base talk Is Taylor Swift a legend?

[Extremely Stable]

A living legend yes!

[on the line]

10 hours ago, prézli said:

Absolutely not. What's her impact? Going pop from country?

She's got that red lip, classic thing that we like!

[Odette Violet]

Not yet. She'll get there. 

[gustavothehuman]

Of course she is a legend. And the "no impact" allegations are actually hilarious because it takes one google search to see that Wikipedia has pages such as:

 

Cultural impact of Taylor Swift (with more than 570 references)

Impact of the Eras Tour (with more than 280 references)

Taylor Swift masters dispute (with more than 180 references)

Taylor Swift–Ticketmaster controversy (with more than 130 references)

Swifties (with more than 150 references)

 

If she decides to retire tomorrow her legacy is already massive and well registered. Imagine how things will be by the end of this decade. 

[alestevens]

28 minutes ago, JaXXXon said:

No but Gaga's Poker Face, Shallow and Bad Romance are overall bigger hits in Europe than any Taylor song both on the charts and certifications. 

 

Taylor has been around for 17 years and a decade relevant in Europe (depends on who you ask, some claim it started in 2008), so after 10 studio albums and all those singles and albums she still hasn't caught up to Gaga in Europe? Gaga had three monster eras in Europe so that tells you who is overall more popular. I agree Taylor is right now but even then Dua Lipa currently is very popular I'd say as well. 

 

The touring gross. Man, do you know that Harry Styles broke Michael Jackson's record? Do you know that the entire top 5 of the biggest tours will consist of tours from last year and this? Harry, Coldplay, Beyoncé and Taylor? So just because Taylor booked the biggest tour in Europe doesn't mean she's bigger than Madonna there unless you mean Harry Styles and Beyoncé are bigger than Michael Jackson and Coldplay is bigger than Madonna. 

When i said biggest female stadium tour i actually meant attendance and amount of dates, not gross. But yeah, she will also have the highest grossing female tour of all time in Europe too.

 

And yeah. Its harder to catch up when pure sales fell off a cliff, but she is still way more significant on the charts right now than Gaga has been since like, 2012. And Taylor is way bigger than Dua Lipa, not exactly a valid comparison

 

UK Album Chart:

#11 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#12 Taylor Swift - folklore

#13 Taylor Swift - 1989

#15 Taylor Swift - Lover

#19 Taylor Swift - reputation

#34 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#35 Taylor Swift - evermore

#45 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#80 Lady Gaga - The Fame

#92 Taylor Swift - Fearless (Taylor's Version)

#96 Dua Lipa - Dua Lipa

 

German Album Chart:

#22 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#28 Taylor Swift - folklore

#35 Taylor Swift - Lover

#36 Taylor Swift - 1989

#38 Taylor Swift - reputation

#40 Taylor Swift - Speak Now

#63 Taylor Swift - evermore

#66 Taylor Swift - Red

#72 Lady Gaga - The Fame

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Ireland Album Chart:

#6 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#7 Taylor Swift - folklore

#11 Taylor Swift - 1989

#12 Taylor Swift - Lover

#15 Taylor Swift - reputation

#20 Taylor Swift - evermore

#26 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#40 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Austria Album Chart:
#15 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#17 Taylor Swift - Lover

#20 Taylor Swift - 1989

#23 Taylor Swift - reputation

#24 Taylor Swift - folklore

#29 Taylor Swift - Speak Now

#48 Taylor Swift - Red

#49 Taylor Swift - evermore

#53 Lady Gaga - The Fame

 

Netherlands Album Chart:

#5 Taylor Swift - Lover

#7 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#12 Taylor Swift - 1989

#14 Taylor Swift - folklore

#28 Taylor Swift - reputation

#39 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#46 Taylor Swift - evermore

#48 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#85 Lady Gaga - The Fame

#87 Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia

#94 Lady Gaga & Bradley Cooper - A Star Is Born

 

Sweden Album Chart:
#19 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#24 Taylor Swift - 1989

#27 Taylor Swift - Lover

#32 Lady Gaga - The Fame Monster

#40 Taylor Swift - folklore

#58 Taylor Swift - reputation

 

Denmark Album Chart:

#16 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#17 Taylor Swift - Lover

#28 Taylor Swift - 1989

#33 Taylor Swift - folklore

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

 

France Album Chart:

#69 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#99 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#180 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#195 Taylor Swift - evermore

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Poland Album Chart:

#44 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#89 Taylor Swift - reputation

#90 Taylor Swift - Lover

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

[Bloo]

I genuinely think a decade ago people on here were saying, “Not yet, but maybe in 10 years.”

[Enrique523]

If TAYLOR SWIFT of all people isn't a legend, then almost none of the pop girls this site worships are legends either 

 

She's the 4th best selling female artist of all time and is only going up from there. She reached her absolute commercial peak 17 years into her career and is going to continue being massively successful for years to come. Of course she's a legend 

[Redstreak]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:34 PM, AxelFox said:

No, I don't think so.

 

I mean, you could say her commercial success is legendary but the actual music, artistry and talent are definitely not on par for her to occupy that lane in music history. 
 

I do not see her be regarded in the same breath as the likes of Michael Jackson, Madonna, Mariah Carey, Prince and so on in the future; artists that have actually pushed boundaries and challenged the way we listen and experience pop music and culture. 
 

But then again this forum calls anyone a legend and the bar is in hell so...  

she’s been name dropped with The Beatles and Billy Joel on a multitude of occasions 

[Enrique523]

I can't believe some people are still trying to argue Gaga is bigger than Taylor 

 

Gaga was bigger in 2008-2010 WW but that's it. Taylor has been beating her on that front ever since and she's reached a bigger overall peak than Gaga this year alone, 17 YEARS INTO HER CAREER 

 

 

[JaXXXon]

23 hours ago, alestevens said:

When i said biggest female stadium tour i actually meant attendance and amount of dates, not gross. But yeah, she will also have the highest grossing female tour of all time in Europe too.

 

And yeah. Its harder to catch up when pure sales fell off a cliff, but she is still way more significant on the charts right now than Gaga has been since like, 2012. And Taylor is way bigger than Dua Lipa, not exactly a valid comparison

 

UK Album Chart:

#11 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#12 Taylor Swift - folklore

#13 Taylor Swift - 1989

#15 Taylor Swift - Lover

#19 Taylor Swift - reputation

#34 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#35 Taylor Swift - evermore

#45 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#80 Lady Gaga - The Fame

#92 Taylor Swift - Fearless (Taylor's Version)

#96 Dua Lipa - Dua Lipa

 

German Album Chart:

#22 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#28 Taylor Swift - folklore

#35 Taylor Swift - Lover

#36 Taylor Swift - 1989

#38 Taylor Swift - reputation

#40 Taylor Swift - Speak Now

#63 Taylor Swift - evermore

#66 Taylor Swift - Red

#72 Lady Gaga - The Fame

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Ireland Album Chart:

#6 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#7 Taylor Swift - folklore

#11 Taylor Swift - 1989

#12 Taylor Swift - Lover

#15 Taylor Swift - reputation

#20 Taylor Swift - evermore

#26 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#40 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Austria Album Chart:
#15 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#17 Taylor Swift - Lover

#20 Taylor Swift - 1989

#23 Taylor Swift - reputation

#24 Taylor Swift - folklore

#29 Taylor Swift - Speak Now

#48 Taylor Swift - Red

#49 Taylor Swift - evermore

#53 Lady Gaga - The Fame

 

Netherlands Album Chart:

#5 Taylor Swift - Lover

#7 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#12 Taylor Swift - 1989

#14 Taylor Swift - folklore

#28 Taylor Swift - reputation

#39 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#46 Taylor Swift - evermore

#48 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#85 Lady Gaga - The Fame

#87 Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia

#94 Lady Gaga & Bradley Cooper - A Star Is Born

 

Sweden Album Chart:
#19 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#24 Taylor Swift - 1989

#27 Taylor Swift - Lover

#32 Lady Gaga - The Fame Monster

#40 Taylor Swift - folklore

#58 Taylor Swift - reputation

 

Denmark Album Chart:

#16 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#17 Taylor Swift - Lover

#28 Taylor Swift - 1989

#33 Taylor Swift - folklore

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

 

France Album Chart:

#69 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#99 Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

#180 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#195 Taylor Swift - evermore

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Poland Album Chart:

#44 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#89 Taylor Swift - reputation

#90 Taylor Swift - Lover

N/A Lady Gaga

N/A Dua Lipa

Right now, yeah. But right now Harry's House is also higher on charts than Thriller. Like, the point is that she's reached more people because she had a bigger peak in Europe and because of said peak she's become a household name in Poland, for example. 

 

Dua is charting better than Madonna. Is she bigger than her? Like, we're talking overall sales. Taylor has not reached Gaga's sales in Europe yet therefore Gaga is bigger. 

[queenoftheclouds]

She is. 

[alestevens]

17 hours ago, JaXXXon said:

Right now, yeah. But right now Harry's House is also higher on charts than Thriller. Like, the point is that she's reached more people because she had a bigger peak in Europe and because of said peak she's become a household name in Poland, for example. 

 

Dua is charting better than Madonna. Is she bigger than her? Like, we're talking overall sales. Taylor has not reached Gaga's sales in Europe yet therefore Gaga is bigger. 

This is once again a false equivalency. No one is bigger than another person because of one smash album, especially when that one was just released. Taylor's case is completely different, because she's been active and on the top echelons of the music charts for longer than Gaga has been, and her entire discography has surged even in harsh markets for old albums such as Germany. Taylor has many old albums performing better than smash albums that were released this decade, and that are currently outperforming the biggest classics albums off her contemporaries' discographies.

 

I know it's hard to grasp the stratospheric level of success Taylor is enjoying right now because it's never happened before, but it may be easier to put it into context comparing it with how some of the hottest names of this decade are performing in Europe (excluding albums released less than a year ago):

 

UK Album Chart Top 100:

#11 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#12 Taylor Swift - folklore

#13 Taylor Swift - 1989

#15 Taylor Swift - Lover

#19 Taylor Swift - reputation

#21 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#33 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#35 Taylor Swift - evermore

#45 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#63 Harry Styles - Fine Line

#92 Taylor Swift - Fearless (Taylor's Version)

#96 Dua Lipa - Dua Lipa

#99 Billie Eilish - Don't Smile At Me

 

German Album Chart Top 100:

#22 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#28 Taylor Swift - folklore

#35 Taylor Swift - Lover

#36 Taylor Swift - 1989

#38 Taylor Swift - reputation

#51 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#56 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#63 Taylor Swift - evermore

#66 Taylor Swift - Red

#96 Harry Styles - Fine Line

N/A Billie Eilish

 

Ireland Album Chart Top 50:

#6 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#7 Taylor Swift - folklore

#11 Taylor Swift - 1989

#12 Taylor Swift - Lover

#14 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#15 Taylor Swift - reputation

#20 Taylor Swift - evermore

#23 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#40 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)
#44 Harry Styles - Fine Line

N/A Dua Lipa

N/A Billie Eilish

 

Austria Album Chart Top 60:
#15 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#17 Taylor Swift - Lover

#20 Taylor Swift - 1989

#22 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#23 Taylor Swift - reputation

#24 Taylor Swift - folklore

#28 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#48 Taylor Swift - Red

#49 Taylor Swift - evermore

#57 Harry Styles - Fine Line

N/A Billie Eilish

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Netherlands Album Chart Top 100:

#5 Taylor Swift - Lover

#7 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#12 Taylor Swift - 1989

#13 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#14 Taylor Swift - folklore

#23 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#28 Taylor Swift - reputation

#38 Harry Styles - Fine Line

#46 Taylor Swift - evermore

#48 Taylor Swift - Red (Taylor's Version)

#53 Billie Eilish - When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?

#57 Billie Eilish - Happier Than Ever

#87 Dua Lipa - Future Nostalgia

 

Sweden Album Chart Top 60:
#19 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#24 Taylor Swift - 1989

#27 Taylor Swift - Lover

#38 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

#40 Taylor Swift - folklore

#46 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#58 Taylor Swift - reputation

N/A Billie Eilish

N/A Dua Lipa

 

Denmark Album Chart Top 40:

#16 Taylor Swift - Midnights

#17 Taylor Swift - Lover

#28 Taylor Swift - 1989

#32 Harry Styles - Harry's House

#33 Taylor Swift - folklore

#40 Olivia Rodrigo - SOUR

N/A Billie Eilish

[applestar]

Yes but her discography wont age well at all aside from Fearless (Fearless TV) and 1989 original version

[kendoll2001]

I'd say "legend" is reserved for someone of a certain age, but she definitely will be when all is said and done. 

[Sabrina Carpenter]

calling this thread, which is asking if one of the biggest female artists in history is a legend, a setup is hilarious 

 

 

[Rev8]

Maybe something like Celine

she is like the 2nd best selling female artist behind Madonna

but for some reason, she doesn't hold as much impact (outside of sales ig) and influence as Whitney or Mariah

tbh, even Janet has a bigger blueprint than Celine at this point.

 

So I think it will be the same for Taylor

her stans are already pushing the "she has sold../had hits../tours..", and try to push that she is standing next to Madonna or MJ

when it's not , MJ and Madonna have sales, but they also have huge influence and changed the world in different ways. They pushed the envelope.

 

 

I am a fan of Taylor and it's funny because even when I give her compliments how she changes the industry in her own way (positive)

-her fans instantly attack me because I didn't say more

But it's the truth at this point. The Swifties and Hive are going at each other rn, altho Taylor has had bigger success than Beyonce overall for some time now, why reply?

Especially now when the only way Beyonce is rivaling Taylor, is with her tour (and she is not even going to edge her out or be equal from calculations) - They reply because Beyonce feels much bigger than her sales..she makes people turn her heads as much as Taylor, but with much less sales/hits etc..

(and that is not to say that Beyonce is a smaller legend because she doesn't have the sales that Taylor has )

[flashfox]

Yes

[Magickarp]

On Earth we call her a suburban legend, yes 

 

[Comedor]

No, she’s a successful pop girl and that’s it.

[adylovestaylorandjb]

On 10/23/2023 at 1:48 AM, Enrique523 said:

I can't believe some people are still trying to argue Gaga is bigger than Taylor 

 

Gaga was bigger in 2008-2010 WW but that's it. Taylor has been beating her on that front ever since and she's reached a bigger overall peak than Gaga this year alone, 17 YEARS INTO HER CAREER 

 

 

They are stuck in past. 

[HEAVYONIT]

Legend? No. Massively successful? Yes

[HEAVYONIT]

On 10/22/2023 at 10:18 PM, Enrique523 said:

I can't believe some people are still trying to argue Gaga is bigger than Taylor 

 

Gaga was bigger in 2008-2010 WW but that's it. Taylor has been beating her on that front ever since and she's reached a bigger overall peak than Gaga this year alone, 17 YEARS INTO HER CAREER 

 

 

NUMBERS aren't the only thing that make you a legend. Your IMPACT on music is a huge piece too. Taylor has the numbers but she has not done anything revolutionary in music besides release fun bops and successful songs/album. Gaga's music/videography, while be it in the past, influenced/changed Pop music way more than anything Taylor has released, let's be real. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by HEAVYONIT

[HappierJealousy]

Just now, HEAVYONIT said:

NUMBERS aren't the only thing that make you a legend. Your IMPACT on music is a huge piece too. Taylor has the numbers but she has not done anything revolutionary in music besides release fun bops and successful songs/album. Gaga's music, while be it in the past, influenced/changed Pop music way more than anything Taylor has released, let's be real. 

Gaga’s music change what exactly? 

[HEAVYONIT]

13 minutes ago, HappierJealousy said:

Gaga’s music change what exactly? 

Were you alive during The Fame / The Fame Monster / Born this Way?? Apparently not

[HappierJealousy]

1 hour ago, HEAVYONIT said:

NUMBERS aren't the only thing that make you a legend. Your IMPACT on music is a huge piece too. Taylor has the numbers but she has not done anything revolutionary in music besides release fun bops and successful songs/album. Gaga's music/videography, while be it in the past, influenced/changed Pop music way more than anything Taylor has released, let's be real. 

 

45 minutes ago, HEAVYONIT said:

Were you alive during The Fame / The Fame Monster / Born this Way?? Apparently not

 

Look at here guys, this whole essay is just a great example of the typical delusion of the little monster  They really believe Gaga actually “change” something musically, but in fact she just followed the trend and released a very successful album during the electronic pop trend at the end of 2000s. She was not even the first MPG to follow that sound (It was Britney). More ironically, both the trend and Gaga’s career ended immediately and almost at the same time  She DID NOT change anything in music, she DID NOT invent anything special, all the thing she has done was already done by Janet, Kylie or Madonna.

 

Meanwhile, Taylor Swift is one of the biggest reason why female singer-songwriter(Lana/SZA/Olivia) is dominating the world recently, her success proves that a female artist can be the biggest pop star in the world even though she only rely on her own pen, writing her own personal story, or even though she used to be country artist. She proves that a solo female can also move people to watch her concert like MJ/Elton and those rock bands. She is so special and she is THE FIRST FEMALE in so many different aspects in music history, and that’s we called IMPACT that Gaga could only wish, and she will keep her impact on next generation artists like Olivia.
 

If anything Gaga has impacted, is that the wigs, gimmicks and meat dress can only give you a cute 3-years career, and she will also keep impacting artists like…Ava Max 

Edited October 26, 2023 by HappierJealousy