Sweetness Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 8 hours ago, stevyy said: Guinness also put Taylor in her place... and nobody seems to be remembering that. Guinness listed Taylor as best selling female artist and highest female touring act of all time? Madonna holds some of the most records in the book for a solo act and there are tons of records she has globally that aren't listed She's far more accomplished than Taylor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 35 minutes ago, Sweetness said: Guinness listed Taylor as best selling female artist and highest female touring act of all time? Madonna holds some of the most records in the book for a solo act and there are tons of records she has globally that aren't listed She's far more accomplished than Taylor. https://people.com/madonna-is-still-biggest-selling-female-recording-artist-of-all-time-8382770 Taylor is at #4. #1 - Madonna #2 - Rihanna #3 - Mariah #4 - Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/31/2023 at 8:54 AM, brooklyndaddy said: As if this isn’t the entire history of how people make music… Swiftie’s really live in their own world Jesus ****** Christ If you're going to ask for examples of her cultural influence and then, when provided them, refuse to engage in even the most rudimentary analysis - next time don't ask I mean, my god, we have an ex-superfan of Taylor's currently dominating the charts in the form of Olivia Rodrigo but that won't stop y'all from sticking your heads in the sand and pretending like Taylor has no legacy to discuss in the first place 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) The Madonna-Mariah streaming era mid-off happening in this thread let's spare ourselves the pages and pages of circular arguments and (poorly formatted) copy-pasted stats and concede that, aside from Mariah 6 weeks out of the year, neither one of them has any significant footprint in the streaming era and both their recurrent stats are middling at best Edited January 2 by Goaty 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 11 hours ago, Goaty said: The Madonna-Mariah streaming era mid-off happening in this thread let's spare ourselves the pages and pages of circular arguments and (poorly formatted) copy-pasted stats and concede that, aside from Mariah 6 weeks out of the year, neither one of them has any significant footprint in the streaming era and both their recurrent stats are middling at best If two of the biggest artist of all times are only midding in the streaming era... or have average results... it shows what's wrong with streaming or the value that it has on the charts. Right next to this, we should be checking their respective playlist reach. How can it be that a song by a young act right off the start can debut with a 300-400 million playlist reach and then Madonna / Mariah come along and scrape at 10% of that? 10% playlist reach equals 10% the streaming outcome. How can it be that some songs stay months or years on the TTH playlist while our past girls couldn't get a foot in it despite some initial interest in their music? There is so much that disadvantages past artists in the streaming era... it is not only this "they aren't popular enough" narrative. I have been tracking music consumption since 2011 on LastFM, since 2018 I have Spotify... and for example... The new Kylie Minogue album wasn't even in my wekly new-releases suggestions.... here in Germany - where the woman is a superstar. I have also streamed her relentlessly before... so BECAUSE I knew that her album was out... I had to type in her name and find it myself... but for other people... that may be casual listeners... they wouldn't know that she had an album out. Long story short: It gets on my nerves that some of my most streamed artists' new music is not even on my personal Spotify new-releases page. It's ridiculous. (And re-releases are never shown to me). Niall's album The Show was my #1 album of 2023 with over 3,300 streams according to my LastFM account.. but that he had a re-release of the same album... that I only found out 3 weeks after it had been re-released. It's stoopid. Elderly people like myself are at an disadvantage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbyds Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 @stevyy they can't handle your stats. Let them breathe (or not) 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, robbyds said: @stevyy they can't handle your stats. Let them breathe (or not) 😂 right. <3 Edited January 2 by stevyy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbyds Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) On 12/31/2023 at 3:39 AM, Storm653 said: I dunno....Ever since NippleGate, Janet's legacy has sorta gotten pushed to the wayside. Even her own protege, Britney Spears, has overshadowed her impact despite being heavily influenced by her. Taylor's no doubt going to have a bigger legacy than Janet Jackson in the grand scheme of things. It may sound blasphemous and Janet deserves her props for her influence but, realistically, there's just no way Taylor won't overshadow her in due time, assuming that hasn't already happened. If you ask the average Joe what Janet Jackson's social impact is, they largely won't be able to tell you. This is especially true overseas. Hmm i actually think its the opposite. Janet's legacy of late is at its strongest. Every major and upcoming star has been name checking and fawning over her (sza, tyla, lizzo, troye sivan, taylor to name a few. For somebody who lived through the SB scandal when she basically became an outcast, now, it looks like the media at large, critics and most importantly her peers revere her again. Also, casual fans who abandoned her now go to her shows as evidenced by a sold out north american tour attended by half a million fans in huge arenas and amphitheaters. At 57, she is experiencing a career resurgence. What's preventing her to truly have a big comeback is her nonchalant persona. She is content and unbothered. She knows she is a legend and has a been there, done that attitude. Overseas impact is of course felt until today. And here in Asia, if you ask for a name of female musican-dancer, her name will surely crop up. Thats legacy. She's also doing a cute leg of the Together Again tour in Asia/Pacific and its selling very well, particularly in Japan and Hawaii. Edited January 2 by robbyds 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbyds Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 OT. Taylor's obviously bigger now as she is at her peak and seems unstoppable. I mean, the woman just has the first $1B tour and it is only halfway done. Wild! And of course NOBODY's bigger than Mariah during the holiday period..C'mon.... Madonna's career is still bigger in totality but Taylor will eclipse it very soon at the rate she's going. Commercially-speaking of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 9 minutes ago, robbyds said: Hmm i actually think its the opposite. Janet's legacy of late is at its strongest. Every major and upcoming star has been name checking and fawning over her (sza, tyla, lizzo, troye sivan, taylor to name a few. For somebody who lived through the SB scandal when she basically became an outcast, now, it looks like the media at large, critics and most importantly her peers revere her again. Also, casual fans who abandoned her now go to her shows as evidenced by a sold out north american tour attended by half a million fans in huge arenas and amphitheaters. At 57, she is experiencing a career resurgence. What's preventing her to truly have a big comeback is her nonchalant persona. She is content and unbothered. She knows she is a legend and has a been there, done that attitude. Overseas impact is of course felt until today. And here in Asia, if you ask for a name of female musican-dancer, her name will surely crop up. Thats legacy. She's also doing a cute leg of the Together Again tour in Asia/Pacific and its selling very well, particularly in Japan and Hawaii. Janet is a beloved icon all over the world. I have lived during her heyday and experienced every era consciously since Rhythm Nation. She even won popularity contests against Mariah / Madonna and Whitney in the early to mid 1990s in Germany. People tend to under-value her. This nonsense of her only being known as "Michael Jackson's sister" gets my blood boiling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevyy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 2 minutes ago, robbyds said: OT. Taylor's obviously bigger now as she is at her peak and seems unstoppable. I mean, the woman just has the first $1B tour and it is only halfway done. Wild! And of course NOBODY's bigger than Mariah during the holiday period..C'mon.... Madonna's career is still bigger in totality but Taylor will eclipse it very soon at the rate she's going. Commercially-speaking of course. very valid. I respond mostly to posts that make Mariah seem like the biggest flop ever. Like when the Taylor community called her US albums sales "decent" or Elvis Presley an albums-flop in America.... or when anyone claims Mariah is unknown and has no hit songs. I'm old and dusty. I can appreciate streaming era achievements to a certain degree... (my fave is benefiting as well). However, due to my old age I still separate the sales era achievements from the streaming era achievements. Taylor has HUGE sales as well... and out of this world streaming. However, at the current rate and judging the state of the music industry, those sales-era achevements cannot be surpassed by anyone - incl. Taylor. Turning the tables now, those streaming era achievements cannot be topped by my oldie acts either. In the end, everyone is winning. Madonna has sold 205 million albums PURE!!!! She remains the only female recording artst (dead or alive) to have achieved this. The next best would be Céline Dion (178m), Mariah (150m), Whitney (140m) and Barbra Streisand (140m). That's a ranking for all eternity - in regards to pure sales achievements. I just want that people appreciate that for what it is. HUGE achievements. I cannot tolerate this... "issa a flop" narrative from anyone because I have lived in those times. I have consciously lived since 1990 (born half a decade earlier) and those sales and achievements were even unheard-of in my days. Like... selling 30 million copies of an album was unthinkable. Even 10 million copies per album release were HUGE hits. The music industry has transformed itself. That is true. But going with the times should never mean ignoring the past. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbyds Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, stevyy said: very valid. I respond mostly to posts that make Mariah seem like the biggest flop ever. Like when the Taylor community called her US albums sales "decent" or Elvis Presley an albums-flop in America.... or when anyone claims Mariah is unknown and has no hit songs. I'm old and dusty. I can appreciate streaming era achievements to a certain degree... (my fave is benefiting as well). However, due to my old age I still separate the sales era achievements from the streaming era achievements. Taylor has HUGE sales as well... and out of this world streaming. However, at the current rate and judging the state of the music industry, those sales-era achevements cannot be surpassed by anyone - incl. Taylor. Turning the tables now, those streaming era achievements cannot be topped by my oldie acts either. In the end, everyone is winning. Madonna has sold 205 million albums PURE!!!! She remains the only female recording artst (dead or alive) to have achieved this. The next best would be Céline Dion (178m), Mariah (150m), Whitney (140m) and Barbra Streisand (140m). That's a ranking for all eternity - in regards to pure sales achievements. I just want that people appreciate that for what it is. HUGE achievements. I cannot tolerate this... "issa a flop" narrative from anyone because I have lived in those times. I have consciously lived since 1990 (born half a decade earlier) and those sales and achievements were even unheard-of in my days. Like... selling 30 million copies of an album was unthinkable. Even 10 million copies per album release were HUGE hits. The music industry has transformed itself. That is true. But going with the times should never mean ignoring the past. Well said. Quite hard to compare physical, digital and streaming eras 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbyds Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 1 hour ago, stevyy said: Janet is a beloved icon all over the world. I have lived during her heyday and experienced every era consciously since Rhythm Nation. She even won popularity contests against Mariah / Madonna and Whitney in the early to mid 1990s in Germany. People tend to under-value her. This nonsense of her only being known as "Michael Jackson's sister" gets my blood boiling. She was the highest paid musician 2x in her storied career for a reason. Besting even her famous brother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I can't believe my eyes, lmao. Madonna is, obviously, bigger than both. Mariah is also bigger than Taylor. Taylor Swift is relevant and massive right now but don't expect older generations to know who she is. Madonna and Mariah opened doors for multiple upcoming female artists. You can't possibly compare that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 6 hours ago, stevyy said: If two of the biggest artist of all times are only midding in the streaming era... or have average results... it shows what's wrong with streaming or the value that it has on the charts. Maybe. There’s surely a nuanced conversation to be had about the streaming footprints of music legends in the modern age, and no doubt some sexism might even come into play with some of the women. But there are several big legacy acts who consistently get great numbers on steaming - MJ, Queen, and The Beatles, to name a few. What I think is more at play here is that these big artists like Mariah and Madonna have failed to connect with younger audiences that - correct me if I’m wrong - make up a larger percentage of the streaming demographic. Neither one has had a hit in the streaming era (Mariah’s Christmas music aside - as that’s a different beast altogether). But ultimately I don’t think the problem is with streaming itself - streaming as a method of consumption is just showing us what people listen to. And few are listening to Madonna and Mariah. I think the more interesting question is how can an artist change that? Something needs to generate interest in their catalogs. Otherwise they will continue to miss out on millions and millions of people who have access to all their music 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, Pedro said: I can't believe my eyes, lmao. Madonna is, obviously, bigger than both. Mariah is also bigger than Taylor. Taylor Swift is relevant and massive right now but don't expect older generations to know who she is. Madonna and Mariah opened doors for multiple upcoming female artists. You can't possibly compare that. I don’t know why you all parrot this same talking point when it’s Taylor’s ubiquity in the modern age that will generate a big legacy. She’s cracked into multiple generations of listeners and with that comes a level of influence that we probably won’t be able to fully unpack for decades. but we already see her influence quite clearly - notably on female singer-songwriters like Olivia Rodrigo or Kelsea Ballerini. She has the most awarded country music album in history and that alone will leave a lasting mark on country music Madonna and Mariah have the advantage of time, as they have several extra decades that allowed their legacies to develop and mature. Taylor does not. But if Taylor keeps up the momentum, I wouldn’t be surprised if her legacy in a few more decades rivals or even surpasses any other female artist in history 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needs Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Why are we writing essays in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alestevens Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 1/1/2024 at 1:45 AM, Aden said: Taylor is having a high in a single year whereas Madonna rode high for 20+ years. LOL. Taylor has been the top female artist for the vast majority of the last 16 years. That's what makes her peaking in 2023 even more impressive. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slayne Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Madonna already outstreaming Moo because the christmas streams plummeted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spree Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 3 hours ago, Pedro said: I can't believe my eyes, lmao. Madonna is, obviously, bigger than both. Mariah is also bigger than Taylor. Taylor Swift is relevant and massive right now but don't expect older generations to know who she is. Madonna and Mariah opened doors for multiple upcoming female artists. You can't possibly compare that. with free streams I guess you can apparently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, Pedro said: I can't believe my eyes, lmao. Madonna is, obviously, bigger than both. Mariah is also bigger than Taylor. Taylor Swift is relevant and massive right now but don't expect older generations to know who she is. Madonna and Mariah opened doors for multiple upcoming female artists. You can't possibly compare that. I agree. In my country except for some switfties and pop listeners, Nobody knows her name and her forgettable song title. Edited January 2 by readytowind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spree Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 34 minutes ago, Goaty said: I don’t know why you all parrot this same talking point when it’s Taylor’s ubiquity in the modern age that will generate a big legacy. She’s cracked into multiple generations of listeners and with that comes a level of influence that we probably won’t be able to fully unpack for decades. but we already see her influence quite clearly - notably on female singer-songwriters like Olivia Rodrigo or Kelsea Ballerini. She has the most awarded country music album in history and that alone will leave a lasting mark on country music Madonna and Mariah have the advantage of time, as they have several extra decades that allowed their legacies to develop and mature. Taylor does not. But if Taylor keeps up the momentum, I wouldn’t be surprised if her legacy in a few more decades rivals or even surpasses any other female artist in history her legacy of what? Making fluff albums like Midnights? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
readytowind Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, spree said: her legacy of what? Making fluff albums like Midnights? Maybe Re-releases on so many multiple versions and dumping discounts of remixes for inflated chart stats . And making disposable and quickly produced forgettable songs soon to exit from charts? Edited January 2 by readytowind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spree Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Just now, readytowind said: Maybe Re-releases on so many multiple versions and dumping discounts of remixes for inflated chart stats . And making disposable and quickly produced forgettable songs soon to exit from charts? sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goaty Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 16 minutes ago, readytowind said: Maybe Re-releases on so many multiple versions and dumping discounts of remixes for inflated chart stats . And making disposable and quickly produced forgettable songs soon to exit from charts? Some yalls faves can’t even get people to stream their original material - you think anyone would tune in for a re-release? the re-releases are not the drag you think they are. They continue to ignite interest in her entire catalog and that is then reflected in her consumption units 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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