theflying

For the record, and I apologize if my posts made it a little unclear because I got pulled a bit from my main point: People are obviously free to discuss whatever they want here, I don't make the rules. But I am objecting to the idea that something happening in the Middle East means that the floodgates deserve to be open here to people using inflammatory, nasty demonization language toward each other. I don't see how that's justice, or helping anything.

If you're trying to frame this as a competition of who's the victim, you are truly welcome to take it. I don't see myself as a victim. I think if you're Palestinian, the idea that some spaces don't need to be full of politics might feel threatening to you, that it means people might want you dead, or are prejudiced against you. That's why I offered a good faith challenge to you: what if instead of finding reasons that I'm "hiding" something, like some sort of deep seeded prejudice against you, what if you took my idea in better faith? Music is supposed to be uniting. That's why fascist and dictatorial regimes often ban music: because it's a rare opportunity to be reminded that people you're inclined to hate also love the same things as you do. And if they love the same things as you do, that would get in the way of the thought process that they are out to get you, hate you, want you dead, or are bad people. We cannot control the Middle East from this forum. But we can control how we behave toward each other.

Because we are *sharing a forum together*, and the good faith perspective is to treat people who are on a pop music forum as people who are here because they love pop music, not because they have voodoo dolls of people they stab at night praying for their deaths. I know the internet is a charged place but not every space, every person, or every celebrity needs to approach a massive issue in such a reductive, zero-sum, binary way, lest they be prejudiced, "complicit", a bad person, whatever. Can we just please stop acting here like some people are "better" people? No one here is better than anyone, no is here to advocate for violence against anyone, we're here because we cry to All Too Well or whatever. It is totally normal to feel frustrated about a conflict you have no power to alter; but making that outlet here is like the least productive way to channel it. Send money, send aid, go protest, go write politicians, do anything but act like the pop music forum is ground zero for anything.

I propose a good faith challenge to you: Instead of trying to make assumptions about me in order to demonize me, when you don't actually know my skin color, anything about me or what I believe in, what if you actually stopped looking for reasons to try and demonize me as someone prejudiced and actually just engaged with the idea I'm presenting, that maybe we don't have to make everything inflammatory and divisive and bad-faith binary. All anyone talks about is this conflict. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you have to demonize them, that they must be prejudiced, that they must be cool with violence against you, or any of that. I want Palestinians to live in peace and be free of violence and live nice, safe, prosperous lives. I don't know what anything else about me is relevant.

I think this is a really fantastic example of radicalism, and it's a real shame that a moderator is doing it. Everything needs to be Palestine, everyone is "complicit" in "normalizing it", no, it can't possibly be that people just want to try and be on a forum for pop music. Every space must become an activist, highly charged space, according to a singular maximal interpretation (the second Holocaust is NOW!), that change has to be done here, right now, and God forbid anyone disagrees with me —- because they're absolutely delusional if they think anything else and how will everything one thinks stay perfect and protected if one dares engage with people who don't think the exact same? This forum has been worse off in the last two years ever since topics about this conflict started being posted. Our actual forum, here, this very one we're sharing and have control over, is *worse*. But instead of caring about our own space, everything must Palestine Palestine Palestine. Taylor Swift can't even post about her engagement because she hasn't said Palestine yet. And what's so funny is that in the Middle East, that's exactly the dynamic many countries have about it. Dictators make their own countries worse but do it in the name of Palestine, and then accusing everyone who goes "Can we focus on our space" of being some complicit pro-genocider traitor or something.

I don't mean to be rude, but this is just so ungrounded. This conflict is half of all literally anyone has talked about for two years. There is no "momentum", there is nothing this conflict "requires" other than a resolution, and I don't understand how anyone could think this topic needs to be even MORE "centered". I just think it's really a misplaced priority that a moderator thinks we need to speak MORE about this topic, instead of making this forum less toxic so people can have an escape from it. How about if instead of rage bait topics full of nasty discourse about some of the most sensitive issues on the planet, we actually, I don't know, tried to focus *ourselves* on *this very forum* that we *actually have control over* and make it less hospitable…to inhospitality.

I have no doubt that your feelings and perceptions are valid and accurate in other spaces you're privy to. I can only personally say that, very specifically, *here on this forum*, I see almost exclusively using Zionist as a slur, incendiary topics full of inflammatory language that is essentially just rage-bait for people, and a brigade of posters that are happy to downvote and pile on anyone who objects. I honest to god just cannot understand this need to tie pop stars in with Gaza. Nothing anyone has said affected anything. I think most people just want to feel like Pop stars care if their people are dying or at the very least don't want their people dead. And that is true of BOTH Israelis and Palestinians, Jews and Muslims. But people need to learn to have better faith that most people walking around are generally good enough people regardless. No one young and making music walks around wishing death upon people, and if they do, it's probably not a thought we'll ever be privy to. It's just so unnecessary putting people on trial during every conflict that lest they say something they're a BAD PERSON who wants someone DEAD.

Feel free to point it out! But we can't be hyper sensitive about Islamophobia and xenophobia and then slur Jews and Israelis that post here that they're supremecist war-mongering genocidal colonialists. That is rules for thee, not for me. (It's also a form of xenophobia by the way.) If someone just can't seem to exist on a pop music forum without pouring out those words as opposed to literally every other social media platform and website, then I'm not sure preventing phobias and bad discourse is the thing that's really trying to be prevented here.

There is nothing about the Israel Gaza war that people don't have massive heavy disagreements about and think the other is distorting the narrative by pushing misleading information. No one is immune from that, no one has a monopoly on that, and no one's identity makes them above doing so. No one is on aTRL to advocate for violence, and if they are, they should go to a different forum. This place really, really doesn't need to be a rhetorical war ground. This is sort a microcosm of Taylor Swift not posting about it: it is okay to have a few select small spaces where we escape from this ****. Not every space or person needs to be dragged under the banner of "silence / complicity" etc. Like I can't understand why people on aTRL keep bringing up this conflict, like save it for literally every other space it's constantly discussed in, isn't that enough for people?

Then be on the side of reducing and condemning toxicity here. Otherwise, you can't dismiss someone saying they are experiencing toxicity and then also say it's totally cool to be toxic here. This is a pop music forum. No one is here to make other people feel like crap, no here should be running around branding and labeling people as if something said on this forum will have an effect on a horrible situation in the Middle East. What DOES effect things here though is using this forum to constantly insert inflammatory language in highly charged topics that have contributed to a much less harmonious forum. The only wars that need to happen here are Stan wars.

This user spoke about animus being widely allowed here against Israelis and Jews in ways that should be completely unacceptable. There is no amount of "knowledge" that should make that acceptable. If you were to apply all those exact things quoted but make them said about Palestinians, I think you would very rightly feel upset by that. No one has a monopoly on narrative, and no one's identity means they should have a permission slip to make things toxic for other people's identities. We're here because we all like Pop Music.

Like, seriously, talk about cringe behavior. A horrendous tragedy is occurring in the Middle East and it's being used for Stan war points? If the OP really insists on virtue signaling, since no celeb post will do anything anyways, go virtue signal people that have demonstrated clear commitments to two state solutions. People who understand that you don't have to "choose" one people over the other. That would actually be something worth making a topic about. Instead, it's drivel where no one is allowed to post about their once in a lifetime thing because Palestine.

You know, in the Middle East, everyone is constantly posting about Palestine; it dominates the political agenda of countries and has for literally a lifetime. And you know what it leads to? An environment where Palestine is a constant virtue signal to leaders that know how to appeal to the populism of it to drum up support in spite of their crappy policies. There is a big virtue in not commenting on everything. Taylor Swift is an artist who should appeal to everyone regardless of their political affiliation. The fact that outlets like The Guardian and people here want to take that away from her and her fans just so she can make a social media post so you can decide she's some sort of "better person" for doing so says more about you than it does her. If you want everyone's political discussion to be dominated by Palestine all the time, then don't be shocked if people start to rebel. Sorry, but we're not treating Israel Palestine as this ultimate symbol of good versus evil. The fact that this forum has been brigaded by people constantly using slurs against Israelis and Jews here is a big issue that is far more relevant to this actual forum than Taylor Swift commenting on Gaza. Every week there is some sort of virtue signaling topic that usually coupled with a slur, and it's a really big issue that has not been handled well on this forum.

Sugar Talking is actually a fantastic bop, it just sort of sneaks up on you because it's mid tempo. Once it clicks, it becomes a top tier post e-mails Sabrina song that doesn't actually sound like anything Short N Sweet. It has a GREAT late night 70s vibe to it. Definitely a standout. I think/hope people will come around to it.

So what do you recommend happen to all the Israelis who feel that Zionism was the only thing that protected their families from death? Edit: I see SmittenCakes feels more comfortable downvoting than answering whether they're for a two state solution or for whether millions of Israelis should be killed, which is the only real tangible outcome constantly using Zionism as a slur would mean. It's not okay to label all Palestinians as Hamas, and not okay to slur all Israelis either. Bigotry isn't a good look.