Communion Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Just now, dumbsparce said: It is a medical fact that you can not change you sex. You can alter it sure I'm sorry but how are you complaining about people ignoring supposed factual reality yet falling to understand both scientific consensus and the English language. Again, defining sex by chromosomes is not the scientific consensus. Whatever image you have In mind about what is scientific consensus on sex is not well-informed. And I genuinely would rather not do the song and dance of searching the word "trans" in your post history - cause I know what I would find - so sister maybe take 2 steps back. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburbannature Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 It's honestly shocking how difficult it is for society (including people within the LGBTQ community) to understand that gender is a spectrum and the experience of having a gender identity separate from your physical body is a very real experience for many people. It takes so little effort to have empathy for others' experiences or to try to gain an understanding without resorting to oversimplification and hate speech. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbsparce Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Communion said: I'm sorry but how are you complaining about people ignoring supposed factual reality yet falling to understand both scientific consensus and the English language. Again, defining sex by chromosomes is not the scientific consensus. Whatever image you have In mind about what is scientific consensus on sex is not well-informed. And I genuinely would rather not do the song and dance of searching the word "trans" in your post history - cause I know what I would find - so sister maybe take 2 steps back. You're literally making stuff up. No doctor/biologist in the world will tell you that someone's sex can not be 99.99% predicted by their chromosomes (or vice versa). I don't care about your twitter or tiktok sources that are specifically catered to your flawed perception of what is factual and what is not. And this has nothing to do with someone's gender identity. That's an entirely different topic, like everyone with more than 5 brain cells can understand. Edited May 1 by dumbsparce 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suburbannature Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 8 minutes ago, dumbsparce said: It is a medical fact that you can not change you sex. You can alter it sure, but your chromosomes will always remain the same. That's not to say that an XY person can't live their life as a woman and be treated and respected as such but it's this exact rhetoric of yours that refuses to align with logic and scientific facts that has lead to the rampant transphobia we see in the world right now. Well, I am a medical professional unlike yourself and I can say that has been well-established that you can change your sex. We have a significant amount of research exhibiting that individuals experiencing gender dysphoria have brain chemistry that closely resembles their expressed identity as opposed to what was assigned at birth. Furthermore, these individuals did not choose this experience and it can often take years to overcome denial, confusion, and external marginalization to understand and accept their identity . Some never reach that point. A little empathy goes a long way. 5 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Communion Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 minutes ago, dumbsparce said: You're literally making stuff up. No doctor/biologist in the world will tell you that someone's sex can not be 99.99% predicted by their chromosomes (or vice versa) American Medical Association: Quote Sex and gender are similar concepts. Both are socially constructed, and per AMA policies H-65.962 and H65.967, it is appropriate to affirm each individual's self-determination regarding both sex and gender labels. Gender describes someone's inner sense of being a woman, a man, another gender or genders, or no gender at all. Gender categories are reflections of historical, cultural, and social mores. An individual's gender may or may not align with what the larger society perceives their physical traits to be or what sex they may have been assigned at birth. Someone is cisgender if they identify their gender with the sex category they were assigned at birth. Someone is transgender if they identify their gender as fully or partially different from the sex category they were assigned at birth. Sex is a characteristic often externally assigned to individuals to describe their assumed genotype and/or phenotype. These physical traits, however, are made up of many diverse components. Many people mistakenly think of sex categories as unchanging and exclusively male or female. Quote Neither gender nor sex are stable, objective categories, though impacts of physiological structures on health are real, as are the impacts of how people are perceived or treated within a society. https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/cme-issue-brief-sex-gender-medical-education.pdf 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonourableVomit Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 30 minutes ago, Relampago. said: Trans people are not responsible for inflation. They are not responsible for world affairs. They are not responsible for an immigration crisis. They are not responsible for climate change. And yet, there is more action against them than any of these things that actually cause people harm because as long as there's a scapegoat for people to point at, then the people on top always win. To my knowledge, there is a shortage of doctors in the UK, leading to people in general not being able to receive care. THAT is a serious problem, but again, has nothing to do with trans people. Regardless of facts and debates around them, it's all a moot point. No one actually cares once you get down to it, they're just made to believe they do. you ate that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbsparce Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 2 minutes ago, suburbannature said: Well, I am a medical professional unlike yourself and I can say that has been well-established that you can change your sex. We have a significant amount of research exhibiting that individuals experiencing gender dysphoria have brain chemistry that closely resembles their expressed identity as opposed to what was assigned at birth. Furthermore, these individuals did not choose this experience and it can often take years to overcome denial, confusion, and external marginalization to understand and accept their identity . Some never reach that point. A little empathy goes a long way. How am I not being empathetic when in that very same post of mine you quoted I point out how any person can live their life as the gender they identify with? Sex and gender are separate topics. Which is why a lot of trans people choose not to get bottom surgery bc they don't necessarily feel the need to align their genitalia with the gender they identify with. That's not to say that a transwoman can not enter the women's bathroom (whether she has changed her genitalia or not). It just is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suilen Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 34 minutes ago, frankvert said: Oh the they/thems are gonna be so pressed Pressed that the UK doesn't respect people's identity and dignity? Yes. Anyone with a modicum of empathy should be pressed. Pressed that sex is a biological reality or whatever? Non-binary are well aware of their sex/AGAB, and some are on HRT just like binary trans people. I swear some of you people forget you talk about other people that are also on this very forum and not concepts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIT Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 Biological sex isn't the immutable binary that transphobes and biological essentialists think it is. No trait associated with biological sex actually presents itself in a rigidly binary way among humans. Chromosomal presentation isn't limited to just XX or XY; there are at least 16 different naturally occurring variations of sex chromosomes. Even external genitalia present across a spectrum (from full-size ***** to small ***** to micro-***** to clitoromegaly to enlarged clitoris to standard-sized clitoris). Not to mention that several characteristics associated with biological sex can change over an individual's lifetime, like hormones. It's more accurate to say sex is a spectrum with bimodal distribution, or a spectrum that has clusters: Spoiler 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glitch Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 6 hours ago, frankvert said: Oh the they/thems are gonna be so pressed This immature response reminds me of an expression "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relampago. Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 6 hours ago, suburbannature said: Well, I am a medical professional unlike yourself and I can say that has been well-established that you can change your sex. We have a significant amount of research exhibiting that individuals experiencing gender dysphoria have brain chemistry that closely resembles their expressed identity as opposed to what was assigned at birth. Furthermore, these individuals did not choose this experience and it can often take years to overcome denial, confusion, and external marginalization to understand and accept their identity . Some never reach that point. A little empathy goes a long way. 6 hours ago, Communion said: American Medical Association: https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/cme-issue-brief-sex-gender-medical-education.pdf I appreciate you both taking the time to educate that user, because although they'll likely let their bigotry blockade themselves from understanding new information, it's helpful for me to understand this topic more and have sources to point towards in case someone asks me to show them while discussing this topic. A lot of my beliefs around this are based in empathy and logical ways to treat other humans, so having actual sources to back up those beliefs is great. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cain Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 6 hours ago, dumbsparce said: You're literally making stuff up. No doctor/biologist in the world will tell you that someone's sex can not be 99.99% predicted by their chromosomes (or vice versa). I don't care about your twitter or tiktok sources that are specifically catered to your flawed perception of what is factual and what is not. And this has nothing to do with someone's gender identity. That's an entirely different topic, like everyone with more than 5 brain cells can understand. Respectfully, if you have no clue what you're talking about then shut up Any medical doctor/scientist in the biological field can and will tell there are about 38 different sex combinations found in humans. This includes anything from chromosomes to genitals, there are plenty of intersex people, there are plenty of people with xy chromosomes and uteruses, this whole 'a male/female is defined by these perfect characteristics in the body' IS social Like sure, most people do have xx chromosomes, a ****** and a uterus, or xy chromosomes, a ***** and balls, but a big enough chunk of the population doesn't and leaving that NATURAL FACT out is purely a political decision 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAg Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 transphobes literally will always f*cking confound me. imagine getting SO bothered by the existence of trans people that you feel the need to put in effort to spew hatred and vitriol. what do they REALLY want out of this? just... our trans siblings to be f*cking miserable? to outlaw HRT? what the f*ck is it? how does it affect them THAT MUCH THAT THEY FEEL THE NEED TO BEAT OUR COMMUNITY DOWN? what the F*CK! sorry, I get so heated about all of this my best friend, who I hang out at least 3 times a week every week (if not more!), is a man of trans experience who has firsthand seen all different kinds of transphobia. we dealt with this random dude at our favorite gay bar last year who began harassing my best friend in such a bizarre way. he skewed my best friend and I's socialist political views and started misgendering him because he couldn't fathom what leftism beyond bullsh*t liberalism could mean. and then he justified his misgendering by saying that he was close friends with a mutual friend of ours. there's a lot of strange transphobia in our community that does nothing but divide us and set us back, far back. regression. it's depressing. deadnaming and misgendering our trans siblings, when done with malicious intent and not by a full accident (!! which is another great conversation that CAN be had productively with understanding parties), does nothing but prove that you're content with being lazy and ignorant. what a pathetic existence... my dad, who is turning 71 years old this summer, is best friends with this really f*cking cool former politician trans woman (and between y'all and I? her and my dad definitely have crushes on each other lmao their friendship is so cute! she's also 6'2 and my dad is 5'3 aw I miss hanging out with them together, I haven't seen her in a few years actually) and he doesn't feel the need to act differently or to seem like he's performing. their friendship is golden and founded on pure love, transcending any boundaries posed by queerness vs cisnormativity. it ain't like that! they love each other beyond words. they relate! hell, they're both east coast jews who love to kvetch about how long the service is taking at their fav brunch spot, or talk for hours about how their respective children in their 20s and 30s don't know how easy we have it compared to THEIR BOOMER ASSES! they're both classic liberal boomers so obviously there's a difference in their politics vs mine and my best friend's politics. but this just goes to show, again, my point about how easy it is to love unapologetically, unconditionally... and how finding common ground and standing up for each other isn't a f*cking chore what I really hate is the fact that all of this NEED for these transphobic people to have "scientific validation" in their own terms is rooted in the most childish f*cking hate that is conducive to nothing but ignorance as for us in the LGBTQ community? we have a responsibility to care for our trans siblings, and to take it in that even though some of us who are cis will never fully understand the trans experience, doesn't make anybody's experiences less legitimate or worthy of respect. it isn't hard to approach people in our community, across spectrums, with love and understanding. it is beyond me though that people make a choice in their day to day lives to go out of their ways to be outright disrespectful woof, okay sorry for the rant, I didn't expect it to be that long but yeah. this evoked a lot of emotion in me 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 This is horrible, but I have to try and remain hopeful there is some kind of path through this thinking towards accepting gender difference/non conformity within a binary sex framework If there is this refusal to accept trans people within their identified sex category - which seems to be where things are going particularly in the UK - perhaps there needs to be room for a 'males who are women' or 'females who are men' conception with gender and sex clearly delineated. Perhaps this is what we need to be arguing for? I know a lot of trans people find this framing uncomfortable or invalidating though so I don't know im spitballing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headlock Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Harrier said: This is horrible, but I have to try and remain hopeful there is some kind of path through this thinking towards accepting gender difference/non conformity within a binary sex framework If there is this refusal to accept trans people within their identified sex category - which seems to be where things are going particularly in the UK - perhaps there needs to be room for a 'males who are women' or 'females who are men' conception with gender and sex clearly delineated. Perhaps this is what we need to be arguing for? I know a lot of trans people find this framing uncomfortable or invalidating though so I don't know im spitballing Not this "separate but equal" tea Why is the default to ~work with~ the transphobic minority as opposed to telling them to **** off and continuing to push back against them? Edited May 1 by Headlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CottageHore Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 (edited) I love how British people love to make fun of Americans who are the victim of an oppressive government who passes awful legislation, meanwhile……. Edited May 1 by CottageHore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SapphireSky Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 I think this country has bigger problems to worry about atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Well "sex is biological" is not wrong on itself but there is definitely subtle transphobia in most cases if you're aware of the context and by whom that line is mostly used from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funnyfatty Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Idk why but i feel like the hate for trans people is growing. I believe (i might be wrong) this increased since Elen mask took over twitter. Its sad and disgusting. I wish my brothers and sisters the best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyboi Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 seriously, we are receding, back in 2018 - 2019 truly felt like we were heading in the right direction but this decade everything is devolving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeAg Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 @Horizon Flame oh sorry babe did i say something that upset you? I'm literally just talking about people i love and how i feel sad and angry for many members of our community who deserve better treatment, but if that's something that bothers you, i'm open for a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modeblock Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 I blame that HAG that wrote those wizard books. Disgusting, shameful, and downright evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playboi Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 This + the rise of new conservative muslim leaders in the UK... I pray for my British LGBT peers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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