news Israel-Palestine Conflict 2023/ 2024 Mega Thread

[HungryByTheBuffet]

5 minutes ago, mons†er said:

the US keeps putting an emphasis on it because they're afraid of being accused of antisemitism. America's track record for aligning with POC and Black people isn't the best. 

the bigger issue here is racism, prejudice and genocide and it has been happening for over 56 years. once again, America doesn't have the best track record when it comes to dismantling racism and supporting the oppressed.

Personally, I think US is putting an emphasis on it because they see themselves as the saviors of the Middle East, and generally need to secure a base where they are free to operate and cooperate within the Middle East for their own security and agendas etc, it's like Biden said "a well worth investment" or something, it's just how countries be.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Communion said:

Hamas is the operating government of Gaza. You can scream "TERRORISM" all you want but the trading of political prisoners between rival governments is literally a historical thing that even Israel's most powerful allies like America has done. The US literally negotiated the release of political prisoners from Hezbollah 43 years ago. Let alone most European governments *do* rebuke the five eyes stance and often pay ransom for their citizens back. Such language emphasizing how the rhetoric here is entirely dishonest. No ransom is being asked for. These are political prisoners being kept by Hamas no differently than the countless civilians Israel has kept locked up in secret prisons throughout all of this. Israel is risking the lives of said prisoners because it feels it has more to gain and less to lose when the US will unquestionably defend its choices - no matter how irrational - from even other Western nations. Even places like Spain and Ireland have been lost to Israel at this point. 

Israel has negotiated in the past too I'm pretty sure, they generally put a big emphasis on their Kidnapped/Political prisoners if you wish, the difference is these are civilians they've kidnapped not soldiers or the like, and as for the political prisoners you say Israel arrests, I honestly don't know I'm sure there are innocents there but I doubt Israeli police arrest random Arab/Palestinians folk and put them in jail for life in a systemic fashion

 

Just now, State of Grace. said:

 

There is no justifying the countless Palestinian deaths, I'm merely pointing out some users blinded to the horrors that happened on 7Oct on a civilian level and the difference in the operation method of who was targeted, what was done, etc etc, like we said, these things have meaning and weight behind them too.

 

[HungryByTheBuffet]

8 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

Do you have an explanation for Israel attacking and killing people in the West Bank? It's sick because you told us that the IOF is only targeting Hamas. 

 

No? Just as I thought. Been repeating this question for days here with 0 answers being presented.

 

4 minutes ago, State of Grace. said:

There you have it...another mask off (like we needed it!) denying the ongoing genocide because "their population is still growing rapidly so it's fine if Israel is killing thousands of children hehe"

 

 

Miss me with your "I feel sorry for people in Gaza" bs.

Does the police/IDF probably give the 'one judge death sentence' to Arabs in the streets when there's something going on instead of a proper arrest and investigation more often than

they would do to all of the other demographics in Israel? no doubt about it, it's unjustifiable and still doesn't constitute as genocide.

 

I never had a mask on, am I biased toward Israel because I know people who died and countless other people who were affected? yes, does that mean you guys aren't constantly being extremists in this thread and that it's ok lots of you to wish Israel ceases to exist no matter what that means for the population? afraid not.

Complexities, they exist for some of us.

[HungryByTheBuffet]

All those protests and anger toward Biden? guaranteed it's not going to lead to any sort of peace, what it will lead to? Trump 2024, WW3 probably not long after.

so good job on that guys

[Aethereal]

Israel needs to stop this madness and ask for the hostages back. 

[HungryByTheBuffet]

1 minute ago, Aristotle said:

Israel needs to stop this madness and ask for the hostages back. 

dgfdgfsdg

"Have you tried asking politely?"

[mons†er]

I can't wait for American's to start taking this seriously when it starts affecting capitalism for the holiday season.

[ICLDXU4HS]

11 minutes ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

All those protests and anger toward Biden? guaranteed it's not going to lead to any sort of peace, what it will lead to? Trump 2024, WW3 probably not long after.

so good job on that guys

Maybe the aliens are gonna step in.

 

[Aethereal]

Just now, HungryByTheBuffet said:

dgfdgfsdg

"Have you tried asking politely?"

Still better than bombing children. 

[DAP]

6 minutes ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

All those protests and anger toward Biden? guaranteed it's not going to lead to any sort of peace, what it will lead to? Trump 2024, WW3 probably not long after.

so good job on that guys

If the status quo is that fragile then sounds like problem is them and not the people protesting.

 

[Communion]

46 minutes ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

Do any pro-Hamas on here have an explanation as to how murdering 1000 civilians stops the IDF?

Hundreds of Palestinians were killed by Israel from 01/01/23 to 10/06/23 and yet not a single politician in a large Western power ever uttered a call for a ceasefire. What off-ramp do you propose existed for Palestinians who were being systematically murdered thus far? 

 

I obviously can't stomach the idea of mass death and hurting civilians and find such inhumane. I'd also have no answers to the retort that I was born in the imperial core and have never know what its like to be born into a concentration camp and how such strips you of your humanity. 

 

Hamas has clearly decided the increased onslaught by Israel and accelerationist actions by Bibi's government has justified a more accelerationist position from them. It's dishonest to suggest the success of such is matter of factly decided as a failure and not entirely dependent on how well Israel can convince the world all Palestinians are irrational barbaric Islamists and the reason for the objectively horrific attack is blind jihad rooted in religious hate and not national sentiment that violence demands violence, no matter how one feels about the latter as reasoning.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Communion

[DAP]

Not that it means sh*t but I guess Dems can sigh in relief knowing they aren’t the only liberal party that is failing everyone.

 

[Gaia]

So...Hamas is a "resistance" and not a terrorist group despite launching an attack that killed ~1500 civilians

Taken hostages from attack are "political prisoners" when this is the definition:

 

Quote

a person who is imprisoned because that person’s actions or beliefs are contrary to those of his or her government. 

Be all the way forreal

 

 

The funny part about this entire ordeal is trying to paint me as "Pro-Israel" when in reality you guys have posted 10x more "Pro-Hamas" than anything.

 

The rhetoric in this thread went from "We're Pro-Palestinian and anti-hamas as we don't support terrorism! But Israel government is the true evil here!" to "Hamas isn't a terrorist group. They were forced to do what they did due to Israel's actions. Israel is the only evil here! Holding hostages and negotiating their release to their benefit is normal so why are you trying to paint them as some big bad guys"

 

Like

[More Than A Melody]

1 hour ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

Where's this accountability for users spreading hateful conspiracies? painting all and any atrocious from Oct 7 as Israeli propaganda?

 

The bad guys are the ones torturing civilians, raping them, burning mothers tied to their children, the way things are done during war matter, the intent behind them matters, that's why the US keeps putting an emphasis on it.

But ig I'm a Zionist since cause I'd agree folk who directly target civilians, woman, and children, are "the bad ones"

Nah, you're a zionist for believing everything Israel says without question despite the fact that they've been caught in countless lies this past week alone. You're a zionist for framing this entire situation as if the beginning was October 7 and not the 75 years prior to that.

 

You tell me, what would you do if a group of people came from thousands of miles away, stole your house and everything inside of it, confined you to a tiny bedroom, controlled whether you eat or drink water, how warm and cool you are in the summer and winter, murdered your entire family including children and pets, and despite crying and begging for decades, all your neighbors ignored you. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

 

The question goes for you to @Gaia

Edited October 24, 2023 by More Than A Melody

[Communion]

31 minutes ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

All those protests and anger toward Biden? guaranteed it's not going to lead to any sort of peace, what it will lead to? Trump 2024

Sounds like Democrats should stop being Israel hardliners if they don't want Trump to win then.

 

Friendly reminder - no one owes their vote to Joe Biden or any genocidal politician. 

Clearly Israeli citizens were content in the status quo of apartheid and empowered Bibi and the rest of Israel's far right given the country's continued lurch towards fascism so now their domino effect will give the world Trump. 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Communion

[FOCK]

1 hour ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

Do any pro-Hamas on here have an explanation as to how murdering 1000 civilians stops the IDF?

No one is “pro Hamas”. There’s a difference between having the mind to understand the root cause of this matter, and the reason a group like Hamas exists, and being “pro Hamas”. 
 

It’s already been suggested that the majority of deaths were seemingly caused by crossfire between the IDF & Hamas members, via video evidence & 2 hostage testimonies. 

 

“1000 civilians” talking point… every person in Israel that serves in the IDF, gave up that title. Every settler on illegal land gave up that title. Anyone that voluntarily chooses to rave on the fringe of a CONCENTRATION CAMP, NEXT TO a military base is… well. By international law, as upsetting as it is, an arguably legal target for an occupation resistance. Maybe the IDF should not place their military bases among civilians & use them as human shields. Don’t you just hate that? Damn.
 

Israel wants to use the idea that this is a “war” as a justification for any abhorrent action, if we are to accept the ridiculous premise that an occupier can be at “war” with an occupied people, and put aside the glaring disparities in power imbalances, then prisoners of war would also be justifiable, no? It cannot be rules for thee and none for me. Does Hamas have the right to cause untold destruction to bring Palestinian hostages back? 
 

To put it plainly, it accomplished/attempted to the task of dispelling the image of Israel as a “safe” haven, at least in the way that it currently chooses to operate, & undoubtedly discouraged hundreds of thousands from choosing to migrate there to further illegally settle & increased public pressure & awareness, even among Israeli citizens - to call for change. 

 

Along with drawing unprecedented international attention to the Palestinian plight - what Israel has turned it into, is a worldwide showcase of their callous war crimes & genocidal, fanatical goals. 
 

We can say all this & still lament how absolutely awful the suffering of victims on either side has been. But we’re also in no position to judge an occupied people for how some of them choose to retaliate against an occupier, especially when every other peaceful effort has been exhausted. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by FOCK

[Scars]

22 hours ago, More Than A Melody said:

I feel so seen by this. I have a foot in Chile and a foot in the US (I was born and raised in Chile and have lived on and off in the US for the past 8 years). I urge people to look up Pinochet, who backed him up, and what he did in my country. And that's absolutely nothing compared to what the Middle East has suffered at the hands of the US.

 

It's so telling when someone doesn't have this perspective and does not care at all to acquire it. I applaud those who despite being overly privileged have sought information and become compassionate and empathetic to other people's pain.

I'm from South America as well, our region had to endure decades of murderous military dictatorships, which were heavily financed by the West. Some countries had a military coup shortly after transitioning to democracy from a previous US-backed dictatorship.

 

Mass killings, censorship, economic instability, brutal repression, oppression of sexual and ethnic minorities and generational trauma. To this day, some families still don’t know what happened to their loved ones that were missed during those dark ages. Our people had to endure all of that because losing support from a healthy South America to the USSR was a risk the US wasn’t willing to take during the Cold War. 

 

It’s important to look back and remember that our political heroes from that time, which were mostly affiliated with communist armed resistance groups, were once labeled as ‘bloody-thirsty terrorists’ by the West, local media and military junta. Communities from the Global South must not reduce their fight for liberation to a white-washed version of what the West deems as acceptable to their neoliberal idea of 'resistance'.

[Cloröx]

Modern Nazi confirmed 

 

[Cloröx]

I guess it's time to remove this cancer. Israel gov has to go. There will be no peace in the region as long as they are governing the state 

 

 

[ClashAndBurn]

44 minutes ago, Scars said:

I'm from South America as well, our region had to endure decades of murderous military dictatorships, which were heavily financed by the West. Some countries had a military coup shortly after transitioning to democracy from a previous US-backed dictatorship.

 

Mass killings, censorship, economic instability, brutal repression, oppression of sexual and ethnic minorities and generational trauma. To this day, some families still don’t know what happened to their loved ones that were missed during those dark ages. Our people had to endure all of that because losing support from a healthy South America to the USSR was a risk the US wasn’t willing to take during the Cold War. 

 

It’s important to look back and remember that our political heroes from that time, which were mostly affiliated with communist armed resistance groups, were once labeled as ‘bloody-thirsty terrorists’ by the West, local media and military junta. Communities from the Global South must not reduce their fight for liberation to a white-washed version of what the West deems as acceptable to their neoliberal idea of 'resistance'.

The people defending the US and Israel on this issue would have trouble grasping the concept that the Evil Empire in Star Wars was representative of the US during the Vietnam War and the Rebellion (the good guys) were representative of the Vietcong.

 

Speaking of film culture, I have a feeling the Captain America movie is going to get pushed back or shelved. The film introduces an Israeli super soldier named Sabra whose comic book source material is very… uhhhh… Islamophobic…

[Scars]

It may be an uncomfortable reality to those who see the world with a sense of morality straight out of a Marvel movie, but from Latin America to Southern Africa, the taking of political opponent hostages, or western ambassadors, have always been used as a tool for negotiation by resistance groups. 

 

The madness in here. Some of you might as well scream "terrorists!" to anti-apartheid armed resistance groups, like ANC, which went to become the biggest political party in today's South Africa.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Scars

[ClashAndBurn]

1 hour ago, HungryByTheBuffet said:

Israel & US: delay ground invasion to be able to secure more hostages first

You guys: they clearly don't care about the hostages genocide is their only goal

 

16 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

 

 

 

Seems like the ground invasion delay isn’t for securing hostages, but buying time to bring in more American resources to assist Israel against Hezbollah and Iran. Not surprising, but it makes it clear they aren’t pausing the ground invasion for benevolent or humanitarian reasons.

[Scars]

Interesting read.

 

The articled mentioned in the thread: Israel’s One-State Reality - It’s Time to Give Up on the Two-State Solution (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/israel-palestine-one-state-solution)

[Communion]

33 minutes ago, Cloröx said:

I guess it's time to remove this cancer. Israel gov has to go. There will be no peace in the region as long as they are governing the state 

 

 

Liberals: "Biden is doing amazing! He cares for the Palestinians! Let's applaud the US for their stance!"

 

Reality: *the US delaying Israel's ground invasion because they know the IDF would already be largely out-matched by Hamas in ground operations and that Israel's desperation once largely embarrassed on the ground would lead to further weaponry that would cause neighboring countries to intervene, which the US is now helping Israel prep for*

 

[RihRihGirrrl]

1 hour ago, Cloröx said:

Modern Nazi confirmed 

 

It's very clear they want to weaken then wipe out the whole Palestinian population in Gaza....anyone who doesn't get it at this point is being intentionally obtuse 

[More Than A Melody]

The title is very clickbaity, he does destroy Amy Schumer, but he mostly just gives a gigantic history lesson that contextualizes a lot of things, for those who find it hard to understand it in writing

 

BTW, this poly-sci professor who's also a a first generation Jew whose entire family either died or was tortured in concentration camps in the Holocaust. His pro Palestine anti Israel activism cost him his career. In this video he actually talks about Operation Condor (what I was talking about earlier, Pinochet, essentially)