base talk Is Beyoncé vs Taylor the most boring stan war of all time?

[PoisonedIvy]

17 minutes ago, AxelFox said:

It's the most frustrating for sure. The fact that Beyoncé gets compared to somebody like taylor swift on the frequent is beyond insulting. All because she's selling/being streamed a lot currently.

 

But that's a general problem with these younger generations I noticed, that nobody knows how to stay in their lane, show respect and feel entitled to their stupidity. 
 

You don't see the Hive talking **** about Mariah, Whitney, Janet and Madonna like that. And I'm gonna leave it at that. 

It’s a bit double sided, and I’m not saying that as a swiftie. I’m saying that psychologically, respect can’t be given unless it’s exchanged. And the Hive members that don’t like Taylor disrespect her quite heavily. They downplay her success because they personally don’t enjoy what she has to offer. It’s no secret that she’s not a vocalist or a trained dancer.
 

But the Hive consistently dunking on her and calling her white mediocrity in spite of the fact she has clearly risen to the level of success she has -in spite- of her limitations being a testament to her talent in other areas (songwriting, marketing, and engagement/connection) is of course going to elicit conflict.

 

 (And don’t get it twisted. I’m black & Hispanic. I know the ‘working twice as hard for half the reward’ statement is absolutely true, and that Taylor was helped immensely by her white privilege whereas Bey is hindered by racism and prejudice. But that’s ignorant of the fact that Taylor’s tours aren’t doing well because people see her as the greatest performer in technical capabilities like vocals and choreography: they’re doing well because of their connection with her music from an emotional standpoint.)
 

That doesn’t excuse the Swifties that disrespect Beyonce. It’s wrong on both ends and I’ve got my words for them too. But I just wanted to at least use your post as a launch pad for the message that, on both ends, respect typically won’t be given unless respect is returned. And right now a lot of members on both sides disrespect each other’s favs. Not me though, I love and respect both artists and the cool fans of both. 
 

TL;DR — If the Swifties would respect Bey’s success, ESPECIALLY in respect to her obstacles as a woman of color, and if the Hive would respect Taylor’s success in spite of her “shortcomings” in relation to Bey, this forum would be a much happier place. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by WeFoundTrouble

[Jon Snow]

2 minutes ago, Rotunda said:

Black art and black aesthetics are often highly commodified and highly consumed by white audiences. Rihanna, The Weeknd, and Michael Jackson are all Black artists who make music that is widely accessible and commodifiable by white audiences. Since the SoundScan era, even rap consumption has been widely consumed by suburban white boys who adopt Black affects, Black trends, and Black musics as a way to feel part of a life and space they deem to be cool. 
 

The difference between Beyoncé and a lot of the other mainstream Black pop or rap acts who achieve widespread success, is that she acts from a position that isn’t cool  for the average person to appropriate. Focusing on aesthetic and artistic choices that champion the community rather than ones that make the community’s aesthetics more accessible to non-Black people means that her appeal isn’t seen the same way by White audiences the same way the appeal of a Drake may be.

 

This doesn’t mean that her art is superior to these artists or that she is experiencing a unique form of racism. It means that she’s makes art that is less appealing to the White Gaze. 
 

Naming pop artist who de-emphasize race in their work, or naming rap artists who have their work fetishized so that White boys in McMansions can pretend to have some edge to them doesn’t detract from the point I’m making. 

That is very well said. Thank you 

 

My white European ass should think more about this 

 

[leyaris11]

Not on ATRL. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by leyaris11

[WildHeart]

1 hour ago, Blue Rose said:

The feud didn’t really start until May when RWT started.  

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

The way this “stanwar” increased when RWT started & we can easily pull multiple posts by #that fanbase talking about her singing, lack of dancing, she has no hits, she can’t sell, ppl sleeping at her shows, etc. 

We can pull the receipts too 

 

Just one thread months before Renaissance Tour where Hive is fuming in en masse

 

[Jon Snow]

Let’s pray Taylor appears in THE visuals and this all ends 

[Kingdom]

5 minutes ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

It’s a bit double sided, and I’m not saying that as a swiftie. I’m saying that psychologically, respect can’t be given unless it’s exchanged. And the Hive members that don’t like Taylor disrespect her quite heavily. They downplay her success because they personally don’t enjoy what she has to offer. It’s no secret that she’s not a vocalist or a trained dancer.
 

But the Hive consistently dunking on her and calling her white mediocrity in spite of the fact she has clearly risen to the level of success she has -in spite- of her limitations being a testament to her talent in other areas (songwriting, marketing, and engagement/connection) is of course going to elicit conflict.

 

 (And don’t get it twisted. I’m black & Hispanic. I know the ‘working twice as hard for half the reward’ statement is absolutely true, and that Taylor was helped immensely by her white privilege whereas Bey is hindered by racism and prejudice. But that’s ignorant of the fact that Taylor’s tours aren’t doing well because people see her as the greatest performer in technical capabilities like vocals and choreography: they’re doing well because of their connection with her music from an emotional standpoint.)
 

That doesn’t excuse the Swifties that disrespect Beyonce. It’s wrong on both ends and I’ve got my words for them too. But I just wanted to at least use your post as a launch pad for the message that, on both ends, respect typically won’t be given unless respect is returned. And right now a lot of members on both sides disrespect each other’s favs. Not me though, I love and respect both artists and the cool fans of both. 
 

TL;DR — If the Swifties would respect Bey’s success, ESPECIALLY in respect to her obstacles as a woman of color, and if the Hive would respect Taylor’s success in spite of her “shortcomings” in relation to Bey, this forum would be a much happier place. 

Wow this was actually well said. you might be the only swiftie with a proper awareness of the intersection between race and value in the indistry on thir bird site. Very nice to see.

 

Also i would had, THE BLACK experience imo is a very distinct one. But nonetheless, very well said

[Heartbreak Prince]

It’s not really a stan war, it’s mostly Swifties putting Hives in their place and reminding them that this isn’t a group project. 

[byzantium]

The whole thing just stems from lack of respect.  And the people coming in to this thread of all places to voice how much they disrespect one of the artists are precisely demonstrating the problem. 

[Shelter]

3 hours ago, FolkLover1989 said:

There was no bad blood , the tour started it all

 

Eras Tour is factually the biggest event of this decade and dare I say this century , so Hives started dragging it for being basic and white then offcourse Swifties started pulling the receipts as well and it has been same since then

 

And it won't end till 2025 atp 

It started with the Brit awards. 

[byzantium]

1 hour ago, Rotunda said:

Racism doesn’t imply that a Black artist can never be #1, but that the barriers to success impact artists of minority groups to a greater degree than artists of majority groups. The fact that you have to use the exception to disprove the rule is exactly why your point is idiotic. 

 

You’re serving “If racism exists how was Obama president?”

 

And @byzantiumand @ugo are clowns for co-signing this nonsense when y’all shouldn’t be this dumb.

Get my name out of your mouth with your trolling nonsense.  I’m not sure why you are so obsessed with me over nothing.  

Edited September 4, 2023 by byzantium

[PoisonedIvy]

4 minutes ago, Kingdom said:

Wow this was actually well said. you might be the only swiftie with a proper awareness of the intersection between race and value in the indistry on thir bird site. Very nice to see.

 

Also i would had, THE BLACK experience imo is a very distinct one. But nonetheless, very well said

The black experience is a very distinct one. All of Taylor’s music resonates with my heart, truly. But The Gift? That resonates with my soul. All black music does. Taylor is my favorite artist for a lot of reasons but I don’t think she’ll ever truly reach my roots the way artists like Bey, Kendrick, and Janelle Monae for example, can.
 

But I do my part to try to speak to that experience. Cause there’s some ignorant swifties who don’t understand the racial and cultural nuances. (That member in here saying Bad Bunny and Beyonce and The Weeknd are popular so racism can’t possibly be affecting Bey’s career? Chile what?) 

[Kingdom]

2 minutes ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

The black experience is a very distinct one. All of Taylor’s music resonates with my heart, truly. But The Gift? That resonates with my soul. All black music does. Taylor is my favorite artist for a lot of reasons but I don’t think she’ll ever truly reach my roots the way artists like Bey, Kendrick, and Janelle Monae for example, can.
 

But I do my part to try to speak to that experience. Cause there’s some ignorant swifties who don’t understand the racial and cultural nuances. (That member in here saying Bad Bunny and Beyonce and The Weeknd are popular so racism can’t possibly be affecting Bey’s career? Chile what?) 

Beautiful. love this. i totally get what you mean. i am obsessed with janelle as well

[1989]

Neither fanbase is innocent.

 

It’s true that Swifties ran into the thread about Renaissance now being the top female tour ready with the “for now, wait until Taylor’s numbers are released!!1” replies. It’s also true that a Hive member started a whole ass clown thread talking about “is Taylor really bOoStInG tHe EcOnOmY???”. 
 

Both sides act ridiculous, but I suppose it’s just part of stan culture to act as if one side is above it all.

[byzantium]

24 minutes ago, Shelter said:

It started with the Brit awards. 

It started over Taylor’s 2021 AOTY win.

Edited September 4, 2023 by byzantium

[Steve Johnson]

22 minutes ago, Artistofthedecade said:

 

We can pull the receipts too 

 

Just one thread months before Renaissance Tour where Hive is fuming in en masse

 

Pathetic behavior but are we surprised? They are full of bitterness and jealousy. 

 

 

[Steve Johnson]

5 minutes ago, byzantium said:

It started over Taylor, 2021 AOTY win,  

And the fact that Bey wasn't even competing at 2021 Grammys. Idk why they are so obsessed with Tay. 

[Marla Singer]

It's boring because it's just a rehash of Britney vs. Beyoncé or Gaga vs. Beyoncé with racist gays clinging to any white blonde they think they can use to undermine Beyoncé's success (a lot of "Swifties" on ATRL are just people who gave up on Britney/Gaga).

[Stankonia]

Taylor vs. Adele was even more boring because both parties are boring

[KKW]

12 minutes ago, Stankonia said:

Taylor vs. Adele was even more boring because both parties are boring

dddd 

[Soda Pop Queen]

It's the most boring and forced **** of all time. I mean, I don't get what is there really to discuss or substantially compare when they have very very little in common, both personally and professionally. In fact, they probably are the most different pair of pop girls to be pitted against one another in the media that I've even seen. Hell, the Gagz and Beyoncé comparisons made more sense and even that was out of bounds for a number of reasons. The pandemic did a number on people's brains. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Soda Pop Queen

[Kingdom]

42 minutes ago, Heartbreak Prince said:

It’s not really a stan war, it’s mostly Swifties putting Hives in their place and reminding them that this isn’t a group project. 

Spoken like a slave master. 

[Rotunda]

45 minutes ago, byzantium said:

Get my name out of your mouth with your trolling nonsense.  I’m not sure why you are so obsessed with me over nothing.  

Nobody’s trolling you, I saw your like on that post don’t get cute. 

[byzantium]

1 minute ago, Rotunda said:

Nobody’s trolling you, I saw your like on that post don’t get cute. 

Again your obsession with me is weird.  

[Rotunda]

Just now, byzantium said:

Again your obsession with me is weird.  

You know I’ve tried playing nice with you, even upvoting some of your posts despite that period of time where you were searching for things of mine to dislike, but just know I’m dragging you every chance I get now. 

[Jon Snow]

41 minutes ago, WeFoundTrouble said:

The black experience is a very distinct one. All of Taylor’s music resonates with my heart, truly. But The Gift? That resonates with my soul. All black music does. Taylor is my favorite artist for a lot of reasons but I don’t think she’ll ever truly reach my roots the way artists like Bey, Kendrick, and Janelle Monae for example, can.

This is interesting to me because Beyoncé was my favorite artist since I was 13 and her music never spoke to me until Renaissance. She was always singing about female empowerment and African American experience, none of which I relate to since I’m a white European twink. Of course there were songs and themes I would relate to, especially on her previous albums. However, her music never seemed to be meant for me in a way that I can say that her music as a whole represents me. With Renaissance it’s different. I connect to that on a deeper level  (because I’m gay duh). I was always able to feel connection to artists like Lady Gaga or Lana Del Rey, because we had a lot of things (feelings) in common. But I always looked up to Beyoncé for being so fierce and powerful, and yet so kind. It was evident that she stands up for issues that she’s passionate about. And she works so damn hard. I guess that’s the point of being inspired by someone. You learn from them how to do things you wish to be able to do. And I’ll be forever grateful to Beyoncé for helping me believe that I can do things and succeed, even though odds are not always in my favor. (I know that she doesn’t care about me and that she doesn’t know me. That’s how the things work. She’s not my friend.)

I felt that we had that in common when I read about you being able to connect to African American artists in the way you can’t connect to your favorite artist. Maybe I’m wrong. But if I’m right, it just goes on to show how we’re all alike and that these gifts are pointless. We should look for things and feelings that we share and celebrate them.