charts discussion ChartMasters CSPC Discussion

[feelslikeadream]

43 minutes ago, Michael21 said:

I looked at some stats, but it still looks too much for me. That's all 

Oh, sorry if that came across as abrasive. I was just shook cause it seemed like you didn't know Rumours. A huge portion of those sales are from Rumours alone, but their other albums (esp. Fleetwood Mac and my personal fave Tango in the Night) sold pretty well too. Also, before the famous lineup of Mick, Stevie, Christine, and John, the band was basically made up of all different people and they released 9 albums  The total sales number might include those albums as well. Anyway, FM has such a good discography! You should look into them and help increase those stats

[robbyds]

2 hours ago, Anticipating said:

Probably returned copies? That would explain why it sold under 2m according to the IFPI

Could be. Then again, an annual report is submitted to shareholders at the end of a fiscal year. Damita Jo was released March 30 so I would assume that the window to return unsold copies would have already lapsed before the end of the year. Curious case. I hope chartmasters.org could shed light to this. 20YO too is slightly off as EMI reported sales of 1.2M according to the 2006 AR.

Edited April 16, 2017 by robbyds

[Tremor Christ]

11 hours ago, Eternium said:

Ms. Jackson is coming with 59.6M albums sold and over 70M album equivalents. Make sure to refresh ChartMasters.org and give them those much needed hits!

This is more accurate tbh.

 

Janet's numbers are inflated.

 

There's no way that:

Control sold 14M,

Rhythm Nation sold 20M,

Janet. sold 20M,

The Velvet Rope sold 10M,

All For You sold 8M &

Damita Jo sold 3M.

 

Unfortunately she isn't that global.

 

But still very impressive neverthless.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Tremor Christ

[MadOnHer]

Madonna being the top ranking female (of course) and having 14 entries in the All-Time Top Songs list!!!  

Edited April 16, 2017 by MadOnHer

[Dreajae]

Well her stans believe that Janet has an uncertified RIAA total that leads to 42 million. Maybe 50 if the cspc formula is applied.

 

These numbers kind of prove why Janet wasnt automatically apart of the big 3 and constantly bumped for Madonna. Ive also forgotten how many albums Janet has. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Dreajae

[T.C]

17 hours ago, Eternium said:

Ms. Jackson is coming with 59.6M albums sold and over 70M album equivalents. Make sure to refresh ChartMasters.org and give them those much needed hits!

What's this based on? 

 

I'm sure based on outdated certifications with an estimated guess, that Control is at 10m, RN is at 12m, Janet. Is at 15m and AFY is at 7m.

 

The rest seem accurate though.

[ECNEICSNOC]

Why aren't physical sales of greatest hits albums included in the final tally?

[ISlayForX]

Some people try so hard with that site. It's not going to be a reference ever just get over it dude...

[Brinny Baby]

8 minutes ago, ISlayForX said:

Some people try so hard with that site. It's not going to be a reference ever just get over it dude...

The site's author, MJDangerous, had his previous work quoted by Billboard themselves - he already happened. 

 

[Anticipating]

47 minutes ago, ISlayForX said:

Some people try so hard with that site. It's not going to be a reference ever just get over it dude...

He actually provides sales breakdowns and most of his estimates are based off official numbers (such as IFPI). Mediatraffic could never. 

[stevyy]

6 hours ago, Dreajae said:

Well her stans believe that Janet has an uncertified RIAA total that leads to 42 million. Maybe 50 if the cspc formula is applied.

 

These numbers kind of prove why Janet wasnt automatically apart of the big 3 and constantly bumped for Madonna. Ive also forgotten how many albums Janet has. 

just add soundscan + BMG and you can see for yourself, how under-certified she is in the United States. 40m albums shipped is a conservative number for her in the US... she was one of the biggest selling albums artists from Control-2001. 

[Phil]

On 15/04/2017 at 7:14 PM, Eternium said:

 

Ms. Jackson is coming with 59.6M albums sold and over 70M album equivalents. Make sure to refresh ChartMasters.org and give them those much needed hits!

UPDATED FIGURES!

 

[Phil]

And article published: 

http://chartmasters.org/2017/04/cspc-janet-jackson-popularity-analysis/

She's #25 among all artists analyzed so far

[Eternium]

http://chartmasters.org/2017/04/cspc-janet-jackson-popularity-analysis/

 

Wiw  Any comments on the article? @slobro @robbyds @T.C

[Eternium]

7 hours ago, ECNEICSNOC said:

Why aren't physical sales of greatest hits albums included in the final tally?

They are. They fall under "Other Releases" along with live EPs and remix albums. He does this because compilations cannibalize sales.

 

For example, Pink Floyd have incredible catalog stats on their original studio albums that dwarf their peers and make their albums look much bigger. However, their peers have huge compilation albums that give a more full look of the lasting popularity of their releases.

5 hours ago, ISlayForX said:

Some people try so hard with that site. It's not going to be a reference ever just get over it dude...

You're a decade late, sis. He has some flaws, but nobody will ever be 100% accurate with counting music sales and he's easily the most reliable WW so far.

[Anticipating]

16 hours ago, robbyds said:

Could be. Then again, an annual report is submitted to shareholders at the end of a fiscal year. Damita Jo was released March 30 so I would assume that the window to return unsold copies would have already lapsed before the end of the year. Curious case. I hope chartmasters.org could shed light to this. 20YO too is slightly off as EMI reported sales of 1.2M according to the 2006 AR.

Quote

Known facts strongly damage claims of high overseas sales. On 1990 Polygram annual report, we learn that Rhythm Nation 1814 shipped “over 3 million units” for the year while it achieved 2,5 million units in the US alone. Moving from Polygram-owned A&M Records to EMI-owned Virgin label, she then shipped “over 8 million units” by March 31 1994 of Janet. album while she got certified for 6 million sales in the US a few days later, letting a mere 2 million sales for rest of the World sales. The Velvet Rope, which was quite successful in Europe by the artist standards and weaker in the US, sold 4,5+ million by March 1998 and 1,6 million more for the next 12 months, a total of slightly over 6 million including some 3,1 million of which in the US. Then All For You shipped 5,1 million copies by March 2002 with again 3 million units coming from the US alone. On its side, Damita Jo shipped 2,4 million on its day of release thanks to high expectations but its failure resulted in heavy returns and the miss of the IFPI Global Top 50 for the year. 20 Y.O. suffered the same fate.

Here's his breakdown:

Quote

America
US – 1,050,000
Canada – 40,000
Argentina – N/A
Brazil – 5,000
Mexico – N/A
Asia – 220,000
Japan – 165,000
Oceania
Australia – 10,000
New Zealand – N/A
Europe – 150,000
UK – 40,000
France – 20,000
Germany – 35,000
Italy – 7,000
Spain – 5,000
Sweden – 2,000
Netherlands – 6,000
Switzerland – 3,000
Austria – 3,000
Finland – N/A
World – 1,550,000

 

[aaronsmithjune1]

1982 Janet Jackson – 500,000
1984 Dream Street – 300,000
1986 Control – 9,200,000
1989 Rhythm Nation 1814 – 10,900,000
1993 Janet. – 12,600,000
1997 The Velvet Rope – 7,450,000
2001 All for You – 5,900,000
2004 Damita Jo – 1,550,000
2006 20 Y.O. – 1,000,000
2008 Discipline – 700,000
2015 Unbreakable – 400,000

 

 

 

Beyoncé Career Releases: 

 

Destiny's Child - 2,300,000

The writings on the wall - 13,000,000

Survivor. -  10,000,000

Dangerously in Love - 10,000,000

Destiny fulfilled.-  6,250,000 

B'Day 6,100,000

I am Sasha fierce 7,700,000

4 - 3,250,000

BEYONCÉ.-  4,000,000

Lemonade.-  3,000,000

 

 

Well look at this.

[Eternium]

Am I the only one really impressed by Unbreakable's sales? And she's moved more solo album equivalents than Rihanna, Beyonce, Taylor Swift and Adele. I underestimated her  

[robbyds]

5 hours ago, Eternium said:

http://chartmasters.org/2017/04/cspc-janet-jackson-popularity-analysis/

 

Wiw  Any comments on the article? @slobro @robbyds @T.C

The article shed some light to the questions I raised. MJD is always very informative although I should point out that he does make mistakes sometimes. In his own article of fake 10 million sellers, he stated that TVR sold 8.5M (not 10M) and that Control, RN and janet all crossed the 10M mark. Now, TVR is at 7.5M and Control at 9.2M. He also used to quote the same 2.4M sales of Damita Jo which EMI reported when he was active in UkMix.org but made an assumption now that 1M copies were shipped back. All in all a very enlightening article. So happy that he did Janet first!

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by robbyds

[T.C]

1 hour ago, Eternium said:

http://chartmasters.org/2017/04/cspc-janet-jackson-popularity-analysis/

 

Wiw  Any comments on the article? @slobro @robbyds @T.C

Hmm still skeptical. 

 

His Aussie sales are all over the place

 

Why is Control listed at 100k in Aus when it wasn't even certified gold or plat?

[ECNEICSNOC]

1 hour ago, Eternium said:

They are. They fall under "Other Releases" along with live EPs and remix albums. He does this because compilations cannibalize sales.

 

For example, Pink Floyd have incredible catalog stats on their original studio albums that dwarf their peers and make their albums look much bigger. However, their peers have huge compilation albums that give a more full look of the lasting popularity of their releases.

You're a decade late, sis. He has some flaws, but nobody will ever be 100% accurate with counting music sales and he's easily the most reliable WW so far.

Ok this makes sense!

 

They will eventually need to update the Spotify:other streaming platforms ratio for the acts they've already done this for. 

[Eternium]

43 minutes ago, robbyds said:

The article shed some light to the questions I raised. MJD is always very informative although I should point out that he does make mistakes sometimes. In his own article of fake 10 million sellers, he stated that TVR sold 8.5M (not 10M) and that Control, RN and janet all crossed the 10M mark. Now, TVR is at 7.5M and Control at 9.2M. He also used to quote the same 2.4M sales of Damita Jo which EMI reported when he was active at UkMix but made an assumptions now that 1M copies were shipped back.

 

All in all a very enlightening article. So happy that he did Janet first!

 

He definitely gets some numbers a bit wrong (he did Oops!...I Did It Again short by like 1.5M), but he does put a lot of time going back in and double-checking his statements. As new stats roll in, I'm sure he'll get even more accurate.

35 minutes ago, T.C said:

Hmm still skeptical. 

 

His Aussie sales are all over the place

 

Why is Control listed at 100k in Aus when it wasn't even certified gold or plat?

What Have You Done For Me Lately - #6

Nasty - #17

When I Think Of You - #53

Control - #82

Let's Wait Awhile - #21

The Pleasure Principle - #50

Funny How Time Flies - N/A

 

I can't find its chart run but it spent 30 weeks on the charts in NZ and peaked at #5. She might not have certified in AUS but it was one of her bigger markets and she had good longevity with the Control era.

11 minutes ago, ECNEICSNOC said:

Ok this makes sense!

 

They will eventually need to update the Spotify:other streaming platforms ratio for the acts they've already done this for. 

Hopefully he waits at least 5 years for each update. Allow the artists to rack up catalog stats. Also, Apple Music should add stream counts by then.

[T.C]

1 hour ago, Eternium said:

He definitely gets some numbers a bit wrong (he did Oops!...I Did It Again short by like 1.5M), but he does put a lot of time going back in and double-checking his statements. As new stats roll in, I'm sure he'll get even more accurate.

What Have You Done For Me Lately - #6

Nasty - #17

When I Think Of You - #53

Control - #82

Let's Wait Awhile - #21

The Pleasure Principle - #50

Funny How Time Flies - N/A

 

I can't find its chart run but it spent 30 weeks on the charts in NZ and peaked at #5. She might not have certified in AUS but it was one of her bigger markets and she had good longevity with the Control era.

Hopefully he waits at least 5 years for each update. Allow the artists to rack up catalog stats. Also, Apple Music should add stream counts by then.

Controls album chart run in the top 50

 

48-49-31-29-26-25-31-25-30-31-34-35-40 44-43-48 

 

At best, she could have scored a gold cert with this but 100k? Unlikely 

 

Also, RN, Janet and TVR are also certified the same but he's got their numbers far apart too. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by T.C

[OffTheWall]

In this 2001 video they claim her album sales are over 50 million WW. If you add all her post 2001 albums and catalog sales, 60 million is reasonable. 

 

I don't think chartmasters underestimated her.

Almost 60 million albums is good  

Edited April 17, 2017 by OffTheWall

[Dreajae]

10 hours ago, Eternium said:

Am I the only one really impressed by Unbreakable's sales? And she's moved more solo album equivalents than Rihanna, Beyonce, Taylor Swift and Adele. I underestimated her  

 Janet has 11 albums. 7 albums from when albums sales were at it's peak in the 80s-late 90s.

 

Her streaming and back catalog is abominable. Theyll pass her next release.