base talk Madonna, Celine, Taylor - only female artists to move 200m+ album units?

[family.guy123]

4 minutes ago, Kasix said:

I find it so funny that swifties here are still arguing with dinosaur acts’ fans as if there is ever changing their minds to see streams as sales 
 

Just copy and paste this: 

 

1500 streams = 10 bucks in royalties which is the price of a cd so it is a sale as far as the entire music industry from billboard and nielsen to chartmaster and fpi is concerned. If they can’t wrap your head around then it’s on you.  Taylor is overtaking Madonna in sales by all these industry standards sooner or later 
Regardless of your feelings. 
 

 

Another issue. A blanket 1500 streams = 1 album, disregarding that albums vary wildly in length. Funny, I see constant complaining about Redneck Wallen’s 36th song track list in the billboard threads. Where are all those people now? (Hint: they’re in here)

[Kasix]

49 minutes ago, family.guy123 said:

Another issue. A blanket 1500 streams = 1 album, disregarding that albums vary wildly in length. Funny, I see constant complaining about Redneck Wallen’s 36th song track list in the billboard threads. Where are all those people now? (Hint: they’re in here)

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Maga Warren’s 40 track gimmick is a scam to be more dominant on the billboard top200 charts.  The complaint towards billboard is that his number 1 weeks are obviously inflated by having 3x the tracks of the other albums, so a rule should perhaps be in place to split his triple album into 3 different albums, preventing him from fraudulently occupy the top spot this way. 
 

No one is saying Warren’s 1500 streams shouldn’t convert to 1 CD unit due to track counts. His total career unit will still be the same. 
 

if anything, Taylor’s units should be increased because a 50 bucks vinyl costs way more than a 10 buck CD. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Kasix

[stevyy]

2 hours ago, Lille said:

People complaining about streaming when music club "sales" account for half of 80s/90s artists' units.

 

Go to bed abuelita!

Q-Anon is another thread... find it. U'll enjoy it there, babygorl. 

[BrandNewBrandon]

12 hours ago, spree said:

No one is taking anything away from Taylor, the issue is the deflection away from what the numbers would truly look like if streaming was around forever.

 

if The Immaculate Collection sold 10M, would it still be at 10M in 2023 if streaming was around in 1990? 33 years later?

 

absolutely not! 
 

it’s the complete dismissal of what could’ve happened (but let’s compare them anyways) that makes comparing artists from different generations a moot point. You can’t compare them objectively. 

 

5 hours ago, Klein said:

They're just saying it's unfair because Taylor is moving up the ranks. 

 

It's always "it's so much easier for streaming artists" when in fact, they are nowhere near these heights of the pure sales artists. 

 

Only Taylor and Drake have a shot at reaching the top 10 biggest artists of all time (and it's not even that likely for Drake). For me, if you want to argue that it's unfair that they can do that, it just means the methodology used is wrong. It's wild to me to think no new artist could or should ever reach the level of success of the legends before them. 

 

4 hours ago, Kasix said:

I find it so funny that swifties here are still arguing with dinosaur acts’ fans as if there is ever changing their minds to see streams as sales 
 

Just copy and paste this: 

 

1500 streams = 10 bucks in royalties which is the price of a cd so it is counted as a sale as far as the entire music industry from billboard, RIAA and nielsen to chartmaster and IFPI is concerned. If you can’t Get over it then it’s on you, all these industry outlets will proclaim Taylor to have outsold Madonna when it happens regardless of your feelings. 
 

 

 

5 hours ago, Lille said:

People complaining about streaming when music club "sales" account for half of 80s/90s artists' units.

 

Go to bed abuelita!

 

14 hours ago, Cruel Summer said:

“Records sold” is an entirely different thing that has always been a terrible metric and the album equivalent unit simply doesn’t have that problem. It’s also been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that there is no evidence that artists from the streaming era have begun to “push down” older artists in all time rankings.

A big and extremely relevant factor to all of this is that Taylor Swift has consumption measured on every continent and in every country in the world whereas Madonna and Michael Jackson only had their sales tracked from the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe and Japan as Latin America, Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe were unaccounted for. Eastern Europe was affected by communism and had little-to-no official stores with legal albums and piracy was practically the only way to consume music. Think about how many millions of copies are unaccounted for for those artists who were INCREDIBLY popular in all those territories that they could fill out stadiums the moment their boarders opened up. 

 

Elvis and The Beatles had even a bigger problem before that as even less markets were measuring sales. It only started being somewhat fair in the 2000s but then again Lady Gaga suffered from this as well as her digital single sales from Latin America, Asia and Eastern Europe are also unaccounted for because according to the IFPI over 95% of the music consumption was illegal and pirated thanks to LimeWire. 

 

But streaming changed all of that. Piracy is pretty much gone for music and Taylor is now collecting numbers from every single territory aside from Asia and regardless where you are if you play her music you will contribute to her overall units. That has never been the case pre-streaming. 

 

So physical media or digital media, for a buck or ten, it simply doesn't change the fact that Madonna, Whitney and Celine only had 40-50% of the market to track sales from whereas Taylor and any other current artist has 90%. 

[Alexz]

3 hours ago, Kasix said:

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Maga Warren’s 40 track gimmick is a scam to be more dominant on the billboard top200 charts.  The complaint towards billboard is that his number 1 weeks are obviously inflated by having 3x the tracks of the other albums, so a rule should perhaps be in place to split his triple album into 3 different albums, preventing him from fraudulently occupy the top spot this way. 
 

No one is saying Warren’s 1500 streams shouldn’t convert to 1 CD unit due to track counts. His total career unit will still be the same. 
 

if anything, Taylor’s units should be increased because a 50 bucks vinyl costs way more than a 10 buck CD. 

Boo hoo cry me a river these are the metrics Billboard, IFPI, Soundscan, Luminate and chartmasters use and there's no whining from you that can change it.

[spree]

1 hour ago, Alexz said:

Boo hoo cry me a river these are the metrics Billboard, IFPI, Soundscan, Luminate and chartmasters use and there's no whining from you that can change it.

as if Taylor is gimmick-free. 

[Alexz]

2 minutes ago, spree said:

as if Taylor is gimmick-free. 

These people are so transparent dragging Britney and Madonna and the greats of the past because they didn't amass all the units but crying because Morgan Wallen is outtayloring Taylor.

[Aethereal]

Artists get millions of streams in first weeks just from curiosity from all over the world. 

 

You can also share a CD with your friends, roommates or family when it comes to consumption.

 

The music market of late 2000s was like 1/2 of 1990s and you didn't see Taylor doing half of Madonna's or Mariah's sales outside of America before streaming came by. 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Aristotle

[spree]

4 minutes ago, Alexz said:

These people are so transparent dragging Britney and Madonna and the greats of the past because they didn't amass all the units but crying because Morgan Wallen is outtayloring Taylor.

just wait till Morgan starts debuting with 1M+ for each album from now on.  You know it's coming.  He might even occupy the entire Top 10 like Taylor did. 

[Alexz]

1 minute ago, spree said:

just wait till Morgan starts debuting with 1M+ for each album from now on.  You know it's coming.  He might even occupy the entire Top 10 like Taylor did. 

USA in an eternal loop of rednecks music dominating from Garth Brooks to Taylor to Morgan.

[Goaty]

4 minutes ago, Aristotle said:

The music market of late 2000s was like 1/2 of 1990s and you didn't see Taylor doing half of Madonna's or Mariah's sales outside of America before streaming came by. 

Would you expect her to do so with her sound and genre at the time? She didn't dip her toes into mainstream pop until the 2010s.

[Kasix]

1 hour ago, Alexz said:

Boo hoo cry me a river these are the metrics Billboard, IFPI, Soundscan, Luminate and chartmasters use and there's no whining from you that can change it.

I’m so sorry this is your level of reading comprehension.  Good luck with your future 

[Kasix]

44 minutes ago, spree said:

as if Taylor is gimmick-free. 

She is. Having extra variants doesn’t matter if no one spends their hard earn cash to buy them. And the variants are actual physical vinyls anyway so not only it is exactly the type of sales you hold so dearly of, but they’re also worth 5-6x the amount of a traditional cd.  

[spree]

7 minutes ago, Kasix said:

She is. 

 

lemme go buy that digitally signed Witch version of Willow real quick.  That was such an organic #1 wasn't it.   Taylor is as gimmicky as BTS and prime Mariah Carey.  If you can't see that... 

Edited December 20, 2023 by spree

[Kasix]

44 minutes ago, Alexz said:

These people are so transparent dragging Britney and Madonna and the greats of the past because they didn't amass all the units but crying because Morgan Wallen is outtayloring Taylor.

Literally nobody has anything bad to say about Madonna, just that some of you here have an inability to realize that the industry has changed and and that streams are sales regardless of how unable hard you fail to understand this.

 

Morgan Warren sold maybe 8-9m albums this year, Taylor sold 18m, the most in history. Billboard also proclaimed this so you can go fail your reading comprehension elsewhere. 

 

 

btw: why is Britnay mentioned in the sales conversation? She’s has like maybe 80m total sled or something. Middle of the road level career. 
 

 

[Kasix]

1 hour ago, spree said:

 

lemme go buy that digitally signed Witch version of Willow real quick.  That was such an organic #1 wasn't it.   Taylor is as gimmicky as BTS and prime Mariah Carey.  If you can't see that... 

? 
 

The whole conversation and the whole thread is about album sales. Some remixes of a  song  doesn’t address my point or this topic - about album sales, in any way shape or form.  

 

when you have to purposely misconstrue different topics into one and muddy the water that way to help back up your point, then you don’t have a point to begin with. 

 

again, I’ll copy and paste my previous point which you clearly dodged: 

 

 

Compared to Morgan Warren’s gimmick of inflating his track numbers for more streams, Having extra variants doesn’t matter if no one spends their hard earn cash to buy them. And the variants are expensive vinyls so not only it is exactly the type of sales you hold so dearly of, but they’re also worth 5-6x the amount of a traditional CD. If you have issues with streams being considered as sales then you should be glad Taylor is single-handedly keeping the sales market alive in whichever way possible.

[WildHeart]

5 hours ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

whereas Madonna and Michael Jackson only had their sales tracked from the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe and Japan as Latin America, Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe were unaccounted for.

Michael Jackson 

Latin America –

    Argentina – 1,785,000

    Brazil – 5,500,000

    Mexico – 4,500,000

Asia – 25,690,000

    Japan – 10,100,000

 

Madonna 

Latin America –

    Argentina – 1,930,000

    Brazil – 5,795,000

    Mexico – 4,370,000

Asia – 20,215,000

    Japan – 9,895,000

[Lover]

it is what it is

[DoubleRainbow!]

Didn’t Madonna do that with physicals?

[ttsmu]

27 minutes ago, DoubleRainbow! said:

Didn’t Madonna do that with physicals?

Yes only physicals.

 

If they counted all the times we played her physical albums during the 80's, 90's and 00's she should be at least at 500M . 

[spree]

42 minutes ago, ttsmu said:

Yes only physicals.

 

If they counted all the times we played her physical albums during the 80's, 90's and 00's she should be at least at 500M . 

but according to Swifties, most people just wanted to hear Jimmy, Jimmy and then turn the cd off. 

[4Real]

Reading this thread is like entering a time capsule

 

 

[Cleanromantic]

Atrlers never had a problem with streaming until Taylor reached the top . 

[BrandNewBrandon]

7 hours ago, ttsmu said:

Yes only physicals.

 

If they counted all the times we played her physical albums during the 80's, 90's and 00's she should be at least at 500M . 

Well at least. Taylor wouldn't even be reaching Whitney with those numbers and frankly it's not that far-fetched considering outside of the US she's just not THAT big. Sure, she can put a couple of albums on the album charts thanks to her large and devoted fanbase streaming the **** out of them but where are the hits? Hearing her on the radio is mostly Blank Space and Shake It Off and there's definitely not as much hype or interest from the GP either. 

 

The ultimate drag is that her movie didn't even pull its US opening weekend number outside of America in total  The #1 female of all time 

 

I don't think her stans comperehend that NO ONE was arguing when Adele was doing her numbers back in 2015 and no one was arguing about Lady Gaga not being big from 2009-11 because everyone knew they were. The thing with Taylor is she's massive in the States but is NOT the biggest artist of all time outside of the US. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by BrandNewBrandon

[Cruel Summer]

It is absolutely ridiculous that we still keep coming around to “b-b-but they didn’t count how many times a CD was jammed into a stereo in 1987!” like we don’t literally all know that it’s because of the difference in how revenue is generated. Like we’re not even SAYING anything anymore, it’s not exactly a deep secret that consumption is different. Pretending not to see the differences is just, like - what are we doing here?

 

6 minutes ago, BrandNewBrandon said:

Well at least. Taylor wouldn't even be reaching Whitney with those numbers and frankly it's not that far-fetched considering outside of the US she's just not THAT big. Sure, she can put a couple of albums on the album charts thanks to her large and devoted fanbase streaming the **** out of them but where are the hits? Hearing her on the radio is mostly Blank Space and Shake It Off and there's definitely not as much hype or interest from the GP either. 

 

The ultimate drag is that her movie didn't even pull its US opening weekend number outside of America in total  The #1 female of all time 

 

I don't think her stans comperehend that NO ONE was arguing when Adele was doing her numbers back in 2015 and no one was arguing about Lady Gaga not being big from 2009-11 because everyone knew they were. The thing with Taylor is she's massive in the States but is NOT the biggest artist of all time outside of the US. 

First, aside from all the rest you just typed being wrong, The Eras Tour film grossed more outside the US than literally any concert film ever besides ONE grossed worldwide including the US 

 

Second, you (constantly) arguing with Taylor’s unprecedented, unmatched, unparalleled dominance and comparing it to artists who did not pull the same numbers doesn’t make it any less real