news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[ClashAndBurn]

3 hours ago, Kassi said:

 

 

 

 

#EndCampusAntisemitism 

 

I still can’t believe they said calling on the genocide of Jews would be allowed depending on the “context”. It’s like a fever dream that it actually happened. 

 

Like, it’s insane to me. As a black person, I’m still trying to square how chilling it would be if it was posed as “genocide against black people” and the response was “it depends”. And that’s at 13% of the population… I can only imagine the psychological toll it would take to hear that as a minority that’s only 2% of the population.

 

There’s something wrong with these people 

Elise Stefanik was speaking in pure hypotheticals that never even once actually happened. Not one single example was shown or even discussed. And the "I <3 Hamas" stickers were produced and placed by Hillel students trying to make the Palestinian supporters look bad. Congratulations, you got fooled by yet another Conservative psyop. Institutional power is completely coalesced on making sure Israel and its supporters are comfortable and any rhetoric that hurts their feelings is silenced, even if it's constitutionally protected. The Supreme Court decided this in the Skokie case decades ago.

 

If you don't think hate speech and calls for genocide should be protected by the First Amendment, then maybe you agree more with Trump (who wants to throw out the Constitution altogether) more than you're aware! Maybe the Democrats can amend the Constitution to eliminate the First Amendment so that they can also go full Kent State on protesters the way they clearly seem to want to. 

 

Meanwhile:

 

 

 

If you call for the genocide of Palestinians, you'll probably be up for a gig as an MSNBC/CNN/Fox News contributor. That IS constitutionally-protected AND institutionally-sanctioned speech after all.

Edited December 9, 2023 by ClashAndBurn

[Jjang]

Good morning 

 

reminder that Israel is carrying out an indiscriminate genocide & Zionists here are doing everything in their capabilities to distract you from the fact that they support it. 

[Jjang]

5 hours ago, Communion said:

There's something so dark-sided about you pretending to hate Republicans but then - because of your lack of knowledge as nothing but a Biden boot-licker - try and use Drew ******* Pavlou as a source despite him being a conservative Australian grifter no different from something like an Australian Nick Fuentes. 

 

That you're sat here trying to justify the literal assassination of a civilian - a literal professor of literature! -  by the Israeli army is so ******* disgusting.

 

 

we live amongst modern fascists. 

 

I guess if Nazi victims wrote in their diaries that they hate Germans, then they must be blown into pieces, no questions asked. 

 

 

[Letemtalk]

Have to agree with this one. Americans that support the attacks on Gaza are just the scum of the earth. Of course Americans have always been happy when bombs are falling on writers, artists, doctors, journalists, churches, mosques and children around the world. From Vietnam, Cambodia and dozens of countries since the end of World War II.

 

Zionists: "But, but human shields". Israel would have bombed him in the school and Israeli and pro Israel Americans would have praised the killing of children. As it happened, there were children killed in the attack on his sister's apartment, but less than would have been killed at the school.

[Letemtalk]

Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem calls for burying detained Palestinian civilians ALIVE.

 

 

[Eat The Acid]

I’ve been pushed the point of breaking. I want Israel to be deconstructed. Any country that provides a mechanism for brutal and shameless genocide should be deconstructed and re establish. Just as Germany was in 1945. I want to see Israel’s power taken from them. They use it with no regard for human rights or human life. We’re witnessing the most disgusting human rights violations this millennium right now and the US are funding and supporting it. Can the world not sanction the USA exactly like they do Russia etc.! The world needs to ACT. And NOW. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Eat The Acid

[Eat The Acid]

7 hours ago, Harrier said:

You are very keen to make the point that Israeli Jews are villainous - so what's your solution to that? Where are you going with this argument?

I could collate random posts of any number of groups showing unhinged behaviour and disgusting calls to violence - especially during a period of conflict - but the question then becomes, why? What narrative are we trying to push? What are our political goals?

 

I jumped to conclusions a few days ago on your argument because Jewish expulsion and/or violence seems to be the logical conclusion of a worldview that casts the overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews as bloodthirsty, white, colonialist Zionists. But please - prove me wrong - if Israeli Jews are so far beyond reform that no corner of their politics is worth saving, what do you propose beyond those things?

An end to Israel. 

[Eat The Acid]

2 hours ago, Letemtalk said:

Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem calls for burying detained Palestinian civilians ALIVE.

 

 

**** Israel. **** America. America and Israel are the terrorists. They’re Nazi countries under the guise of “the good guys”. America is the worst country in the world. A **** stain of immorality and nationalistic narcissism. 

[Kassi]

9 hours ago, ClashAndBurn said:

If you don't think hate speech and calls for genocide should be protected by the First Amendment, then maybe you agree more with Trump (who wants to throw out the Constitution altogether) more than you're aware!

You’re overthinking it, ma. This was specifically about allowable campus rhetoric.

 

Hypothetical or not, calling for things like the “genocide of Jews”, “enslavement of all black people”, or “r—- of all women” should easily violate the Student Code Of Conduct and be actionable against. Or does the left suddenly not believe in “safe spaces” when it comes to Jews? 
 

This ain’t about the First Amendment. Even YouTube’s Terms of Service don’t allow this ****. They ****** up and need to be FIRED. 

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, Kassi said:

You’re overthinking it, ma. This was specifically about allowable campus rhetoric.

 

Hypothetical or not, calling for things like the “genocide of Jews”, “enslavement of all black people”, or “r—- of all women” should easily violate the Student Code Of Conduct and be actionable against. Or does the left suddenly not believe in “safe spaces” when it comes to Jews? 
 

This ain’t about the First Amendment. Even YouTube’s Terms of Service don’t allow this ****. They ****** up and need to be FIRED. 

Suggesting "From the river to the sea" amounts to "genocide all Jews" is no different than suggesting saying "Black Lives Matter" amounts to say "Kill White People," FYI! 

[Kassi]

10 hours ago, Harrier said:

You are very keen to make the point that Israeli Jews are villainous - so what's your solution to that? Where are you going with this argument?

I could collate random posts of any number of groups showing unhinged behaviour and disgusting calls to violence - especially during a period of conflict - but the question then becomes, why? What narrative are we trying to push? What are our political goals?

 

I jumped to conclusions a few days ago on your argument because Jewish expulsion and/or violence seems to be the logical conclusion of a worldview that casts the overwhelming majority of Israeli Jews as bloodthirsty, white, colonialist Zionists. But please - prove me wrong - if Israeli Jews are so far beyond reform that no corner of their politics is worth saving, what do you propose beyond those things?

Right. It’s like posting a 4chan thread or posts from St***front and then using that brush to paint all Americans with. That’s something you do when you have a clear political objective in mind.

 

This is what I’ve been trying to pin down. But I think it’s been answered in here before…
 

On 12/5/2023 at 9:06 PM, Communion said:

Zionists who will end up fleeing Palestine and whatever becomes of Israel because of the eventual demographic changes are not a people without a homeland for whom we should be guilted into feeling sympathy for; they're a settler fleeing a failed colony. 

…I just wish they would say what they mean, so we could all move on. 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

16 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Or does the left suddenly not believe in “safe spaces” when it comes to Jews? 

The "left" doesn't uniformly believe in safe spaces and coddling oversensitive children that scream about words being literal violence. That's definitely a center-right liberal belief, though, bb  

 

Youtube isn't exactly a bastion of free speech either. It bends to censor non-liberal beliefs CONSTANTLY, and even flags coverage of Donald Trump's election misinformation as... spreading misinformation and breaking terms of service. Google (and pretty much all of Silicon Valley) uniformly acts on the whims of the CIA, FBI, the EU and the IDF.

 

Sure, the presidents of those universities can be fired if their Boards find their statements unacceptable. Maybe they should also change their codes of conduct and make protesting Israel illegal, since that's what liberals and conservatives seem to want the outcome to be.

[Kassi]

18 minutes ago, Communion said:

Suggesting "From the river to the sea" amounts to "genocide all Jews" is no different than suggesting saying "Black Lives Matter" amounts to say "Kill White People," FYI! 

Cool. Thankfully, nothing of the former was asked. And had it been asked, would have been assessed on its own merits.

 

What was explicitly asked was: 

 

“At Penn/MIT/Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate rules or code of conduct?”

 

An easy YES.

 

[Communion]

4 minutes ago, Kassi said:

…I just wish they would say what they mean, so we could all move on. 

The only one who needs to clarify what they mean seems to be you, sis! 

 

Are you actually saying you think - for instance - black South Africans not wanting to live as 2nd class citizens to a small racial minority under an apartheid system is akin to "White Genocide"? Because your rhetoric that ending israeli apartheid and occupation amounts to wanting to genocide all Jewish people is no different.

 

By your logic, Boers are just "refugees and innocent migrants" too. 

[Communion]

7 minutes ago, Kassi said:

At Penn/MIT/Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews

The Republicans who are making these claims are claiming that calls to "Free Palestine from the river to the sea" by students *ARE* the calls for genociding Jews. Not a single person has uttered the words "Genocide the Jews" during any of these student protests - but maybe you'd also fall for nonsense like this:

 

Glad you can admit you believe and are a fan of Republican rhetoric! Always knew it's been who you were underneath! 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Communion

[Kassi]

9 minutes ago, Communion said:

The only one who needs to clarify what they mean seems to be you, sis! 

 

Are you actually saying you think - for instance - black South Africans not wanting to live as 2nd class citizens to a small racial minority under an apartheid system is akin to "White Genocide"? Because your rhetoric that ending israeli apartheid and occupation amounts to wanting to genocide all Jewish people is no different.

 

By your logic, Boers are just "refugees and innocent migrants" too. 

Quickly, what genocide were the Boars, employees of the Dutch East India Company, escaping? 

[Communion]

Just now, Kassi said:

Quickly, what genocide were the Boars, employees of the Dutch East India Company, escaping? 

Oh, so now you believe the Holocaust is connected to Israel's creation?

Because just here you explicitly say that the Holocaust had nothing to do with Israel's right to exist and came "75 years" after colony building in Palestine started?

 

On 12/6/2023 at 3:17 PM, Kassi said:

Jewish immigration to Ottoman/Mandate Palestine was about 75 years in by the time the Holocaust happened.

[Kassi]

 

Pink, Taylor, and Beyoncé (the smartest pop girls) holding the line on anti-Semitism by not succumbing to the online mob 

[Communion]

6 hours ago, Letemtalk said:

Have to agree with this one. Americans that support the attacks on Gaza are just the scum of the earth. Of course Americans have always been happy when bombs are falling on writers, artists, doctors, journalists, churches, mosques and children around the world. From Vietnam, Cambodia and dozens of countries since the end of World War II.

 

Zionists: "But, but human shields". Israel would have bombed him in the school and Israeli and pro Israel Americans would have praised the killing of children. As it happened, there were children killed in the attack on his sister's apartment, but less than would have been killed at the school.

Part of this is why it is deeply uncomfortable seeing users like @Harrier and Kassi try and - for some reason - dunk on @welham and their hopelessness over the growing hatred and anti-Arab racism flooding Israel despite them being a literal Arab citizen of Israel?? Seeing people go "you just want all of them dead!" to someone who lives amongst, with and alongside Jewish Israelis just because they feel Israeli nationalism is growing is so??? 

[Eat The Acid]

38 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Right. It’s like posting a 4chan thread or posts from St***front and then using that brush to paint all Americans with. That’s something you do when you have a clear political objective in mind.

 

This is what I’ve been trying to pin down. But I think it’s been answered in here before…
 

…I just wish they would say what they mean, so we could all move on. 

 

It’s pretty clear. Israel shouldn’t exist. Israeli can leave Palestine if they don’t want to live there. Current Israel is stolen land and belongs to Palestinians and eventually apartheid regime and Israel will be destroyed and we will be happy to see it

[Aethereal]

Gazans are living through hell. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Aristotle

[Kassi]

40 minutes ago, Communion said:

Oh, so now you believe the Holocaust is connected to Israel's creation?

Because just here you explicitly say that the Holocaust had nothing to do with Israel's right to exist and came "75 years" after colony building in Palestine started?

 

The main point of that paragraph, "Palestine had a sizable and tolerated Jewish population", is developed by the supporting detail "migration was 75 years in".

 

Migration spurred by the same existential threats as those posed by the Holocaust 75 years later. Modern Jewish immigration to Palestine happened in waves (termed "aliyahs") and the first two migrations (1880-1914) happened before and during the early stages of the formal establishment of Zionism as a political movement. 

 

What is your obsession with labeling Jewish immigrants of anti-Semitism and pogroms as "colonizers" just because they ended up in Palestine?  

 

Like, you can't tell me which metropole they represent, you can't square that they represented only 5% of the world Jewry, and you can't divorce their immigration from existential threat. So what is it? It has to be anti-Semitism cause nothing else makes sense. 

[Kassi]

39 minutes ago, Eat The Acid said:

It’s pretty clear. Israel shouldn’t exist. Israeli can leave Palestine if they don’t want to live there. Current Israel is stolen land and belongs to Palestinians and eventually apartheid regime and Israel will be destroyed and we will be happy to see it

And if they don't want to leave Israel/Palestine. Then what?

[Eat The Acid]

Just now, Kassi said:

And if they don't want to leave Palestine. Then what?

They can live there. A state that doesn’t preference ethnicity or religion but gives freedoms and rights to all its people. Surely as someone from a country like that - you’d agree with that sentiment? Or are you implying apartheid and ethnostates is what you support and in extension - the genocide of Palestinians?

[Communion]

35 minutes ago, Kassi said:

Migration spurred by the same existential threats as those posed by the Holocaust 75 years later.

Religious persecution =/= the racialized and systematic execution of the global Jewish population by Nazi Germany.

What you're dabbling in is ironically deeply antisemitic by trying to conflate the horrors of the Holocaust with other time periods of repression experienced by European Jews. 

 

But you do this knowingly, because if you don't spread such (ironically antisemitic) misinformation, the bar gets lowered in your argument to:

"Settler colonialism is justified if those pursuing it were repressed in some way".

 

Your logic justifies things like the colonization of the Americas by religiously persecuted pilgrims and the eventual genocide of Native American populations.

 

"Every group who has ever been repressed on the basis of religion gets to claim a piece of land" is a hell of a thesis you're making. What parts of the Iberian Peninsula will Muslims gets to claim back for the conquests done against the Moors, for example? 

 

You were called out as peddling this inherent contradiction by suggesting Zionists buying up land in Palestine to explicitly de-populate it of the people living on it were no different than *checks notes* Guatemalan migrants in 2023 who cross the Mexico-US borders to flee ironically the kind of economic conditions US capitalism causes:

On 12/6/2023 at 6:25 PM, Kassi said:

The point is that they were there, no different than the 11 million illegal immigrants currently in the US.

Still waiting for you to address that the government body of this "migrant population" were plotting the expulsion of Palestinians:

On 12/6/2023 at 7:33 PM, Communion said:

David Ben-Gurion, December 1947, arguing that the UN partition plan would not satisfy the needs of a Jewish state:

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Communion