charts discussion US: Taylor Swift has now sold 16M+ album units in 2024 → 1.7% industry market share

[DevilsRollTheDice]

2 hours ago, Doctor Dick said:

Minimizing?  I'm not minimizing just because I'm giving factual arguments. It sounds like if anyone says Taylor isn't the biggest artist of all time it's hating on her. 

 

As I said, she's impressive but it's beyond disrespectful to write off a huge name like Michael Jackson's record-breaking achievements just to optimize your fave's accomplishments. 

One of the best ways to compare Taylor to older acts without verified sales is to compare her performance relative to her peers. This year, in the US, Drake is #2 and has moved roughly 1/3 of Taylor's total units. The great acts of the 60s, 70s, and 80s had commercial peers and competitors. Taylor is blowing everyone that debuted after 1990 so far out of the water that it doesn't make logical sense to compare her commercial domination to any artist that might be considered her peer. Even the ones that debuted in the 90s before the collapse of music sales and loss of monoculture aren't close to touching her success.

 

The music industry has changed RADICALLY in so many ways. Taylor's utter commercial domination over her peers is singular. Billboard and many other publications frequently acknowledge this but ATRL can't face the music. 

Edited October 22 by DevilsRollTheDice

[Doctor Dick]

9 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

One of the best ways to compare Taylor to older acts without verified sales is to compare her performance relative to her peers. This year, in the US, Drake is #2 and has moved roughly 1/3 of Taylor's total units. The great acts of the 60s, 70s, and 80s had commercial peers and competitors. Taylor is blowing everyone that debuted after 1990 so far out of the water that it doesn't make logical sense to compare her commercial domination to any artist that might be considered her peer. Even the ones that debuted in the 90s before the collapse of music sales and loss of monoculture aren't close to touching her success.

 

The music industry has changed RADICALLY in so many ways. Taylor's utter commercial domination over her peers is singular. Billboard and many other publications frequently acknowledge this but ATRL can't face the music. 

I agree. But the radical shift comes with streaming. It has changed music consumption in ways that are just hard to compare to ways from the past. But there's also the fact that Taylor releases two albums a year and variants and while I do agree none of her peers have demand to do that it also inflates her overall units. 

 

But again this had more to with the fact that someone posted that she was bigger than Michael Jackson which is just untrue. But her peak is undeniably impressive. 

Edited October 22 by Doctor Dick

[DevilsRollTheDice]

5 minutes ago, Doctor Dick said:

I agree. But the radical shift comes with streaming. It has changed music consumption in ways that are just hard to compare to ways from the past. But there's also the fact that Taylor releases two albums a year and variants and while I do agree none of her peers have demand to do that it also inflates her overall units. 

 

But again this had more to with the fact that someone posted that she was bigger than Michael Jackson which is just untrue. But her peak is undeniably impressive. 

I think we have common ground here. I will say that the variants of the old days were compilation and greatest hits albums that bagged tens of millions of units for big artists. Those don't work post-streaming. 

Additionally, other artists that debuted after the 2000s (and thus artists who reap the perceived benefits of streaming/variants) aren't anywhere close to Taylor's units/success or even breaking into all-time lists including older acts. There's a real case to be made that Taylor is climbing these lists despite the handicap of the current climate which makes her success even more extraordinary.  
 

I agree that it will always be hard to directly compare artists because of these changes. I also still think Taylor's strongest claim is how much bigger she is than any of her peers who would have the same perceived benefits. The gap is bigger than the old days.  

[Doctor Dick]

13 minutes ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

I think we have common ground here. I will say that the variants of the old days were compilation and greatest hits albums that bagged tens of millions of units for big artists. Those don't work post-streaming. 

Additionally, other artists that debuted after the 2000s (and thus artists who reap the perceived benefits of streaming/variants) aren't anywhere close to Taylor's units/success or even breaking into all-time lists including older acts. There's a real case to be made that Taylor is climbing these lists despite the handicap of the current climate which makes her success even more extraordinary.  
 

I agree that it will always be hard to directly compare artists because of these changes. I also still think Taylor's strongest claim is how much bigger she is than any of her peers who would have the same perceived benefits. The gap is bigger than the old days.  

Yeah I agree except for the compilation part. A huge chunk of sales in the 90s-2000s also came from compilation sets with various artists which was a way for the casual music fans to experience music without investing too much into one artist. The basic equivalent of that would be people listening to Today's Top Hits and whatever is smashing right now. The difference here is that in the streaming era those 'units' are all factored into every artist's sales whereas the sales of NOW! That's What I Call Music did not. And because single sales were dead in the early 2000s that was a way to get a hit without paying for the album. So 2000s acts lost a lot of sales on that in an era where people were still using torrent sites to download albums as well. That isn't a problem anymore and we should also look at how Taylor has an advantage here. Every single time someone listens to Cruel Summer it directly affects her sales whereas when someone listened to Jenny From The Block in 2002 from a compilation set (or a torrent) did not contribute to J.Lo's sales. 

 

All of these factors make it so hard to compare. 

Edited October 22 by Doctor Dick

[Arrows]

8 hours ago, awesomepossum said:

bigger than michael jackson? or the beatles?

Like I said, in recorded history

[Maroonx]

12 hours ago, AmericanIdol said:

Just that?

 

I thought it would be like 30M or something. Very underwhelming.

how many copies did your fav sell this year? 

 

Oh wait, 143 is OUT - OUT already 

 

[TheArgonaut]

The BIGGEST solo artist of all time

 

[Taemira]

She's really the female BTS huh? nobody cares about her music cept for white gays and girls.

[zzmyth]

24 minutes ago, Taemira said:

She's really the female BTS huh? nobody cares about her music cept for white gays and girls.

I am a white gay... and I'm not in the caring group... so...

[Enrique523]

And she only released one album so people can't even use the "mass releasing" excuse 

 

Her albums's longevity in the charts is what's giving her those massive numbers. The sooner people realise it the better we'll all be.

[WildHeart]

39 minutes ago, Taemira said:

She's really the female BTS huh? nobody cares about her music cept for white gays and girls.

Year End Artists Chart Top 20

#1 Taylor 

OUT BTS

OUT Gaga 

 

They are more similar to someone else

Edited October 22 by WildHeart

[Enrique523]

15 hours ago, Doctor Dick said:

What Taylor is doing is huge and amazing. Let's start there. 

 

But no. Michael Jackson's peak sales or Elvis' and Madonna's were not tracked in half of Europe and Africa and Asia and Latin America since there were no organizations like the IFPI and most of the consumption in those continents was illegal and driven by bootlegged versions of albums at a cheaper price. Taylor's are all from legimitate sources and she's peaking at a time when the IFPI can track legal sales from all those continents. And when taking into account that Michael's LEGAL units from HALF of the world still outsold CURRENT Taylor it's safe to say she is simply not. With all due respect to her super impressive achievements. 

You can stop these games please? You've already made very clear what your feelings about her are in that thread about her 2019 speech, you have an irrational hatred of her. Stop pretending to be "respectful" of her accomplishments when you ****-shamed her and pretended she was the worst person alive just because you felt like it 

 

Also, don't pretend you care about MJ, Elvis and Madonna's sales records (especially Madonna, you Liddos have pretended her career stopped existing the moment Gaga appeared ). You just want to attack Taylor, you don't care about anything else 

[Enrique523]

15 hours ago, anastaciabby said:

haven't you been trying to minimize her with this argument many times now in different threads?  people don't get tired on here 

Exactly. He's not being objective here in any way, he just blindly hates her, discrediting her is all those people do all the time 

[DevilsRollTheDice]

11 hours ago, Doctor Dick said:

Yeah I agree except for the compilation part. A huge chunk of sales in the 90s-2000s also came from compilation sets with various artists which was a way for the casual music fans to experience music without investing too much into one artist. The basic equivalent of that would be people listening to Today's Top Hits and whatever is smashing right now. The difference here is that in the streaming era those 'units' are all factored into every artist's sales whereas the sales of NOW! That's What I Call Music did not. And because single sales were dead in the early 2000s that was a way to get a hit without paying for the album. So 2000s acts lost a lot of sales on that in an era where people were still using torrent sites to download albums as well. That isn't a problem anymore and we should also look at how Taylor has an advantage here. Every single time someone listens to Cruel Summer it directly affects her sales whereas when someone listened to Jenny From The Block in 2002 from a compilation set (or a torrent) did not contribute to J.Lo's sales. 

 

All of these factors make it so hard to compare. 

That's a good point about albums like TWICM. My parents had so many of those lol. 
 

Compilation albums also include greats hits though and those do count for artists' total sales. Often greatest hits albums are among the biggest and most successful albums in an artist's catalogue. Michael, Madonna, and The Beatles all added 10s of millions of units from greatest hits albums. Streaming erases the need for such a release as you can easily assemble your own playlists.

While it is nice that Cruel Summer adds micro album units every time it's streamed, we know it doesn't make up the difference for collapsing old school album sales. If it did other modern artists would be doing much better on all-time lists. To me, that's the core of it.

 

Further, Taylor kinda debuted at the worst time possible to build catalogue sales. Her first album was released just as music sales collapsed and piracy flooded the market. She also weathered the digital music collapse. Her early music was also heavily consumed on these compilation albums that don't count. She was already 6 albums in when the shift occurred to the streaming era. That shift heavily damaged the commercial performance of her 2000s peers. 
 

Not only is Taylor's career unique because of her raw numbers, but I'm not sure any other artist remained at the undisputed top for three versions of the music industry. The Beatles, Michael, and Madonna all earned the vast bulk of their units in one (better) way. Taylor has remained atop through two major industry collapses that severely stunted her peers. 
 

At the end of the day, if Taylor has special advantages from new music industry norms that would reflect elsewhere. The opposite is true. Artists who debuted after 1990 struggle to enter these all-time lists. The only logical conclusion is that it is harder now which makes Taylor's claim for the biggest artist of all time (especially stateside) that much stronger.

Edited October 22 by DevilsRollTheDice

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, Taemira said:

She's really the female BTS huh? nobody cares about her music cept for white gays and girls.

You've just described Gaga there 

 

How do you explain that Taylor is so much more successful than everyone else if her appeal is supposedly more limited than other popstars? Can ANY OTH actually give a serious answer to that question? If other popstars supposedly appeal to more groups of people then why aren't they more successful than her? 

[Ms. Togekiss]

How many did she move each year this decade?

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, DevilsRollTheDice said:

That's a good point about albums like TWICM. My parents had so many of those lol. 
 

Compilation albums also include greats hits though and those do count for artists' total sales. Often greatest hits albums are among the biggest and most successful albums in an artist's catalogue. Michael, Madonna, and The Beatles all added 10s of millions of units from greatest hits albums. Streaming erases the need for such a release as you can easily assemble your own playlists.

While it is nice that Cruel Summer adds micro album units every time it's streamed, we know it doesn't make up the difference for collapsing old school album sales. If it did other modern artists would be doing much better on all-time lists. To me, that's the core of it.

 

Further, Taylor kinda debuted at the worst time possible to build catalogue sales. Her first album was released just as music sales collapsed and piracy flooded the market. She also weathered the digital music collapse. Her early music was also heavily consumed on these compilation albums that don't count. She was already 6 albums in when the shift occurred to the streaming era. That shift heavily damaged the commercial performance of her 2000s peers. 
 

Not only is Taylor's career unique because of her raw numbers, but I'm not sure any other artist remained at the undisputed top for three versions of the music industry. The Beatles, Michael, and Madonna all earned the vast bulk of their units in one (better) way. Taylor has remained atop through two major industry collapses that severely stunted her peers. 

You need to stop trying to debate with that user, he's not arguing in good faith. He's just gonna ignore any point that isn't convenient to him 

[Calvin]

1 hour ago, Taemira said:

She's really the female BTS huh? nobody cares about her music cept for white gays and girls.

Yet you keep fuming in every one of Taylor's threads. 

Edited October 22 by Calvin

[Feanor]

1 hour ago, Ms. Togekiss said:

How many did she move each year this decade?

2024: 15M+

2023: 18.9M

2022: 9.2M

2021: 7.2M

 

There are no numbers for 2020 afaik, but probably 1-2M less than 2021.

[Cruel Summer]

36 minutes ago, Feanor said:

2024: 15M+

2023: 18.9M

2022: 9.2M

2021: 7.2M

 

There are no numbers for 2020 afaik, but probably 1-2M less than 2021.

Over 50m units in the US alone in 4 years 

[yourfaveisaflop]

Mother 

[Klein]

Damn, she's truly killing it! 

 

I wonder if she has a chance to top 2023 with The Anthology + The Eras Tour back in the US. If she has a big surprise or two up her sleeve, it's not impossible (and she's also usually really huge on physicals during the Christmas season). 

[Enrique523]

1 hour ago, Klein said:

Damn, she's truly killing it! 

 

I wonder if she has a chance to top 2023 with The Anthology + The Eras Tour back in the US. If she has a big surprise or two up her sleeve, it's not impossible (and she's also usually really huge on physicals during the Christmas season). 

We'll see but honestly it's not big deal if she doesn't. She already reached an insane peak, everything else is a bonus at this point.

[45seconds]

18 hours ago, Badgalbriel said:

Of course not right now. Let's give her 6 or 7 more years 

You said we can already announce it. So which is it?  She is currently not bigger than MJ, Elvis or Madonna in terms of all time solo prominence. 

Edited October 22 by 45seconds

[Mr. Duff]

Everytime there's a huge record that Taylor achieves, I feel like it's always swarmed by doubters, haters and "analysts" because it has now looked "usual" for Taylor to get these achievements, but it is obviously rare and near impossible for a lot of other artists to achieve what she has done.

 

Impressive, superb, brilliant, outstanding, excellent - I've run out of adjectives on how to describe Taylor's massiveness and impact. When people say it's just numbers with no impact, I'm pleasantly surprised because these numbers will actually sustain the impact she has over some qualitative "feel" of impact that is forgotten in a few years time.