprised if you don't know the the nuances, intricacies, and even the straightforward historical facts surrounding the Israel conflict.

 

To conceal the religious affiliations and convictions of the founders and architects of great civilizations requires a significant distortion and denial of history. It's an uncomfortable reality for some atheists to acknowledge, but religion is a vast and intricate field of study that intersects with history, archaeology, sociology, psychology, politics, economics, and beyond. It's far too expansive and nuanced to be dismissed with simplistic labels like "the root of all evil," "religion is cancer" blah blah blah

[Samsara]

2 hours ago, Headlock said:

What kind of Christopher Columbus nonsense, you truly are just hitting every Hasbara talking point one after the other 

The population of Palestine did not exceed 350,000 during the in the late 19th century when the Jews started creating legal settlements in the region. The region was largely desolate and very underpopulated as documented by numerous travel accounts. The population only started to boom starting in early 20th century due to Muslim migration attracted by agricultural jobs founded by Jews. Many Muslim/Arab inhabitants at the time were not even locals but immigrants from neighboring Muslim countries.

 

To draw a parallel to European colonization of America and paint the Palestinian Arabs as some oppressed, helpless natives that are victims of Jewish colonialism when in fact they started murdering Jews even before 1948 which started this conflict shows absolute naivete and shortsightedness and blatant disregard for history. You probably don't even know that the leader of the Arab movement opposed to Zionism was a close ally of Hitler and supported the Holocaust. 

[Samsara]

2 hours ago, Aethereal said:

Why is Iran using Palestinian children as sacrificial lambs? They live in poverty and have suffered for decades, they don't know better about Hamas or attacking Israel. Iran knows exactly what they are doing. 

Not a single Muslim country stands in solidarity with the Palestinian people. Their actions are purely motivated by shared concerns related to Israel being their common enemy. 

[Communion]

30 minutes ago, Samsara said:

It's an uncomfortable reality for some atheists to acknowledge, but religion is a vast and intricate field of study that intersects with history, archaeology, sociology, psychology, politics, economics, and beyond. It's far too expansive and nuanced to be dismissed with simplistic labels like "the root of all evil," "religion is cancer" blah blah blah

 

12 hours ago, Samsara said:

Islam's supremacist and globalist agenda.

 

12 hours ago, Samsara said:

No ideology in the world has a problem coexisting peacefully with another other than Islamism.

?

[Communion]

12 hours ago, Samsara said:

I had to check this and resources online said it's false. Stop lying

Pop quiz

 

How many interfaith marriages were legally performed within the borders of Israel in the last 10 years?

 

Quickly. 

[Samsara]

3 minutes ago, Communion said:

 

 

?

I expressly stated "Islamism" (the political ideology) in my post you quoted last, though it has now kind of become interchangeable with Islam (the religion)

[Communion]

Just now, Samsara said:

I expressly stated "Islamism" (the political ideology) in my post you quoted last, though it has now kind of become interchangeable with Islam (the religion)

How else is someone meant to interpret your stance that "atheists need to lose the hatred they have and begin to understand that all religions are beautiful and meaningful...except for Islam" besides viewing you as a fascist? 

 

What other context can one interpret your statements besides in a highly racialized way?

 

Your posts literally give 1800s European phrenologist talking about the innate superiority of the "Judeo-Christian West" and "Islamic barbarism".

 

Your jig is up. Any reputation you had on here as just that one user really into religion is blown. Your biases and prejudices are on full display. 

[Samsara]

2 minutes ago, Communion said:

Pop quiz

 

How many interfaith marriages were legally performed within the borders of Israel in the last 10 years?

 

Quickly. 

Don't know and don't care. What I know is that Israel is a liberal secular democracy that guarantees freedom of and from religion for all its citizens. An Israeli Jew can even leave Judaism without fear of persecution.